Child of Hodor

34 minutes ago, StormDad said:

I’m not sure it will be as simple as winning or losing. Or breaking the pact and releasing odium. I don’t think odium will be the big bad for books 6-10. This book has got to set up some of the conflict for those. I think that outside players or cultivation or something will change things up in a way we can’t see yet.

Yeah, I'm expecting a secret third thing to happen with the climax of this book. I expect more shards to be involved in the back half as well. At least Valor.  When Taravangian ascends we get this weird paragraph on the definition of Bravery which sounds a lot like a shard description. 

Did Valor give Taravangian a stealthy nudge here? I'm not sure why this paragraph is in the book other than to hint at Valor's involvement. Not sure what to make of it, but a planet that has constant wars would attract a shard of valor I would think. 

1 hour ago, Heilven said:

I would not say adolin is well adjusted. His issues are less obvious than the others we've seen, but a big part of that is because of the nature of his issues. I would not call him well adjusted

I suppose I was thinking of him relative to Kaladin and Shallan and how he is able to consistently be there for them when they are having a hard time. 

Now that I think about it he did murder a guy and recently learned his dad accidently burned his mom to death while intentionally burning an entire city and he really hasn't dealt with either thing emotionally. Given all that I think you are correct well-adjusted is not the right thing to say about him 

In addition to having a deadeye blade he’s also well-adjusted psychologicly. Szeth, Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Renarin, Lift, Teft have, uh, some difficulties that seem to be a part of what attracts radiant Spren. 
 

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BusinessCress

In Stormlight Archive, all three main characters, Dalinar, Shallan and Kaladin, suffer from various mental health issues. Is that a normal psychological condition for all Radiants or the lead three is an extreme example of how people break?

Brandon Sanderson

I am very interested in mental health, and the way that we--as human beings--react to and interpret the world around us in different ways. This is a theme of the Stormlight books, but it's going to take a lot of work to do it justice--and I want to approach it from different directions. So yes, it's a theme, and these sorts of issues were common for Knights Radiant.

But I'd point out that they are also common themes for being human. And one of the correlations between orders of Knights Radiant is people who overcome, persist, and push through very difficult trials.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 4, 2018)

Odium wins the contest, tries to get out of the deal by using his leverage over Fused Dalinar. But he's now Fused/Herald/Honor Dalinar who has modified the Oathpact to apply to Odium. Dalinar and Taravangian stuck on Braize together debating philosophy endlessly or until the back half. 

Alternatively, Odium is split in two and Dalinar/Honor and Cultivation Ascend to a piece of it. Really shakes things up for the back half. We don't know a partial Shard ascension is possible, but we don't know that it isn't. 

I think Shinovar gets destroyed towards the end. Szeth will be looking down on it crying as the ocean rushes in and it will fulfill this death rattle: 

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A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears.  https://coppermind.net/wiki/Death_Rattle/list#cite_note-The_Way_of_Kings-chapter-3-epigraph-24

On 5/6/2024 at 8:43 AM, The Sibling said:

I really don't think that Kaladin should die. I feel like it would cheapen some of his growth towards learning that he too needs to be protected. Not all heroes need to sacrifice their lives I guess. I do kind of get the vibe. that Syl is going die and I know it is absolutely going to destroy me. 

I agree. Him finding a reason to want to live is more what his arc is about. Giving him death like he often wants would not be as big a sacrifice in a way. Having to live is the bigger challenge for him. 
 

It would be really cruel if Syl died and Kaladin did not. 

16 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Prudence is not a shard

That’s why I said “along the lines of” it’s a synonym of Wisdom which the WoB I linked to said is thiiiiiis close to the last shard name.

Also this WoB says Prudence sounds an awful lot like a Shard.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/398/#e13231

48 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

This also might help explain some of the confusion over heartbeats. It has been super unclear if Shallan could summon her semi-deadeye blade with zero heartbeats. However, if Shallan was actually thinking about her mother's honourblade instead of a semi-deadblade, that might make more sense? 

I could also see Chana telling Lin Davar to put her honourblade in the safe if she were ever to die (stopping it from being stolen or summoned by stone shamans)
 

I looked at all the major times she summons a blade and there is nothing obvious. Chana's blade has a huge hole in the center, but nothing like that is described although sometimes it's simply described a "silvery" shardblade which is all of them. 

Yeah I was thinking about the heartbeat thing. When she kills Tyn in WoR Ch. 34 she thinks to herself she doesn't need 10 heartbeats, but then thinks she needs more time. The blade she draws is described as silvery which is not helpful. She could simply be thinking of how Testament used to not need a heartbeat count but now does. 

In the chasm in Ch. 72 it's pretty clearly Pattern, it has a pattern on it that glows in the dark both Shallan and Kaladin remark on it. Kaladin touches it and it doesn't scream like a dead eyed blade. Nothing about a big hole in the center.

When she activates the Oathgate in Ch. 86 she calls pattern by name right before the blade appears. It's probably him. 

In OB and RoW she is almost always undercover or in Shadesmar where the spren blades can't be summoned and she never summons a third blade. Adolin teaches her some of the sword forms early in OB but we don't get much of a description of her blade there. 

Still, I wouldn't be surprised if she had the honorblade. Even some her "Truths" are lies like the big reveal that she killed her mother has Shallan talking to Pattern as if he was the blade there. Is her name even Shallan? Can't trust her. 

43 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

If Shallan took the sword in the safe....does Shallan ALSO have an Honourblade? 

Probably, triple wield!! It might be worth looking back at every time she’s summoned a blade and compare it to the blade Gavilar was examining in the prologue. 

There is only one unnamed Shard and evidence is mounting that it is something along the lines of Wisdom or Prudence or a similar concept. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/535/#e16590

The Shards we've encountered in the books get a flowery description of their intent "it was a perfect musical note held forever" "it was the most intimate embrace of lovers" etc. That got me thinking how Prudence / Wisdom might be a little lame in a funny way and that it would be fun to riff on what the unmet shards like Whimsy's flowery descriptions are. 

Prudence: I am the knowledge gleaned from the mistakes of others, I am the meditating hermit on the mountain top,  I am looking both ways before crossing the street, I am waiting an hour after eating before getting in the pool!

Whimsy: I am commitment to the bit ... until I don't feel like it anymore, I am every shout of "YOLO" ever uttered, I am the sock that catches the wind, I am the flower that waters you, I am so EXTRA!! 

Invention:  I am the curiosity of every scholar,  I am the urge to tinker just a little more, I am boredom with the same old thing, I am always in the garage working you know this is my "me" time how am I supposed to get any work done with these constant interruptions I am on the verge a breakthrough here I can feel it. No that's not a colander on my head it's a special device!!!

Btw in my head these are all read by Don Pardo the longtime SNL opening credits guy https://youtu.be/_6YXwShVi04?si=m7-GEQeFD2PeiEnf

22 hours ago, Treamayne said:

WoB Referenced (Slight Spoiler):

  Hide contents

Brandon Sanderson

We needed to come up with a name that is a little bit different than just Dragonsteel [for the convention], and we spent forever arguing. We finally landed on something; it does have Cosmere applications. We're just gonna call it Dragonsteel Nexus. There's no big convention named Nexus in fantasy/science fiction. 

C2E2 2024 (April 27, 2024)

 

So is it Dragonsteel Nexus Convention or Dragonsteel Nexus? I think he's saying it's the latter, but it is still a convention named Dragonsteel Nexus. 

If they didn't like Dragonsteel Convention I don't think they solved anything with this.  It's still the name of the company and then a name for a place where things/people meet. They just made it slightly unclear the nature of the thing by taking out Convention and putting in Nexus. 

Whatever. 

On 5/3/2024 at 9:25 AM, Argenti said:

The Double Shard is unlikely, as it's kinda a cop-out. Way to simple.
 

 

*Arcade game announcer voice* TRRRIPPLE SHARD!!!

Or what if Odium gets torn apart and both Honor and Cultivation merge with a piece? Dalinar is highly connected to Odium and Cultivation took a piece of Dalinar so she has some Connection to Odium. Ascending to a part of a splintered Shard may or may not be a thing that can happen. It would really shake things up for the back half. 

Great chart! This gets really tough with Shards like Whimsy.

An endowment is already a gift, I think Honor + Endowment needs to be something else. Like Inheritance where property is passed down based on a code of laws and a will. Sounds like a boring Shard . 

Mercy + Ruin = Nihilism. End all suffering in the Cosmere by killing everyone. 

Odium + Virtuosity = Art Criticism. Giving the Cosmere 2 thumbs down. 

5 minutes ago, Aredor said:

I think Nale got his 500 years ago... feels like OB would have the answer. 

In any case, Nale was going around butchering Radiants long before his chat with Gavilar. 

Yeah, you're right. He doesn't say when he got it back, but when Nin-son-god shows it off to Szeth in OB ch. 108 Szeth thinks that "once long ago it had been 9. Then this one had vanished" 

Doesn't give a time frame but "long ago it had been 9" makes it sound like it was before Szeth was born the last time they had all 9.  

17 minutes ago, The Stick said:

Aren't you forgetting about Nale's blade, which he reclaimed early on. Because your nine blades would imply them all except Taln's.

1 minute ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I believe Nale only got his after his chat with Gavilar.

Before Szeth was kicked out there were 8 honorblades left. In WoR Taravangian interlude Tarvangian tries to explain away Kaladin's surgebinding by saying another Honorblade vanished. Szeth says "One of the other 7?". 

I assumed it was Nale's missing, I'll have to check the text though. If it is Chana's missing that makes my theory more plausible. Otherwise she had to go get her blade back after Szeth was made Truthless, but before the prologue. I'm not sure how long a timeframe that is. 

On 5/3/2024 at 12:21 PM, teknopathetic said:

I find it interesting that Shallan opened up the safe to get her blade. Does ... does that make sense? Shallan went to the garden to go meet Testament AFTER her father put Testament/mother's soul in the safe.

So in terms of timeline assuming a blade was in the safe (and not a herald-soul)
1. Shallan kills her mother with the blade.
2. Lin Davar quickly puts the blade in the safe.
3. Shallan goes to the garden to meet with Testament
4. Testament manifests in the garden
5. Shallan unbonds Testament after a conversation.
6. Testament returns to the safe somehow?

Does that make a lot of sense? Did Testament agree to go to the safe after being unbonded and then became a deadeye slowly after? Or does a deadeye blade return to the last place it was located in the physical realm? Can Testament be a blade in the safe and also go meet Shallan in the garden? Or was there even really a blade in the safe at all? Did Shallan actually see a blade in the safe or did she find nothing and remember that she had the blade the whole time - but then forgot that? 

I am so suspicious of all of this. I still think Shallan's mother's soul was actually in that safe like Shallan says originally in WoR. If the soul were to be in there, then maybe Shallan released her mother's soul when Shallan opened the safe, and that is why Taln returns a few months later (enough time for Chana to break and cause all this) 

You're right it doesn't make sense as presented. 

What if Chana's blade dropped when she died and that was the sword and what Shallan thought of as her mom's soul? That could still fit with events as we understand them. When Szeth was made Truthless all 9 blades were in Shinovar, 8 when he left, but he's already Truthless at this point Chana could have gotten her blade. 

As to any inconsistencies in Shallan's flashbacks / memories, well Shallan lies all the time, especially to herself. 

On 5/5/2024 at 5:04 PM, alder24 said:

Yes, that's a Bondsmith power. The Stormfather was seeing something else and was referring to what he saw, he wasn't talking about the perpendicularity Dalinar made. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

Let's say that the Stormfather and Odium were seeing something in Dalinar that, perhaps, the average person watching even who is knowledgeable about Surges would not completely understand... But he will be able to use that power and Bondsmiths in the past have used that same power.

Footnote: Brandon clarified that he might have been unintentionally misleading in his answers to this question during his Stormlight 4 Update 1.
Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

 

It feels like an error in the text then. Stormfather is surprised Dalinar can renew spheres, questions it and then the next thing he says is this never happened in the past. 

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A direct conduit to the Spiritual Realm the Stormtather said. You renew spheres, Dalinar? 

"We are Connected."

I was bonded to men before. This never happened. 

Oathbringer Ch. 119 Unity

So either Brandon didn't realize how this text would read or he changed his mind. We can handwave it as Stormfather is weird and we know from Wind and Truth prologue

...

Back to the original topic, did they use the Spiritual Realm like it's the Room of Requirement in Hogwarts? Shallan will have to think really hard about what she needs and open the way to the Spiritual realm (either by herself somehow or with help) and the right gemstone will be there? 

Here are my current thoughts on it. I feel stronger about what the unknown Dawnshards are than what Shard fits with them.  Make things, break things, modify existing things and (in the darkness) bind them. 

tWoK epigraphs gave us a Dawnshard that can bind all things. Dawnshard novella gave us CHANGE. 

Semi-Canon Dragon Steel Prime spoilers

Why Mercy in the Destroy category? Mercy kill and speaking to Mercy creeped Harmony out. 

On 4/15/2024 at 8:12 PM, Nikaro said:

What do you think Hoid's ultimate goal is?

I remember seeing people saying that his goal will be to reform and become Ado, but what else theories are there?

I won’t pull the full quote but in tWoK ch. 54 he asks Dalinar basically “hey if you tear a man apart and put him back together would he still be the same man?”

Which points toward putting Ado back together. I don’t think he wants to become Ado. He seems more selfless than that in his weird way. He was offered a Shard and turned it down. He doesn’t seem to want to be god. 

Dalinar loses the Contest ... BUT he repairs Honor enough to Ascend and Ishar has helped him become part a of the Oathpact as a Herald.  Ishar mentioned he could help Dalinar modify the Oathpact in RoW.  The Fused were trapped by the Oathpact despite not being a party to it. It was only Honor and the Heralds that made the pact.  What if Honor WAS a Herald and he essentially made a pact with himself to trap both Honor and Odium on Braize?!?!?!  We already have a Shard making a promise to its own vessel (Odium to Taravangian, although pre-Ascension).

If Dalinar loses he becomes a Fused so he'd be Herald/Fused/Vessel. Dalinar goes to Braize as a fused (assume the Everstorm has been removed from Roshar) and is like "I'm a Fused, but I'm also a Herald, oops!  I, a Fused, am stuck here so long as I, a Herald, am here. What a shame! Oh and I modified the Oathpact to apply to you since I am also now Honor. As cognitive shadows trapped cognitive shadows now Shard traps Shard. Take a seat Taravangian we are going to be here a while." 

The end state is Dalinar and Taravangian stuck together debating with each other endlessly. A call back to their last meeting in RoW where Dalinar says he hopes one day the two of them will sit together and talk again like they used to. 

On 4/29/2024 at 3:11 AM, Forts Board said:

I think the Child Champion theory is a good one, but also, logistically, I doubt Brandon will want to wait 1000 Rosharan years and get to Stormlight 6 and say, "Oh, here's Jasnah, still chillin out, just waiting for Odium to come back." 

I think other Shards will come to the system in the back 5 and it won't just be Odium vs. Honor/Cultivation. 

On 4/1/2024 at 6:08 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

At the time Prime was written, the Lords like Aronack were going to be the ones killing Adonalsium, the idea of the Vessels being former mortals came later. My guess right now is it could have to do with what Aronack talks to Doruse about:

Perhaps there was something bad coming that Adonalsium was going to allow, and his kids would turn against him over his inaction? Aronack and perhaps Selonis probably take advantage of the situation for power and worship, Ethain seems like he'd want to defend the Sho Del whom he views as his children, Doruse may want to save people after sitting and watching for so long, and who knows about Rafete.

I've long thought this is the motivation for the Shattering ... or the stated reason, some just wanted power as Khriss says in Secret History. 

 https://coppermind.net/wiki/Shattering

As for Avatars I wonder if the "gods" that made the different species of humanoids are Avatars. 

On 4/8/2024 at 12:24 PM, Shardmancer said:

Highlights:

• Hoid: His presence is always captivating, even in his early days. His quirky wit endears him to readers.

On 3/29/2024 at 11:34 PM, AonEne said:

I'm so glad everyone can now read this book, it's terrible and I love it. This is the book that got me to really fall in love with Hoid. Also Ryalla! My girl! And Frost! And Jerick, a disaster (affectionate). 

As someone who usually finds Hoid annoying if he's in a book too much I have to say this is the most I've enjoyed Hoid, ever, outside of some Hoid+Design stuff but that's mostly about how the delightful Design plays off him. 

His personality is basically the same. Same types of jokes, same jabs at a Sadeas-esque noble. Same running off to do other stuff. Same telling downtrodden heroes stories to influence them. I just find him much more engaging. It's nice to see him not know things and be afraid more. He's usually incredibly smug giving cryptic, know-it-all answers to questions. 

It's sort of nice to already know the basics of the magic system going in "Oh this is Division. This is Lightweaving" otherwise I would be much more bored or frustrated with the "learn the magic system" sections. They aren't done as well as they would be later. 

On 3/30/2024 at 2:08 AM, Eternal Khol said:

Edit: B$ has also said that a coupe characters from Dragonsteel Prime were in Aether of Night... I wonder who it is

LOL. I forgot about B-Money. 

This is an excellent theory on the first race being Dragons, I hadn't thought of that. I think the secret has to do with the nature of Dragonsteel. I don't have any thoughts on what the secret is. 

On 4/1/2024 at 5:56 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Supposedly there are only two, but then in the introduction Brandon instead says one so he might just be forgetting the number lol. Frost does lump her abilities in with those of Topaz and Jerick (at least from what I've read, haven't had time to go through it fully yet but did look at the search results for a bunch of terms like "microkinesis"), even though they work differently, so her also being one would make sense.

How would that work with the idea that the cast "unwittingly become" Dawnshards, especially since Hoid's already got his immortality and inability to harm? It seems more likely to me that the topaz contains one (we know the title "bearer of the first gem" is related) and the "source of power" Doruse was watching over that Jerick somehow got his power from is another, personally.

Yeah are at least two in here because Brandon has mentioned that multiple characters unwittingly become Dawnshards. Topaz is already one or has one on his hand anyways, but he doesn't seem to understand it. You might say Wit is unwittingly a Dawnshard 

Exactly how Dawnshards work in this semi-canon might be a bit different from what he has settled on 25 years later, but Topaz clearly has the same type of Dawnshard that canon Hoid and Sigzil had. Can't destroy and encourages life and growth of life. 

On 4/2/2024 at 12:58 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

That fits what he says in tWoK as well, that it "became completely worthless for my wearing it".

Great pull!

On 4/15/2024 at 3:34 AM, Arteth Chris said:

I was wondering about Ryalla, but I think two is right. Another clue that might fit with that is Wat's castemark especially given who he turns out to be.

We're not told what kind of stone, but if the two dawnshards started out as a gem and a tree, then might there be some significance to the priests wearing a combination of the two around their necks? Life and death, creation and destruction. A bit like the yin and yang symbol. That would point to two again though, rather than three. 

That's a great idea. 

On 4/27/2024 at 8:02 AM, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Infact theory time, since spiritual realm has both the past and the future, this will be how Brandon gives us info about shallan's past without dedicated flashbacks. 

She will have a set of quick visions of the past and the future , like Rey touching the lightsaber in the Force Awakens, and we will have a bunch of theory fodder for the next 5 years. Chana can be revealed as shallan's mom, while also teasing about future Shallan and ghostblood fights in the cosmere.

Great idea! 

On 4/27/2024 at 8:30 AM, alder24 said:

And lastly we have confirmation that Shallan draws upon Fortune when drawing, which wasn't surprising, we knew from WoBs that Shallan fiddles with Connections and SR, but what was interesting is that Kalak for some reason seemed to be not surprised by that, even expecting that. Weird. Does he know about something we/she doesn't know (Chana)?

Love to see Maya speak so much, she's really getting better  

Yes, love that Maya is talking now!

When first discussing Shallan being able to sketch the spiritual realm, Kalak implies that it may be because she bonded two spren. Which of course means it is absolutely not because she bonded two spren. That's one of Brandon's favorite tricks: have a character present an assumption as fact early on. 

Kalak should know that Chana had a kid (assuming she did which I do). We know the Skybreakers were involved with Shallan's mom and her eldest brother, Nale runs the Skybreakers, Kalak and Nale have hung out since that time you'd think it would come up.

Also, multiple Heralds mention that Ishar is the only one still sane (incorrect) which means they've talked to him and the other heralds in order to comment on all their mental states. These Heralds talk to each other a lot more than they said they would. Another promise not kept by these guys. 

Ever since Disney came out with Galaxy's Edge and the starcruise hotel (now defunct) I thought about what Sanderson world I would want a park to immerse me in. The problem is almost all his worlds are nightmares to live in. Perpetual storms, constant ash fall, a sun that burns you to death in seconds, or they are just Earthlike. 

Windrunner ride that is indoor skydiving or one of those rides that sling shot you around. They could simulate a high storm experience by having people go through a wind tunnel with buckets of what being thrown at them 

Bridge crew simulator. Where one team carries a bridge and another team shoots tennis balls at them like in American Gladiators.

On 4/14/2024 at 4:39 PM, AonEne said:

It's a theory floating around, but hard to say for sure if this is what Dragonsteel's doing - running a theme park is pretty different from their current wheelhouse but maybe?? I definitely think the land around there is where they're building their events center. 

If Dragonsteel does get involved it sounds like it would be in partnership with the people that currently own the park so they will at least be partnered with people who know how to run a park.