42 replies to this topic

[firstRainbowRose]

As everyone I'm sure is aware, our servers suck. We've got some great members who have been willing to help us out so far, but the sad truth is that if we want the site to get to it's full potential we need to figure out a couple of things. One of those is how to continue to fund the site.

Right now, we're looking at a couple of different options. The most obvious option would be to sell t-shirts, and this is an option we're looking into. We're also considering doing things like 17S stickers/bumper stickers or other such things. The question I have for all of you is this: what would you want to see us sell, and how much would you be willing to pay? Keep in mind we wouldn't be able to do things like mistborn symbol t-shirts since those require a license from Brandon. However, custom designs (one that Josh suggested and I loved was a shirt that says "Ask me about Hoid") would be available.

Brandon has also suggested plushies. Personally I love this idea (and I think it's kind of been decided to start out as the monkquitor, but we were also thinking stuffed koloss might be fun), but again this depends on interest. Would anyone want to have a stuffy? Again, what would be the maximum you'd be willing to pay for something like this?

Another thing we're looking into is google adwords, or a partnership with amazon!fail (and then once we get shardcast going we're also looking at something with audible). I hate ads as much as the rest of you, but it's an option we have to consider. And sadly it's looking more and more like it's going to be a nessary evil. I can tell you though we'd try to make them as unobtrusive as possible. If we do put ads onto the site, is there a place you'd prefer to see them/not see them? (Mind you, there may be some places it'd be impossible to place them. It would also be the most practical to have them on every page, so that's probably what we would end up doing.)

If we do the t-shirts/plushies/any other products we'd probably end up doing a kickstarter (anyone who follows Howard has been hearing a lot about this program, but for more information you can visit http://www.kickstarter.com. What type of "thank you"s would you guys like to see for doing a donation?

Another idea that has been kicked around and most people don't seem to like is that of a premium membership. The thought was that you pay a small amount a year to get things like early access to news, special t-shirts, or something like that. I've heard people asking for it, and I've heard of other people shout loudly against it, with great arguments for both sides, so I thought I'd let you the people decide. Would most of you hate the idea? Love it? If you did want a pay content type thing, what types of things would you want to see being offered?

Is there anything else you would like to see us offer? Any other products you think it'd be cool to be able to pick up? Special offers you think we could do? (For example, even though it's not possible right now I had a guy at the release party suggest a thing where you sign up to have an account and deposit X into said account. From there any time a new book is released you automatically get a copy of the book sent to you, so you don't miss out on any of the new releases, but you also don't have to stay up on top of the latest news.) On the other side is there something you don't ever want to see us doing?

We love this community, and want to hear your opinions. Please, chime in and let us know what you think! Even if it's just a question, please let us know. The more feedback and ideas we have, the better understanding we will have of what direction to go in!

[Cuaiir]

Personally, I'd love a shirt or three and I'd be willing to pay up to $20 a piece for them (comprable to Inkwing's shirts, which are awesome). I even made a thing a while back that I was going to turn into a shirt for myself. Stickers, posters, that sort of thing... I'd decorate my room with them, but no idea on the cost. The monkquisitor is easily $20-$30, though I'm not a stuffed animal person.

Ads... ew. But, if they did become necessary, I'd say try to keep them unobtrusive. At the bottom of the page just above the "members reading this" area, or somewhere similar on the non-thread pages seems like a good choice. Premium membership is also in the 'ew' category (in my opinion), simply because I don't know what kind of thing we'd offer at a premium. Ninety percent of our content is theories, cosmere or otherwise, and to pay to have access to something like that seems... wrong.

Kickstarter rewards would depend on the goal amount. I think if any one person pledges more than half the goal, they should be considered for staff - that's some serious dedication. 5% could merit a free 17th Shard shirt, assuming that the donation more than offsets the costs of the shirt. 10% could be a plushy and a shirt, if those get made. But I'm just tossing out random number here.

My thoughts on the matter. Take them as you will.

[Shivertongue]

One thing about shirts and plushies and things along those lines... these are already designed. I've had many for several months to a year now, and every so often I whip up another one when I'm bored. Naturally, not everyone of them could be made and sold, because that might end up costing too much for us, and if we find out that demand for one is almost nonexistent, then, well... yeah.

So, once we have everything arranged (because it looks like a business license will be required for us to sell anything, or get ads) I plan to post the various designs to see which ones people like the most. Some of them will be standard - 17th Shard shirts and the like, with just the logo - while others will be more specialized. And no, I won't tell you what those will be. Not until we're ready to actually start making them.

My vote, thus, is for merchandising and ads. I'm firmly against any kind of paid membership, as it creates a sort of 'class system' between paid members and non-paid members, and the idea of this site is that we're all fans of equal standing. Excluding Admin, of course, who are your overlords and have the right to hemalurgically spike you whenever the whim takes us.

[Eerongal]

I'd be up for ads and merchandising as well.

Merchandising is always nice, plus it would be neat if we could work out some official merchandising stuff with brandon to do some official stuff.

Ads are kinda par for the course, honestly, which is why i accept them as a necessary evil. Honestly, if you aren't used to ads, then you don't use the internet that much. They're fairly ubiquitous these days, and I can live with them if its for the good of the site.

As I've stated before, i would certainly be against any sort of "premium membership" on the grounds that it does create a sort of rift between free and premium users, which isn't something we want when the whole point of this is the "community" aspect.

[discipleofhoid]

I don't know how feasible this would be for this site but Jim Butchers fansite has a store section with his books and other items the he likes. It is just an Amazon/Barnes and Noble referral link. They aren't really selling the items but they get the referral profits from Amazon when people use the links to buy.

Here is what their's looks like: http://www.jim-butcher.com/store(External Link)

For this site you could add links to all of Brandon's works plus the list of books that he has recommended. It seems that that is a question asked at just about every signing. I don't think it would generate enough income to maintain the site but with the other ideas it could help. You might just put a donate button up too. (Is there one of those? If so I have missed it.)

[Eerongal]

You might just put a donate button up too. (Is there one of those? If so I have missed it.)

The "about" page has one at the bottom.

[KChan]

Chaos is actually in the process of building pages about Brandon's books, and we're working on getting Amazon affiliate links put up. It just takes a lot of time to build all that up.

As for the staff suggestion, promotions have been - and always will be - made based on non-monetary contributions to the site and how well we think new staff members will work with those we already have. Money isn't a factor, period. It's simply not fair to those dedicated members who can't afford to buy their way on, so to speak, and I don't even want to get into the doors that would open for drama and what have you. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

As you already know, Mi'ch, I'm all for merchandising and the like.

[Chaos]

Cuaiir, I don't think you need to worry too much about the placement of ads. There's very few places I can even place ads site-wide, and it looks like for the most part, they will be near the bottom. There certainly won't be sidebars of ads.

Thing is, when I tell my local Bozeman friends that 17S gets 1.5 million hits in a month they are flabbergasted that there aren't ads. It's hard to judge how much revenue they would actually give, but it should be good. But really, they will be nice and match with the site design.

discipleofhoid - Books pages are in the works, and we will totally use those.

I also don't like the idea of memberships. Plushies and merchandising, though, sound awesome.

[Comatose]

I agree with what has been said so far, I think. Merchandise=good. Ads=okay, especially if there is a way to focus on ads that have content that is somewhat related to the site(like sites that deal with fantasy, books/publishing, etc). Amazon books should work well in this regard (this means everyone who orders books online should start ordering them from here as soon as they can). I am pretty firmly against premium membership, for the reasons that are listed above.

[KChan]

Yeah, I'm against premium membership as well, though I like the idea of giving rewards for people who donate certain amounts, if possible.

[Catalyst21]

ok, 2 things...


#1 if there are adds, there should be premium membership. Premimum membership should consist of.... being able to access 17th shard add free....

#2 how much is needed to run the site (say for a one year period)? can you provide us a itemized list?

[Shivertongue]

ok, 2 things...


#1 if there are adds, there should be premium membership. Premimum membership should consist of.... being able to access 17th shard add free....

That would, for the most part, completely negate the effect of the ads. Second, the issue with premium membership that I have is that it splits the community into two parts, essentially introducing a classist system. I do not care for such things. Secondly, having people pay $20 a year or whatever just to not see ads is pretty lame.

[PeterAhlstrom]

Just do ads. They're easy to ignore.

[Joe ST]

I wouldnt mind ads, if only because I have adblock+...

I like the idea of premium membership, but agree that there's little that you could premiumize. And there's always the elitisim that comes with being in the 'upper echelons' of websociety XD

I'd definitely might buy merchandising, and am always up for donating what I can.

[KChan]

Adblock plus sort of defeats the purpose of the ads, though.

[Eerongal]

Adblock plus sort of defeats the purpose of the ads, though.

yeah, but not everyone uses them. I dont, i just ignore ads. And obviously ads are profitable since some sites do actually turn a profit from them. The only time i've ever found myself even worrying about ads is when i go to download something from some sites and there's like 5 ads that say "Download now!" and i have no idea which is the right link to actually download.

[zas678]

I agree with what has been said here. Ads would be fine, and although I don't think that there would be much of a market for the insta-book for a monthly cost thing, I don't think it would be too much trouble to order 10ish (?) copies for those people that decide they'd be in for it. The thing about shirts- and I'm not too worried, since I've seen a lot of the work that the graphics design people have done here- I want them to be cool. I like to wear my shirts and have them look pretty fashionable for even those people who don't know who Brandon Sanderson is (What? Those people exist? The blasphemy!). But that's my two cents.

Oh! Idea! Another option (Though we'd have to talk to Brandon/Peter about this one) is to print out nice copies of the Brandonothology (Or Annotations, but I feel more squeamish about that one) and sell those for about $5 more than it costs us to make it and send it. We make it clear when we sell it that you can get it other places for free, but that these copies will look pretty nice. Plus, what's more proving of fandom than to have 300+ pages of behind-the-scene action?

[Eerongal]

Oh! Idea! Another option (Though we'd have to talk to Brandon/Peter about this one) is to print out nice copies of the Brandonothology (Or Annotations, but I feel more squeamish about that one) and sell those for about $5 more than it costs us to make it and send it. We make it clear when we sell it that you can get it other places for free, but that these copies will look pretty nice. Plus, what's more proving of fandom than to have 300+ pages of behind-the-scene action?

That's actually not a terrible idea. Do something like making a "Brandon Encyclopedia" or something that could be put together (and maybe even bound one day) that could be sold.

[Kurkistan]

I think we should just go with ads. We could still sell T-shirts and whatnot for discretionary funds (for giveaways, events, the need to pay someone actual money to fix egregious problems, etc.) while relying upon ads for day-to-day costs.

This way there is a solid stream of revenue coming in and we can still implement cool ideas like a bound Ars Arcananum without worrying about having to sell X-copies just to make ends-meet, or artificially needing to fill a "cool ideas" quota every month.

[darniil]

I would love to have a pewter-symbol pewter stein, but I imagine that's outside the bounds of what's possible here.