Trickonometry

I'd tentatively say Truthwatcher, if only because he seems willing to lie for a cause. If it turns out Truthwatchers "must never lie" or something like that, obviously my idea goes down the drain. Lirin pulling off the cover over the goblet of spheres to shed light on his would be assailants during one of Kaladin's flashbacks in tWoK does sound awfully Truth-y to me...

So far, from what we've seen, the surges do NOT combine to create "super surges," though we HAVE seen cool synergies - and I think that's an important distinction. Windrunners have had their abilities explored the most of any, and we have yet to see a "fourth lashing" that truly combines the gravitational lashings (basic and reverse) and the adhesive lashing (full). We can certainly imagine some cool combos, like creating a reverse lashing to attract swords to a shield, fully lash several enemies' swords to your shield, and then lash the shield to the sky/ceiling, effectively disarming your opponents in a way that doesn't allow them to just pick their weapon back up. For instance. Now, as for solid illusions and distance Soulcasting, we simply don't know enough about either Lightweaving OR Soulcasting to determine what is "standard." I still hold the belief that light and sound waves are NOT the only waves that could be controlled by Illumination. If brain waves could be effected, for instance, the brain could conceivably be tricked into believing an illusion has substance - and being able to do some sort of charm/mind manipulation is definitely not out of character of Lightweavers. This isn't to say that my claim has more legitimacy over anyone else's; the point simply remains that we don't know what we don't know. Soulcasting with a fabrial definitely requires touch, but I can't see why Shallan would always have to be touching an item in the material plane to have a debate with it in Shadesmar about why it should change. And, as a final note, I am totally open to surges behaving differently when combined with a different surge. It's only that, so far, the evidence had not been nearly conclusive enough for me to believe that it will.

This thread is all about coming up with awesome things that theoretically could be done with surgebinding powers. I think any combination can be accepted, as we know that Honorblades can let someone surge different ones. I know we don't know the powers for all of the surges, but I'm sure this community can come up with plenty of fun stuff anyways. :-) I'll start! The Rail Gun/Rocket Ship: This theory works on the idea that an Edgedancer like Lift gets ahold of Kaladin's Windrunner Honorblade. Lift absolutely stuffs herself and has a sack of Stormlight filled emerald broams, so she has enough Stormlight to power Alethkar. She then proceeds to make her entire body completely frictionless and then sets up 8 basic lashings into the air - that would be Lift accelerating at 8x the rate of gravity without any resistance from wind or particles in the air. Houston, we have Lift Off.

This comes from observation and analyses, not verifiable proof; we are talking theories, afterall. (: I have a thread discussing exactly this sort of stuff (Personalities of the Knights Radiant Orders).

Jerich established with Brandon today that Skybreakers are NOT chill with what Adolin did "because it was illegal," but other orders would applaud - when I piped in and asked, "Like Dustbringers?" He had a knowing smile. Plus, if you look at the Brave/Obedient primary essence and the Love/Healing secondary essence of the Dustbringers/Releasers, I think those match very well with the who Adolin has been so far.

To go a little more on Seerow's comment, I am open to the aesthetic appearance differing, even if the actual function doesn't change. For instance, I could imagine the appearance of Abrasion for a Dustbringer/Releaser may look different than the "vine" we get with Lift. This may be dependent on the type of spren tied to an order.

I believe that the Divine Attributes are derived from the surges. I got which surge is associated with each Essence by simply taking the list on the second page of the Ars Arcanum and slapping them next to the chart on the first page. There isn't a single example that doesn't seem to be verified by characters, hence my high levels of certainty regarding this.

I've thought about this, and I think that as far as the powers go, in general I don't think they will function any differently. However, I do believe we may see some orders gain conscious use of their "primary" surge quicker. We have evidence of this, too - we see Kaladin sticking The Lopen to the wall and making spears stick together before he figures out how to fly. Also, in Ym's chapter we see a Truthwatcher with healing down, but he is just starting to notice the little light spren, which seems to indicate Illumination. Shallan is am exception in that she Soulcast a couple times before she took on Illumination, but even that supports this theory because she picked up on her Illumination powers MUCH quicker, whereas on her second time consciously Soulcasting she had... less than desirable results ("I... am a stick.") And note that I say CONSCIOUSLY - Kaladin obviously uses Reverse Bindings several times before he becomes an official Radiant and before he is even aware that he is a Surgebinder, for instance. But it seems like there is a Primary and a Secondary nature to the surges of each order, too.

Edit: It's frustrating when I accidentally submit when I'm just trying to type on an iPhone...

(The *Spoiler* tag is really just there to make sure no one feels like they need to censor themselves if they have a point to make.) Okay, the idea of this thread is to look at each order, what their powers are, and what we might expect from them based on their powers and the numbers they are associated with on "The Ten Essences and Their Historical Associations" in the WoR Ars Arcanum. A quick note; I included the primary and secondary Divine Attributes that correspond with each surge, not just what number they are as an order; I think you may find it to be quite appropriate as you read through. Windrunners Surges: Adhesion/Gravitation Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Protecting/Leading & Just/Confident Skybreakers Surges: Gravitation/Division Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Just/Confident & Brave/Obedient Dustbringers/Releasers Surges: Division/Abrasion Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Brave/Obedient & Loving/Healing Edgedancers Surges: Abrasion/Progression Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Loving/Healing & Learned/Giving Truthwatchers Surges: Progression/Illumination Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Learned/Giving & Creative/Honest Lightweavers Surges: Illumination/Transformation Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Creative/Honest & Wise/Careful Elsecallers Surges: Transformation/Transportation Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Wise/Careful & Resolute/Builder Willshapers Surges: Transportation/Cohesion Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Resolute/Builder & Dependable/Resourceful Stonewarden(/Stone Shaman?) Surges: Cohesion/Tension Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Dependable/Resourceful & Pious/Guiding Bondsmiths Surges: Tension/Adhesion Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Pious/Guiding & Protecting/Leading I'm going to come back and edit to include more details and commentary on each order, mostly because it's a pain to be doing all this from an iPhone, but an important realization after going through all of this is how much each of the characters we've seen from each order perfectly exemplify the Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes of not just ONE essence but of BOTH essences that are associated with the surges they manifest.

Thanks Jerich, it was great talking with you as well! And the other 17th Sharder you talked to was JamHeretic. (-:

I'd have picked Wir/Hoid to be more of the Bob Sagat narrator type... Lol

RShara: That was the idea of this post. (-:

Also, I will still let Tim have a chance to post his question, but I will say that I am left with the distinct impression that Adolin will be a Dustbringer/Releaser.... :-D

Also, I imagine this isn't new to the people here, but Brandon also said that the next Stormlight Archive book is "Stones on Hallowed", and he very casually mentioned in his monologue, "I wrote the books with a main character to focus on for flashbacks to give the stories a spine of sorts, someone who you can attach to. That way in the future it won't be as hard to remember what happened in each book, you can be like, "Oh, the third book? That was the one with SZETH in it..." (Emphasis added) So... Between the title and his dropped hint, I am STOKED to learn about our Assassin in White. :-D

DiamondMind deserves credit for pointing it out first, but we pretty much know 100% sure what they are because the Glyph code has been figured out. Bondsmiths are Tension/Adhesion, Truthwatchers are Progression/Illumination, and Willshapers are Teleportation/Cohesion.

I just came back from the WoR signing in Seattle and WOW! First Brandon book tour I've been to, I will NOT be missing others in the future! I thought I'd start a thread for Q&A responses. I've got a couple from a guy named Tim who said he was probably going to get an account and post soon, but he said if he hasn't posted by Monday, his answers are free game, and they are ZINGERS. Now for my questions, and feel free to post any that you got from events! Q: What would happen to the function of a magic item if it were to be taken from one world to another? (This was me asking about Nightblood indirectly during the general Q&A to avoid spoilers) A: An invested object theoretically would work, but they may not work exactly the way they are supposed to. --------------------- Q: Would you be able to tell me anything about how Vasher lost Nightblood to Nin? (Asked one-on-one) A: (Brandon gives a knowing smile) "Wait, who?" Q: Okay... What can you tell me about how Zahel lost Nightblood? A: Oh ZAHEL! Well... I can't say much about that right now, but you'll get all of these questions answered in the book "Nightblood" in the future. ------------- Q: We've now seen that the Syl-Blade can change shape to meet Kaladin's needs. Is there a limit to the size that Syl can become? A: As for the size, she can get up to about the size of a human. Q: Okay, and is Syl limited to only weaponry, or can she take on the shape of other objects? A: I'm gonna have to RAFO that.... (We take a picture together, and as I'm grabbing my books he says,) Though, to be fair, you have been seeing Syl change forms since the beginning of the books into many non-combat forms, so... (Fiendishly trails off)

“Kaladin Lashed himself to the side, jerking out of the way. He swiped with his Blade, but didn’t come close to connecting. “I should have practiced more with the sword,” he muttered. Oh. That’s right. You probably want me to be a spear, don’t you? The weapon fuzzed to mist, then elongated and grew into the shape of a silvery spear, with glowing, swirling glyphs along the sharpened sides of the spearhead.” Did anyone else have a total Sanderson-gasm at this point?

It really wouldn't surprise me if Bridge 4 was getting some form of Squire powers in tWoK. So many times the whole crew would come back from a bridge run with few to no injuries. Also, as has been mentioned, I'm pretty sure that we see some Squires in Dalinar's visions.

Harakeke, mind helping the rest of us out on the WoR Chapter 84 code? :-D Edit: Just saw you've already contributed. Keep up the good work. :-D

A couple friends and I are going to the Brandon signing in Seattle this Saturday, and I want to contribute to the collective 17th Shard knowledge base; what questions do you think most need answering? I may have a couple that I could think of, but I'm looking for the ones that will get the most mileage (provided I'm not RAFO'd). Thoughts?

HOLY CRAP. SO. GOOD. Edit: Okay, so, now that I'm breathing at a slightly slower rate, I may be able to form sentences that don't involve the shift key. First of all, I think that it needs to be said that Brandon Sanderson did a damnation good job of delivering disgusting amounts of endorphin and dopamine rushes to his dedicated fans right at the end. I mean, we got some Wit/Hoid stuff (more on that in a moment), we got names for new orders, and we got FREAKING VASHER AND NIGHTBLOOD. HOLY CRAP HOLY CRAP HOLY CRAP. I know that I'm offering nothing new to discussion about Vasher and Nightblood, but I, like many others, thoroughly lost my $#!% when Nightblood was given to Szeth. I mean, the book was great, but WOW does Brandon know how to finish strong. Now for impressions of the book, the story, and characters: The Book: WAS GORGEOUS. The art was truly impeccable. I know we had seen some images of the inside art, but it really can't be properly summed up by just looking at it on a computer screen. Really beautiful design, hats off to all artists involved in the making. The Story: One of the things I have to give major credit to Mr. Sanderson for is doing such an excellent job of presenting challenges and progress so consistently well throughout. Every character was engaging for me - I never got the feeling of, "Oh crap, another ______ chapter? Can't we just hurry up and get to the next Kaladin chapter?" And, to be honest, I felt that sometimes while reading tWoK. When one section ended, no matter how engaging it was and how much I wanted to keep that storyline moving, it always moved onto another storyline that was just as important to me and kept me satisfied. For being a book that is over 1k pages, it clipped by at a heart-pounding pace. What I found most impressive, though, was how well the feel of the book, while epic in its own right, still felt properly in place as number two of ten. If anyone other than myself is familiar with opera, this book paces like Die Walkure from Wagner's Der Ring des Niebelung - in other words, it is a masterwork in and of itself, but it definitely has the proper feel of being part of something much larger than itself. Hats off to Brandon, he is really starting to hit some virtuosic writing, and I'm very excited to see where we go from here. --Characters I Loved (not in any other order than as I think of them)-- Lopen!(and family): Really some of the best comedic writing Brandon does, in my esteem. God I laughed hard when Lopen's mother was babying Elhokar. And I actually fist pumped when he started taking in storm light. THE BEST. Wit/Hoid: So, anybody else pick up that Hoid might not even be Hoid's name? There was a point at which it was mentioned something to tune of, "not having to use your master's name anymore." Brings lots of questions. But, beyond that, I LOVED his speech to the ugly rock-crab-thing at the end. Sanderson really exposed some vulnerability as a writer there, and, if he ever gets bored, decides to read through this thread, and then makes it this far, I just want to say to you, "Thank you for being a writer that cares. We know the expectations are high for you, but you manage to keep fulfilling and exceeding our promises. We know that adds just that much more pressure in the future, but it is that pressure that is crafting you into the finest fantasy writer of the post-Jordan generation. Shallan: What a dark young woman we have in front of us. I'm fascinated by her character, and I am terribly interested to see where she goes from here. A lot of people seem to have some gripes about her, but I would daresay she is the most human of characters we've seen Sanderson right, and, because of that, I think that a lot of people become uncomfortable with the reflections that she might cast on us. Her conversations with Pattern are deeply insightful views into the psychology of truth and perception. This is a messy subject that could have been handled TERRIBLY, but, as we are seeing more and more from Sanderson, he has a skill for exploring the subject in depth while at the same time never slowing down the pace of his narrative. Fantastic stuff. Also, she's witty as hell and has cool frickin' powers! I plan on starting a thread soon to theorize on the different ways she could use her powers. Anybody thought about gamma waves? Brain waves? Probability waves??? So much fun in store for our little redhead... Kaladin: Anybody else get the POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!/Super Sayian feeling when Kaladin went Radiant? Not a complaint, btw. Totally epic fight. And I turned into a little school girl the first time Syl changed into a Shardblade. And then I turned into a little school girl at an N'Sync concert when she turned into a SHARDSPEAR. And there was fist pumping. I mean, I could go over a lot of things with him, but I'm just gonna level with you, after finishing the book less than an hour ago, I don't have a lot else to say - maybe I will as I'm able to separate my excitement about him being a full Knights Radiant Windrunner from the rest of the book. Adolin: I'm on team Shadolin. His dueling was epic, I love who he became throughout the course of the book and I can't wait to see what happens with him. And hell yeah you kill Sadeas - Sadeas doesn't deserve a longer death, he deserved to be a dead mutha-shut-yo-mouth. Dalinar: Bondsmith FTW. Oh, and go him for listening to Kaladin about A-hole. Navani: Sweet awesome inventor-ness. Total geeky goodness. I can't wait to see what she does with Fabrials. Jasnah: I saw that coming on both sides; she needed to die for classic reasons, and I also never worried that she was really out of the story. Even if she wasn't brought back at the end, I would've expected to see her in a future book. Well done, and I'm looking forward to hearing her tale in a later book. Eshonai: Tragic, wonderful storytelling. Vasher: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Szeth: I know he's so detestable, but god I felt bad for the guy. He's gone through hell simply because he has been more dedicated than anyone else would've been willing to. Doesn't excuse him from doing what he did, but holy crap what an interesting character. And now he is with our favorite sociopathic sword... Nightblood: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not to mention, F#@& YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, as a side note, if someone is reading WoR and isn't familiar with Sanderson's other books, they are probably completely confused after they read that. But who cares. SO MUCH WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!1one!i!i!i! Maybe I'll post more later, but those are my initial thoughts.

Okay, after doing what I should have done in the first place and investigated the Coppermind, most of this seems to be confirmed. However, the new tidbits we have is: 1) The order that I present is confirmed by the Coppermind wiki info. 2) Stonewards are officially Cohesion and Tension, if the pattern continues (which it should). My guess is that Bondsmiths are the 10th order, though of course there are cases to be made for them being the 5th or the 8th. It just seems that, of the combinations offered, I think that Tension and Adhesion seem to logically lead to "Bonding" and "Smithing." But, that's just a guess, we shall see.

I'll start by saying this post is all theories based off of information released from the excerpts released by TOR and the little bit of the Ars Arcanum shown in the Amazon.com Samples. PLEASE delete this if this is violating any sort of spoiler rules, but I promise this is all pure conjecture. Edit: After looking at the Coppermind, a lot of this seems to have been confirmed elsewhere, but this post still will now attach the specific surges to each order. My apologies to those who don't love Geometry, I'll be presenting my thoughts in a postulate-theorem format. I'll start with what I believe to be some postulates: P1) There are 10 different types of surges which are specifically listed in the Ars Arcanum in the following order: Adhesion: The surge of pressure and vacuum. Gravitation: The surge of gravity (duh). Division: The surge of destruction and decay. Abrasion: The surge of friction. Progression: The surge of growth and healing, or regrowth. Illumination: The surge of light, sound, and various wave forms. Transformation: The surge of soulcasting. Transportation: The surge of motion and realmatic transition. Cohesion: The surge of strong axial interconnection. Tension: The surge of soft axial interconnection. P2) There are 10 orders of the Knights Radiant. P3) Each order of Knights Radiant have two different surges available to them. P4) There is overlap of each of the surges (by necessity of P2 and P3) P5) These are the known (potential?) Radiants, their surges, and the name of their Knights Radiant order, if known: Kaladin, Szeth - Adhesion and Gravitation (Windrunners) Shallan - Illumination and Transformation (Lightweavers) Jasnah - Transformation and Transportation (???) Lift - Abrasion and Progression (Edgedancer) Ym - Progression and Illumination ???? - I may be forgetting someone that we know about, I just listed what came to my head immediately --------- So, here are my theorems: T1) P1 is not listed in any way alphabetical, so we can assume that there is a purposeful reason to list them in this order. Given T1, when we compare the orders and powers in P5 to the list on P1, we find that each of set of powers are found adjacent to each other on the list. Of most significant note, Shallan and Jasnah perfectly demonstrate this, with Transformation sitting between Illumination and Transportation. I find this to be strong evidence to imply that: T2) These are the following power sets for each of the Knights Radiants orders: 1. Windrunners: Adhesion and Gravitation 2. Skybreakers: Gravitation and Division 3. Dustbringers: Divison and Abrasion 4. Edgedancers: Abrasion and Progression 5. ???: Progression and Illumination 6. Lightweavers: Illumination and Transformation 7. Elsecallers: Transformation and Transportation 8. ???: Transportation and Cohesion 9. Stonewards: Cohesion and Tension 10. Bondsmith(?): Tension and Adhesion (this is based on the assumption that the list is circular in nature) The questions I have after all this: 1) The obvious: What the heck are Division, Cohesion, and Tension surges? These are, of course, the surges we have not seen(/been aware of having seen) so far. 2) What are the names for the corresponding spren? We have Cryptics paired with Lightweavers, Honorspren with Windrunners, and whatever Wyndle is (my bet is something to do with gardening/______gardeners) with Edgedancers.

So, I have every intention of getting my hands on this book as soon as humanly possible (as I am sure is true of many of you), and I'm trying to strategize the best way to do this. Now, here is my situation: 1) I live in the Seattle area and I am not aware of a midnight release bookstore, and Google has not been terribly helpful for me. 2) I would PREFER to read a hardcover. There is something exhilarating about having the real thing. 3) The University Bookstore (where I currently have a reserved copy) has told me that they won't necessarily have it available on the floor as of 9AM tomorrow morning when they open, which makes close to useless for my purposes. So, my first question: Does anyone know of a midnight release in the greater Seattle/east-side area? If I am unable to locate a midnight release bookstore near me, I will likely buy it on iBooks. That leads to another question, though; will it release 9PM PST because it's midnight on the east coast? Does anyone know how these things work?