Theory: The 30 magic systems are actually 10.

[Josiah Bills]

I think that the thirty magic systems described by Brandon are simply ten magic systems with three different methods of accessing them. These three methods are the following: surgebinding, voidbinding, and fabrial science. Surgebinding gains you access to a one of the ten magics, with that power growing stronger with each KR oath you speak. To gain the power you must begin by acting with honor. I am not sure about Voidbinding, but here is my theory: the ten levels of voidbinding stack. When one first becomes a Voidbinder he gains the first magic, windrunning. As he progresses he gains access to a new magic system each time, while keeping the old ones. At the tenth level he possesses all ten of the magics. The problem with voidbinding would be that each magic alone is only as strong as a surgebinder without the oaths. This would make a first level voidbinder weaker than a Fully oathed KR. Gaining voidbinding would be a result of performing an extremely odious action, something seen by others and oneself as purely evil. To gain a level, one would have to do another odious action. Szeth gained his powers this way, making him a first level voidbinder. As for fabrial science, that is a bit different. Fabrial science works by gaining you access to a portion of a larger magic system. For example, you can make a soulcaster that soulcasts, or one which takes you to shadesmar, but not one that does both. A fabrial which causes a breeze could be accessing a portion of windrunning, or it could be using some other magic system. (we have yet to learn if the three lashings are the limits of Windrunning.)

[Yados]

Could be. We have very little to extrapolate from.

We're still in the training garden when it comes to magic on Roshar. It seems to be way more complicated than anything on Scadrial so it makes sense that we're only seeing a piece of it now before we eventually pull back and see the whole.

But as it is, a lot of what you're saying is baseless. Possible. Interesting sounding. Logical. Could be neat. But baseless. We just don't know enough.

If there are only ten magic systems (each with overlapping abilities) that are just accessed three ways, this magic system is actually less complicated than Mistborn's... which doesn't feel right.

Also: this theory does nothing to explain the magic fish. I'm pretty sure any unified theory of magic on Roshar needs to explain what's up with those magic fish.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Yados

[Lightflame]

Wait, do the fish actually work? Blunt thinks they do, but the black dude always dies first.

[Yados]

Wait, do the fish actually work? Blunt thinks they do, but the black dude always dies first.

Dunno. I asked BS about it in the Q&A thread and he was all "who doesn't like magic fish?"

And Blunt made it through all of Elantris, meaning that in that case the black dude died last.

[Lightflame]

Dunno. I asked BS about it in the Q&A thread and he was all "who doesn't like magic fish?"

And Blunt made it through all of Elantris, meaning that in that case the black dude died last.

*Galladon

[Kurkistan]

The magic fish are almost certainly the result of symbiotic bonds with Spren, like with chasmfiends.

[Cayden]

I wouldnt actually be surprised at all if there ended up being 40 different magic systems and not 30.

10 Old Magic Schools with Surgebinding Schools as their parallels.

opposing:

10 Voidbinding Schools with 10 XX Schools as their parallels

The reason I think this is that I think Szeth is a Windrunner 'mirror' from the unnamed XX school. As I dont think it is Old Magic, he would have said, and it certainly isnt Voidbinding. And BS has said he isnt surgebinding so it makes you wonder a bit.

We dont know much about Voidbinding or the Old Magics yet. But it could well be that they are both Invoked Magics, that you have to call upon and be empowered by an outside source.

With Surgebinding and XX as the genetic/fate based ones that are going to happen whether you invoke it or not.

I have absolutely no proof, a few speculations but that is about it. I lent out my hardcopy but my audio copy has the tables of magic in the back and it says about Surgebinding and Old Magic being contemporaries as such, and that their is speculation that there might be another group which is similar to voidbinding.

[Josiah Bills]

I wouldnt actually be surprised at all if there ended up being 40 different magic systems and not 30.

10 Old Magic Schools with Surgebinding Schools as their parallels.

opposing:

10 Voidbinding Schools with 10 XX Schools as their parallels

The reason I think this is that I think Szeth is a Windrunner 'mirror' from the unnamed XX school. As I dont think it is Old Magic, he would have said, and it certainly isnt Voidbinding. And BS has said he isnt surgebinding so it makes you wonder a bit.

We dont know much about Voidbinding or the Old Magics yet. But it could well be that they are both Invoked Magics, that you have to call upon and be empowered by an outside source.

With Surgebinding and XX as the genetic/fate based ones that are going to happen whether you invoke it or not.

I have absolutely no proof, a few speculations but that is about it. I lent out my hardcopy but my audio copy has the tables of magic in the back and it says about Surgebinding and Old Magic being contemporaries as such, and that their is speculation that there might be another group which is similar to voidbinding.

The problem with that is that you still have to be able to see those 40 as either 10 or 30 as well. Brandon has said that their are 10 magic systems if you look at it one way, or 30 if you look at it another. I am currently of the opinion that the old magic is something else entirely. Perhaps the Nightwatcher is a worldhopper with some sort of mind based magic.