Deldraedair

Oh my gosh! Loving this theory!

Also, remember when Dalinar and Shallan did some weird power combind thingy that made the big map. What if Kaladin could make a storm by bonding with another radiant.

I also find really fascinating that he used Wind spren. I wonder if each order of radiant could control a common type of spren, and that's how he did it. It could just be an advanced form of adhesion or both. Either way Kaladin summoning a storm sounds awesome, and is definitely something Brandon would do. I have no doubts on that.  (Forgive me if someone already mentioned this I got too excited and didn't read the whole thread)

On 6/16/2017 at 7:49 PM, maxal said:

Because Dalinar believes his mission is to unite the Highprinces. His son murdered a Highprince which is against the law. He can't be seen playing favorite, pretending to be the honorable one while allowing his son to get away with it. He can't allow other Highprinces to think he might have sent Adolin to kill Sadeas, on purpose. So, all in all, Dalinar might very well not have the chance to punish his son, not to forget Brandon basically told us he would. When asked if Dalinar would punish Adolin if he knew, Brandon said yes, he would, except he doesn't know. 

Also, the book is named Oathbringer in reference to an in-world book which is presume to refer to Dalinar's former Shardblade and his former owner. Other theories have it might be a biography of Dalinar, but I think not as Dalinar isn't the Oathbringer, he did not name the Blade nor does he carry it anymore.

All in all, punishing Adolin probably isn't against Dalinar's oaths. Gavilar was willing quick-start a Desolation in order to strengthen his kingdom and yet he too was on the path to become a Bondsmith. I say, it is quite likely the Stormfather won't care one bit what Dalinar does to Adolin

Hahahahahahaha! Um no. Do you not remember the seen in Words of Radiance when he finds out Shallan is a radiant and gets teary eyed. Then realized that his job was to gather the knights radiant. Now this is just evidence that he completely knows that his mission is not to unite the high princes. You yourself recently said that the government would be destroyed because of the everstorm. His mission is not just to unite the knights radiant either. He swore an oath to unite all who he could. If he can't keep unity among his own family how on earth can he unite the world (which is essential since it's coming to an end). Now lets say you're right, and I'm right. It's possible we both are. I'm sure that Dalinar will not break his oaths witch are to unite and not divide. You're saying that Adolin will get disowned. Now it's possible that Dalinar needs to disown Adolin and that not doing so would cause more damage and divide more than doing so. Now, what would that say about Adolin. That he was so out of control that he needed to be punished severly and disowned, that he murdered a high-prince in cold blood and is unworthy to inherit the throne. That kind of man does not deserve Shallan. There are three ways of how I could see this working out.

1. Adolin gets out of control and Dalinar is forced to disown him. 

2. Dalinar decides that in these desperate times he can't afford to do something rash like disowning him so decides not to.

3. Dalinar makes a mistake in disowning him and it is portrayed as the wrong decision, not because the times are hard but because he was "totally justified" in killing the high prince in cold blood without a fare trial. 

The problem is that Dalinar has impeccable judgement and had far to selfish a childhood to wrongly chastise his son. Unless of course he is right to chastise his son. So in the end you are left with two options. Either Dalinar doesn't disown his son or he does because as the book portrays it. He deserves it. I agree with the later. 

On 6/16/2017 at 11:28 AM, Krandacth said:

Actually, it was Avramelons (or [something similar]melons) not roses, and Adolin jumped at the opportunity. Also, Kaladin charged towards the Chasmfiend to save the drawings that were vitally important to Dalinar (his liberator, commanding officer and only halfway-decent Brightlord Kaladin has known) and his strategy for ending the war (also a great thing in Kaladin's book).  He did, admittedly, offer to distract the Chasmfiend in some other manner to save Shallan, but still largely out of duty to Dalinar, as she is his son's betrothed and (again) carrying information vital to his forthcoming extremely dangerous expedition. I'm not denying there wasn't an element of Kaladin's budding respect and attraction to Shallan in his decision, but it was almost definitely the smaller part.

Oh sure it may seem like he jumped at the idea, but the moment Navini said he had to do it now, he backed out. Evidenced by the fact that he never delivered the Avermelons and and there relationship did end. So he actually didn't jump on the idea, and my previous point still stands. 

As for Kaladins part with the chasme fiend. Sure I guess you could say that, personally I think his affection played a bigger role, but there isn't exactly any evidence for that. I guess a better example would be when he was in the hole during the highstorm and she asked him to share his story ( something he hasn't even shared with bridge four) and he did. Because she was terrified. Which, by the way, that scene is one of the most touching scene's in the book. Far better than any scene with Adolin and Shallan together in my opinion. Also for those of you who have been commenting around the shard of Kaladin getting to much screen time. It's because he is the single most boss character Brandon's ever read. (Keep in mind I haven't read War Breaker, or the sequel mistborn series, and granted I guess Hoid is probably more boss.)  

3 hours ago, maxal said:

What it means for Adolin is uncertain, but it does seem as if he will suffer some loss. Now, I doubt he can realistically sink down to the 10th dahn, 4th dahn is probably his "stable rank", so even if Dalinar disinherits him, it seems unlikely he would drop this low.

Tell me, in what world would Dalinar Kholin, who had just sworn an oath to unite instead of divide, disinherit his son because he's not radiant enough, or because he killed the man who left him stranded on the battle field causing the death of thousands? Do you really believe that he would break his oaths the very next book? 

In that case, you should call the next book oath breaker.

13 hours ago, kari-no-sugata said:

To expand a bit on why I think Kaladin would be bad at romantic relationships: he has a terrible work/life balance - meaning, he would be unlikely to have much spare time or make time to go on dates or the like. He's the type of guy who would cancel a date due to work (and might not even send a message). He would be able to meet with Shallan as part of his work as a Radiant but that's not necessarily a good time for romance. He's not good at relaxing. He's not good at more delicate interactions. He's not good at dealing with women at all, really.

 

Do you remember in WoK when Navani is trying to get some time alone with Dalinar, and she tries to get Adolin away by convincing him that his relationship with the girl he was currently courting was on the line. (Which apparently it was, since it ended shortly) She tries to convince him to bring her roses and he says I'll do it later. She then further explains that he needs to do it immediately or else his chance with her may end, which he replies by putting it off further. His relationship ended quickly. Please tell me why the guy who wasn't willing to do something as simple as get roses, and bring it to the girl he intends to marry, when there relationship is dying, is completely qualified to have a relationship. Well the person who charged toward a chasm fiend, to save the girl he found himself caring for, knowing full well that was almost surely going to die, is not.

 Listen, Roshar is about to be Completely obliterated by the Everstorm. Both Adolin and Kaladin are going to be incredibly busy. So who's relationship would work out depends on who's willing to sacrifice more. On this, as previously shown by my examples given above, Kaladin wins. Hands down! 

Besides, even if Kaladin were more busy, the fact that he is willing to give more, is far more important. If Shallan thinks other wise, than that is an incredibly disappointing flaw in her character. 

On 5/17/2017 at 4:58 AM, SLNC said:

Look. The point is, that Kaladin did not betray Shallan. He didn't know, who this guy in the Shardplate was, he didn't even know Shallan exists at this point. This is not betrayal. If anything it would be coming clean. If Shallan can't see that, then she is not the rational person I am reading since about 2000 pages.

Why should he have told her it immediately? Even though I am of the opinion, that Shallan and Kaladin have shown some kind of chemistry down in the chasm and that he probably could have told her, but I also think, that, first, he was exhausted and, second, having just survived an chasmfiend attack and a chasm flood, he probably didn't want to put more tension on the situation. He also enjoyed it, you know. Maybe he wanted to tell her after the chasm thing, but then the Everstorm happened. Both of them have been kinda busy and if Shallan holds that against Kaladin, then I would be very surprised.

And Balat wasn't wrong, to be honest. Helaran betrayed them, abandoned them. Yes, of course, they are kin and knowing a man, you like, you might even be sexually attracted to, has killed your brother hurts, but there is a difference between war and cold-blooded murder. If anything Helaran himself is the one at fault. For abandoning his family and going to war. There always was the possiblility, that he dies. Shallan even acknowledges, that whoever killed Helaran probably did it in self-defense and she really can't blame him for that. Of course, she thinks Amaram is a bastard, but I really think, that she doesn't think the same about Kaladin. Even him telling her about his guilt wouldn't blemish that. If anything, I think, it would raise her opinion of him, because he deemed it important enough, that she knew, who really killed Helaran. That's how I think Shallan would think. Like Balat said, Helaran abandoned him and was so detached from his family. She has long grieved for him and certainly isn't burning for revenge for him.

Thank you!!! This sums up my feelings on this subject almost perfectly. Though I do believe that there might be a little bit of drama, but to all honesty, Kaladin was completely justified. When someone starts hacking the men you know and love. You fight to protect them, that's part of his oaths. Still, Shallan might not see it that way at first, but I don't think it will last very long at all.

Another factor is Pattern. He's extremely logical, and being that he's Shallan's spren she'll end up hearing him out at first. A very big factor is also very dependent on the situation. If Kaladin tells her, than she will probably forgive him quickly. Maybe even immediately, which would give me a lot more respect for her, not that I don't already. If she figures out on her own however, I think it will be much worse and longer, and Kaladin will have to give a heartfelt apology. Though I think he should do that anyway, even if he is justified. Something about the statement. "Hey I killed your brother but I'm not sorry." just doesn't sound like something Kaladin would say. 

As for Heleran being alive, ya I'm hopeful to, though I don't think it is a necessity for Kaladin and Shallan's relationship. Still I would like him to be alive, if anything just for the way he'd add to the plot.

And for the whole topic of Kaladin and Shallan. I haven't read the whole eleven pages of posts, but as for my vote, I'm an enormous fan of Shalladin

Okay I'm fine with waiting for you. whenever your ready.

18 hours ago, maxal said:

Considering how much page time Kaladin has, I honestly would not mind if his love interest, if love interest he has, were to be a side character. Currently however, I am not favoring Kaladin having a romance. I just don't see it as something which needs to happen within the short term.

I wouldn't enjoy it if Brandon were to pluck in some random darkeyed girl just so Adolin could have a love interest in order to make it "all right" for Shallan to prefer Kaladin. Also, the rich prince and the lowly born girl is one overdone trope. Obviously, everything can be done, but giving how the story has unfolded so far, I would feel cheated if Brandon were to use this ploy

I don't understand why you find it okay for the person, who has been proven throughout the series to be slow in getting into relationships and requiring history a deep interaction with a person before truly caring for them, to have a random girl thrown into the series to be a love interest, well it's completely out of line for the impulsive character who has gone through many relationships with girls thrown into the series to have a love interest thrown at him as they did Shallan. Is it because you can't part with the passionless light heart'd flirting that Shallan and Adolin share? Or is it because you're so opposed to the classic trope of two really connectable characters who both have the qualities the other needs, having a deadly, terrifying, and heart felt experience together, then getting married?    

Furthermore I was not suggesting for Brandon to pluck in some random dark eyes girl. That's why I said any ideas. I was looking to see if there were any characters that would fit already. Personally I hate throwing any character in for a love interest.

13 hours ago, axcellence said:

You didn't enjoy Mistborn, did you?

Vin = poor orphan girl

Ellend = filthy rich baron's kind son

BS sticks to the formula when it comes to romance!

That's exactly the point. It's not about trope its about what works. Have any of you listened to Brandon's lectures (#total wanna be author) He talks about how ideas or tropes don't matter. It's all about how you write them. Brandon Sanderson can make any trope interesting, save for the love at first sight trope which is the trope, which is the trope Shadolin falls under.Here is an example. One of the tropes I hate the most is the young kid discovers cool magic on earth that was kept secret from the world. Alcatraz did this but I found it incredibly enjoyable, since he twisted it by making the villains be the ones keeping it secret from the earth.

Last I do not want Adolin to go with some random girl to make it "all right" for Shallan to prefer Kaladin. It is inevitable that the conflict between Adolin, Shallan, and Kaladin will and in my opinion should happen. What I want is for when the conflict starts to die down Adolin to get another girl. Mainly the alternative is either Adolin goes and tries to kill Kaladin turning anti hero, or worse Kaladin says whatever and the whole thing just boils down to emotionless mush.

Oh and Maxal. I challenge you to a game of battle ship..........I'll wait for you to get the pun. 

I don't think Brandon is going to drop some side character in for Kaladin. Rather Kaladin will probably either get Shallan or just go solo. (preferably Shallan. )

However, I do not want Adolin to go the same way. If Kaladin gets Shallan, Brandon should definitely get another girl for Adolin. Personally, I would like to see Adolin go for some young, lowly, dark eyed, girl who doesn't have the mindset of "I don't really care if this relation ship works out because I can just go find another rich guy." ( Not that Shallan is like that. Just the others. The only reason I don't ship Shadolin is because I like Shalladin far far better.)

Any ideas?

55 minutes ago, SLNC said:

2 hours ago, axcellence said:

I think another one is Mraize and Shallan - just the mysterious bad boy vibe that some people are attracted to (and purple eyes).

Which is exactly the trope, which everyone has been criticizing about how Shallan might be attracted to Kaladin.

Ha Ha! I don't think I'd use the term bad boy since Kaladin is more straight than Shallan but I do agree with you there. Also as for the classic, over used trope, as I've said before I find the love at first sight trope, along with a betrothal, far more distasteful. The biggest reason I believe Shallan and Kaladin should be together is because of how they complement each other. As this page has strongly pointed out, Kaladin has many faults. Among the biggest is arrogance, pessimism\depression, and bias anger against light eyes because of his distasteful past involving them.

Who better could help these problems than Shallan? As it vividly describes in WOR Shallan, has felt the same pains, and according to Kaladin, amazingly, wonderfully wasn't broken. She also has understanding for Kaladin and experience with helping those who were broken. Even to a level that Kaladin compared to Tien. (Which, by the way, nothing could be better for Kaladin than a love interest who lifts up Kaladin like Tien did). Last on this note, I can think of no better way to help Kaladin with his prejudice against light eyes than to marry one.

Also, I may be the only one who thinks this, but I like the idea of Kaladin becoming the honorable loving father far better than the lone wolf .

On Shallans side, according to herself, she is broken and is going through a time of great perils and problems. Such as Jasnah dying, her father, Heleran, the ghostbloods, and, worst of all, the final desolation. I don't think Adolin can help and progress her character as much, especially after his whole ordeal with Sadeas. Not to say that he was wrong to kill Sadeas, considering he had it coming and removing him would help the kingdom. But I would say that Adolin went about it wrong. Pinning a man down well he's whimpering, slowly shoving a knife through his eye and enjoying every minute of it...that puts a taint on his character.  I believe that Kaladin, however, is the perfect one to help Shallan. How he helped bridge four, a broken group of thieves with dark pasts, recover from their hardships and are now the most happy and bonded men on Roshar. Kaladin is, as said in WOR radiance., a man of passion and a man of honor, and would therefore help Shallan find what she needs as a radiant. Truths. 

I do believe they would be the best to build each other out of the dust and help each other return what they had lost, joy and peace.

1 hour ago, maxal said:

Kaladin/Lift is obviously meant for the second arc of SA.

 

I wonder how major that will be. I hope it's not too abrupt  because I've gotten pretty connected to the characters already and kinda want to stay looking through their perspective. Also I've heard some people say he's going to start another arc every three books and some say every five. Could you clear that up for me.

Also I do not think Kaladin and Lift to much of an age gap.

Storms no! Guys Brandon may like twist but they have to have some reason (especially romance twist like these) if they don't help the plot or characters its useless.

Hey guys, have to side with the under dogs here. I'm a huge Shalladin fan for these reasons:

1) There is far deeper emotion with Kalladin and Shallan then with Adolin. Besides the playful banter in the chasms, the part where they tell each other about their childhood is pretty big. I'm pretty sure that's the only time they've ever done that and I think that's significant. Quote: "Kalladin had thought his life terrible, but there was one thing he'd had, and perhaps not cherished enough: parents who loved him...What would he have done if, his father had been like the abusive hateful man Shallan described? If his mother had died before his eyes? What would he have done if instead of living off Tien's light he had been required to bring the light to the family? Almighty above this woman was stronger than he'd ever been." (p 877) Doesn't this indicate something deeper and more awesome (which is the only way Brandon writes any plot and I doubt he'd do anything less when writing romance) than Adolin and Shallan's flirting? Plus as bad as you say the love triangle trope is, if Shallan and Adolin are together, it's still a love triangle, just one where Kaladin is alone. Honestly the deepest emotion I've seen from Shadolin is the time when Shallan reacted negatively to Adolins promises of protecting her. Promises that reminded her of her fathers oppression. Not really the best foot to start with if you ask me, not when it comes to a deeper relationship (which, considering how deep a character Shallan is, she couldn't settle for something less). I just feel that Kaladin's character would fit with Shallan better. Their exchange of insults and puns in the chasms is so much better than any of Adolin and Shallan's interactions. Not to mention when they first met. That scene with the boots was seriously the most classic "first meeting" type thing ever!

2) It adds to the plot far more if Shalladin happens than if Shadolin happens. If Shadolin happens there will be little conflict. Kalladin will be a little disappointed but he already partially came to terms with that problem (See page 929 of WoR). Other than that there really aren't any realistic ways conflict will start. Further more it would end the romance very early in the series like with Navani and Dalinar, which as I've noticed you guys don't seem to be interested in. As Shallan once said: "End it to early and your audience gets disapointed." lol. On the other hand, if Shalladin happens instead, there is a lot more opportunity for conflict. Adolin would be forced to make a decision between fighting Kalladin for Shallan or letting her go for Kalladin's sake. Kalladin would have to make the same decision, and Shallan would have to choose between the two of them. Then there's the after math of when they choose. What will Adolin and Kalladin's reactions be? Furthermore, when Shallan finds out about Heleran It will add more conflict to the romance plot. At some point after finding out Shallan would have a "Oh my gosh you killed my brother I hate you...but I also love you storm it!" moments which could be taken as cliche but hey, romance in general is cliche so I think it would work anyway. As a side, I want to make one thing clear. I definitely do NOT want Shalladin to happen after the betrothal to Adolin is complete. Shallan breaking it in a dishonest way with Kaladin? That would be totally uncool and quite honestly, against Kaladins oaths.

3) Before I get into this one I would like to defend Kalladin for a bit. Though you haven't gone right out and said it, you've been strongly implying that Kalladin deserves Shallan less then Adolin and that's why Shadolin is superior to Shalladin. I think that is very short sided considering what both have accomplished. Which, in that regard, Kaladin wins by a landslide. I mean, who had honor when no one else did (I mean, before he met Dalinar)? who joined the freaking army to save his brother? Who brought himself back from suicide to save the lowliest of men and make them Radiant? Who protected Shallan and killed a chasmfiend for her (like seriously, he was willing to sacrifice himself for her. He knew he would die when he left that crack in the rock. That's devotion.)? Who saved the king after an internal battle that led him to break his oaths, but reforged them? Who fought and killed Szeth in the middle of two freakin HIGHSTORMS (one of which was the thing that literally broke the world) to save those he Loved? 

You know the answers to those questions...

Adolin can't possibly match up to that, not even close. I mean, I'm not saying he's not awesome, but he's honestly just not as great as Kaladin, not in a way that's super big about the plot. I know there's still a lot of books left and who knows, Adolin might become just as awesome. I doubt that however, especially after he murdered Sadeas, That's gonna come back to bite him. I think his character is going to go down hill. To be honest, I don't know. 

Regardless, the fact is is that we can't tell yet. Brandon can do what he wants. I'll love the series either way.

I was OK with getting a soother. The "Breeze" type rascal stereotype has some appeal I think. 

Though, I don't think Djimon Hounsou would work as Sazed, he's too tough and impressive looking. Sazed should look more scholarly I think.

On 3/7/2017 at 5:32 PM, Captains Domon said:

Tom Cruise as Kelsier(seriously)

Chloe Grace Moretz as Vin

Nicholas Hoult as Elend Venture

Djimon Hounsou as Sazed

Tom Hiddleston as Breeze

Martin Freeman as Dockson(yep)

Edward Norton as Yeden

Brendan Gleeson as Clubs

Graham McTavish as Ham

Karl Urban as Marsh

Tom Holland as Spook

Jeremy Irons as Straff Venture

Mia Wasikowska as Shan Elariel

Liam Neeson as Renoux/Voice of TenSoon

Hugo Weaving as Rashek

Really like this list! I think a lot of those actors would really work!

David Tennant as Hoid maybe? No?

(sorry, bad grammar in that second sentence.)

31 minutes ago, Gizmosowner said:

It would be sad if he died such an early death but I am sure he has extensive notes on where his series is going so someone he trust will finish and hopefully be able to give it the ending it deserves

But it probably won't be as amazing even still. Tons of Wheel of Time fans were disappointed at the ending Brandon wrote, though they admit it Brandon did it a justice (the ones I've talked to at least).

Does anyone else have this terrible paranoia that Brandon will die in like, a plane crash or car accident and never complete his series? I know its kind of irrational and stupid but still, I don't want a repeat of Robert Jordan if you know what I mean. Brandon Sanderson is too amazing to have that happen!!

Thanks guys! I guess those ideas make sense. Another point though is if you consider someones spirit. A lashing effects the spiritual bond, and an object/person can only have one spirit (the literal human soul, or the cognitive identity) so I don't think it would ever be possible to even single out a single part of a persons body.

I know right!!! It stinks that it won't be coming out until late fall though. 

Hey guys! Jonathan here!

This is my first post to the 17th shard and it was brought about by a subject of discussion/argument between my brothers and I. Everyone in my family are die-hard fans of the Cosmere, the Stormlight Archive in particular, and an idea struck my brother a little while ago. He was reading in the Ars Arcanum at the end of Words of Radiance and came across the part talking about how gravitational lashings worked. He read (I paraphrase): "Advanced uses of this lashing would allow a Windrunner to make him or herself lighter by binding a portion of his or her mass upward." He thought, and still thinks, that a Windrunner could cut a person in half by binding one half of a person's body one way and another half the opposite way, splitting them in two. He thought this by assuming that when it said: "...bind a portion of his or her MASS..." that it meant the literal flesh of a person's body, and that one could single out half of a person with a lashing. I objected to this (me and my older brother who sided with me), trying to explain to him that when the Ars Arcanum used the word 'mass', that it was talking about the more complicated meaning involving weight. I explained to him Einsteins theory of relativity, explaining how gravity works with a pillow. The earth (and the spiritual bond to it that lashings interfere with) is like a large weight in the middle of the pillow, and lashings are like putting a very heavy weight away from the central weight (the earth), overcoming the earths gravitational bond and drawing a marble (the thing a Windrunner is lashing) away from it. I asked him if he could split a marble by placing it on a pillow and pressing down on the pillow on either side of it. He could not, obviously, however he still thought he was correct. I continued to explain that lashings (and therefore gravity, which is all the lashings effect) are all about weight and that an object, in order to be split by two lashings, would need to have two separate weights, while remaining one whole being. This is of course impossible, yet my brother still doesn't understand. I know this is an abstract topic and perhaps somewhat irrelevant, but it has been the subject of many a lengthy argument. My brother and I would both like a second opinion on the matter. Please respond and let me know what you think. Could lashings split someone in half with two lashings on either side? Thanks!