JesterLavorre

On the point of explaining the atium change to only book readers being clunky, I don’t actually think it’s too bad. I imagine a scene where Wax and a Kandra come upon a bead of pure atium and Wax is like “Is that… atium?” And the Kandra says, “Yes, but something is different about it. It’s… purer than I’ve ever seen it before, even in the Final Empire. This could be very dangerous, Wax, even more than we thought.” And I feel like that is enough explanation where people will get it and just be like, “oh, it’s atium but supercharged,” and that’s fine.

RoW spoilers:

Okay, another thought after re-listening to this episode. Not sure if it’s plot significant, but it’s an interesting thematic connection at least that neither of the two people who we see having the title “he who quiets” can hear the rhythms, which definitely plays along the quietness theme.

Glad you liked my limericks! I was planning on you just picking the one you liked best and only reading that one, but this was much better! 
Fair point on the last one and that character not being super dead. I didn’t think of that.

RoW spoilers:

Random thought: we know Moash got his title “He Who Quiets” after killing a herald permanently. But heralds couldn’t die permanently before this. What if El got the title be killing the person who was meant to be a herald before Taln?

4 hours ago, King Krooked said:

I just wanted to thank Grey for saying some things that definitely needed to be said about the anger of the oppressed being villainized, and how there really aren't many differences between "good lighteyes" and "bad lighteyes". She made a lot of valid points from very nuanced angles, and as a POC, I wanted her to know that her views were very appreciated.

Same! I was happily surprised by some of the really interesting discussion around this, which was something I had never really thought about before.

One interesting observation is that normal Truthwatcher spren are mist, gaseous water, and corrupted Truthwatcher spren are like snowflakes, solid water. Just a random thought I had.

Okay, quick theory about voidbinding inspired from this episode.

What if voidbinding arises from an interaction between Honor’s investiture binding Odium and Odium’s investiture. People with a connection to both Honor and Odium can Voidbind by highjacking that connection and channeling Odium’s investiture through Honor’s connection to him. You are literally binding the void to your will.

Even if that’s not true, I really think Voidbinding needs both Honor and Odium connection to work. Thus the “Void” (Odium) and “binding” (Honor). This is why there are ten levels of Voidbinding, not nine.
This lines up with possible Voidbinders we know of. The corrupted KR have both Honor and Oduim investiture. Additionally, this could be why Renarin has normal regrowth. The surge is too close to Cultivation for it to work for Voidbinding. Maybe a corrupted Windrunner would have two void surges.

Lastly, this also makes sense that Voidbinding originated from the Unmade, according to some sources. If at least some of the Unmade were Bondsmith level spren of Honor before being Unmade, they are now a combination of those two shards.

Also, random thing that I just realized could be nothing or could be a major plot twist later on. Adhesion is supposedly “Honor’s truest surge,” but it’s also the “surge of pressure in a vacuum.” Odium is the Void. Void as in a completely empty space. A vacuum. Syl even says he “sucks in emotion.” Like pressure in a vacuum. I could see adhesion being a surge of Odium.

20 minutes ago, Marethyu316 said:

Vin says in Well of Ascension that they ended up destroying the Lord Ruler's bracers to get out the little bit of atium that was in them. I think that the legend of the Bands being the Lord Ruler's was a big red herring that Kelsier set up to distract people.

Ah, all right. Forgot about that.

If Kel had the Bands of Mourning, is it possible TLR had some knowledge about Hemalurgy stored in his copperminds? That would give Kelsier a big advantage in figuring out what he does so quickly.

8 hours ago, CarTorSan said:

I actually think that the trick that allows Seons to exist out of Sel is something in the lines of what was speculated on the Shardcast: it's more about the box than the Seon itself. My theory after listening to them is that the box is an advanced model of the box we saw on

  Reveal hidden contents

Mistborn era 2

: it must consist on some sort of feruchemical device that allows the Seon to operate outside of Sel, maybe retaining its Connection to Sel (something similar to the southern language medallions or Dalinar's and Venli's hability to Connect to others, but working backwards) and also made of some aluminium foil to protect everything in the insides.

 

I find this specially plausible with Thaidakar's knowledge. What do you think about this??

Yeah. I definitely think that’s possible. I’m just not sure why the seon can leave the box, though. Both explanations work.

Also, there’s probably a non-box way to take Seons off world, just for writerly reasons it would make sense for Brandon to have a way to have radiant spren able to move around freely. Again, the box explanation could still work with that, I just think there is another solution that will be found in the future.

The radiant could also be a sleepless. “Something Frightful” sounds like a pile of bugs to me. I still think a singer is more likely, but just a possibility to consider.

ROW Spoilers:

4 hours ago, Trutharchivist said:

Didn't listen to the Shardcast yet, but it's actually the exact other way around, I believe. After all, Selish magic doesn't work off world.

I’m mostly talking about getting off-world, not actually using powers off world. In that I agree with you. You can’t use selish magics off world.

Although, with Seons, it could be different because they are investiture, as opposed to needing an outside source (maybe).

My theory on why Seons can travel between worlds is because the power is in the CR. That may mean that Connection (a spiritual concept) restricts movement less for Selish investiture.

My weird theory about the Singers’ betrayal of the spren is that it had to do with turning Ba-Ado-Mishram into an unmade. She’s obviously important to the spren, and she was a high princess of the voidbringers. Maybe she gave the singers forms of power not of Odium before she was unmade.

ROW spoilers

This was the first time it occurred to me that we know that the afterlife on Roshar is weird, and that lines up really well with Odium’s plan of training an army of humans to fight for him if he’s keeping their souls around in the cognitive or spiritual realm.

RoW Spoilers:

I can’t believe I didn’t think of this before.

Crazy formless theory:

We know there’s unmade influence in Shallan’s family (or, at least, it’s implied). What if Shallan is an unmade and formless is the unmade personality that she’s suppressed.

I feel like, while the scope of your perception can impact how powerful or wide-ranging a Dawnshard’s effect is, I think amount of investiture is more important. 
My interpretation of this is that the investiture you hold executes the command, so the amount of investiture you hold impacts how powerful the effect is. The scope of your perception also influences it, I think, but to a lesser extent. Any random human with enough investiture could have-say-shattered the plains, but they could also destroy the entire Cosmere with enough investiture, even without the awareness of a shard.

I think how shardic awareness plays in is that it effects your ability to direct the command to effectively do the exact thing you want. Think of it this way. If a human surgebinder with a ton of stormlight grabbed a dawnshard and said “shatter the plains”, the plains would just be shattered how the human vaguely intended. Meanwhile, if a Shard tried the same thing, they know the bigger picture. They can say “Shatter the plains”, knowing where every mineral deposit and fault line in the plains is, and have the scope of understanding to know how to direct the dawnshard more precisely.

I think of it kind of like Rashek at the well of ascension. Whenever a human with a human’s scope of awareness uses that kind of power, they will mess things up and not do exactly what was intended. If a someone with the knowledge of a shard (or a bunch of religions’ histories) tries to do the same thing, however, they will understand how to more effectively get the outcome they want. To use awakening terms, they can better visualize the command.

Watching this, I feel like we can maybe break down most cognitive shadows with bodies into two elements:

Power/Fuel. Some investiture which keeps the CS around and makes up their spirit web. Most seem to need a constant supply of it. For Returned, they need breaths. Kelsier, the Heralds, and the Fused are all fueled directly by a Shard.

"Glue". This glues a CS to its body. In Kelsier's case, this seems to be a Hemalurgic Spike. For returned, this is their divine breath. In many cases (returned, heralds, fused) this seems to do double duty and also serves as a fuel.

This is just the way I think about cognitive shadows, but, if it has some truth to it, why do Returned die if they lose their body? They should still be fueled by the breaths they have. Mabey returned who have been killed actually hang around in the cognitive realm for a whole week (or however long it takes for the breath they have accumulated to wear out) before transitioning to the beyond?

Also, on returned children, I like the theory that the child is always stillborn for whatever reason, but is then artificially returned somehow. Or, maybe Endowment has some motivation for always returning the God King's children.