Hero-of-Pages

The visuals are nice...

Syl isn't a horse...

Fantasy and sci-fi are wrought with interspecies relationships. Dwarves and Elves and Humans. Syl and Kaladin are both intelligent individuals capable of making their own decisions, developing relationships, and giving consent. Gallant can't. I don't have an issue with a listener and human relationship, or siah aimian and human, or siah aimian and listener. You might, and you might have a problem with Aragorn and Arwen, or Eragon and Arya for the reasons you stated, in which case I think you can stand by your argument I guess. But it is something that happens consistently.

For me the biggest problem I have with Syladin is simply a lack of understanding of spren biology, and that is only assuming that people want their relationship to evolve physically. For me I just love the relationship that has developed between the two. I see it as a wonderful friendship that I hope to see evolve more, whichever route Brandon takes. I appreciated the tender moments between Syl and Kal in Shadesmar. 

16 minutes ago, HoidsRock said:

Kaladin's is at least tied to his secondary attributes of Jes in Ars Arcanum (leading).  Dalinar likewise has a link with Ishi (guiding).  But I have to resort to mental gymnastics for Shallan/Shash (Creative/Honest does not seem to link to memory).  As for Lift/Vev, the two stated attributes are loving/healing which do not necessarily link to language (a theory I otherwise like).

Thoughts?  Mental gymnastics welcome.

I think this makes sense. I generally believe that the resonances are tied more to the attributes associated with their order than their surges.

As for Shallan and Lift, I think explaining is going to be more abstract. Shallan uses her mnemonic abilities to facilitate her drawing, so it could be creativity. Or it could be honesty because she is remembering things as they were exactly, without her biases coming into it. For Lift my best guess would be that it has to do with communication. Like... in order to express love for someone there has to be some level of understanding and communication? IDK.

It could also be that it is more connected to their oaths then to the attributes. 

35 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

Sorry, not sure what you mean by this. Brandon has said that holding two different "powers" (for lack of a better term) results in a Resonance. Wax, as a Twinborn, has a Resonance. Surgebinders, as a result of holding two different Surges, have a Resonance. Where did you see Brandon denounce this idea?

I think the idea they are trying to get across is that surgebinders have resonances that seem to have little to do with combining their powers. Kaladin has strength of squires, Shallan has her memory, and the guesses we have for others are Lift potentially understanding languages and Dalinar... drawing out surges? While these are all supplementary to their nature, and seem sort of connected to their oaths, or helpful to their surge in the case of Shallan, none of them actually seem to be a combination of the KR surges, unless we use mental gymnastics.

35 minutes ago, Elanmorin said:

Seems like Dalinar finds her somewhat... Abrasive. 

Boooo. Take an anger upvote

My problem with Odium being Trell is that Sanderson will have to write about Trell in such a way that we don't know it is Odium, otherwise he spoils book 5 of SA. Basically the identity of Trell will remain a mystery until Mistborn Era 3. Definitely possible, but this fact, combined with the whole "Someone else moves us lawman" makes me think Autonomy is more likely.

1 hour ago, Harry the Heir said:

Well, hold up a second. Two of the people you just described as simply "willing" to do specific things. (The other one is a more complicated case than either Szeth or Taravangian, in that you're looking at a number of actions that caused harm and a number of other actions that liberated people.)

Mistborn spoilers:

On 9/28/2017 at 5:42 AM, Stark said:

Also, it would be new.  Brandon has not written a true female villain yet.  I mean, we have Shan Elariel, who was minor at best.  Bands of Mourning spoiler:

  Reveal hidden contents

Telsin is also there, but most of her is behind the scenes, so she is not really compelling other than being Wax's sister

 

Just wanted to point out that in Shadows of Self

I personally think Mraize works better as an antagonist for Shallan. Everyone else has an antagonist they know to some extent, who is similar yet different.

I really doubt that the title of high prince is going to stick with Adolin. Not enough chaos. Brandon already has an interesting story arc to flesh out, and Adolin avoiding everything just because of his title as a Highprince is not only uninteresting, I think it would be bad writing.

So either Dalinar is going to use his power as Highking to punish Adolin, or Adolin is going to degrade mentally, and mess up as High Prince, maybe stepping down himself.

I really don't know what's going to happen, I believe Brandon is gonna lull us into comfort, and pull the rug out from underneath us.

Now we just need to estimate the volume.

In regards to healing and the Honorblade... could someone just give Adolin the Honorblade and some stormlight? Until Renarin figures out progression, or another radiant who can heal *cough* Lift *cough* shows up, would the Honorblade be a good substitute healer?

1 minute ago, Hischier said:

Also, it'd help to know who the victim (Perel) is. 

For some reason I never thought to check on that. Gonna go edit it in.

1 minute ago, Cosmere nerd said:

Who is glys and who is zahel?!?!?! I feel like I'm not remembering a couple of major characters. Please respond!

Zahel is the ardent who trained Renarin, Kaladin, and Adolin. We see him in WoR.

Glys is Renarin's spren. We haven't really seen him. I think he is only mentioned a couple times.

27 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Ugh. That makes sense, its so bloody Dalinar. 

Never mind that Elhokar has shown 0 ability at anything, and the end of the world is not a good time to coddle grown ups where that same Hnorblade could save thousands of lifes in the right hands. I also can't help that feel that Kaladin should have a say on who gets the Honorblade, given he is the only Windrunner around, shouldn't he pick someone he feels can embody the ideals? Otherwise they may be falling down the "too much power in the wrong hands" again. 

I'm pretty sure that somewhere in WoK or WoR it mentions that Elhokar does have a considerable amount of skill with a blade. Though because I don't have a source I will treat that as false until I can find the passage. Nonetheless I would say that giving Elhokar the honorblade does make some sense. He is a very important man, and the honorblade may be one of the best ways to protect him. Maybe in the future we will find that it is best used by someone else, but for now the choice seems sound. He could even lend it for battles in which he won't participate.

So, for those of us who have read up to chapter 9 of Oathbringer, I'm sure there is a lot of speculation as to who this new copycat killer.

Here's my take on it. First, I'm gonna make a list of suspects, divided between those who saw Sadeas's body, and those who had the information network necessary to know the details of the murder.

*Warning, long post ahead*

People who saw the body: 

Adolin, Renarin, Shallan, Dalinar, Navani, Teft, Sigzil, Lopen, Sebarial, Palona, and Kalami. Other than that we know a few members of Sadeas's army found him, a female scout found him, and that there were a couple other members of bridge four.

People who likely learned the details of Sadeas's death:

Aladar and his daughter, May both learned about it. Ialai and Elhokar both also learned of the death. Aside from that I don't think I could be faulted for assuming that the Ghostbloods, Sons of Honor, and Diagram all have adequate information networks to learn the details of the murder.

So we now have a list of suspects. From this list I'm going to knock off those who have no foreseeable reason to have participated in this murder.

I'm going to immediately knock out the female scout, Sadeas's soldiers, Sebarial, Palona, and Kalami. While they technically could be the copy cat killer, we don't have any motive or plot driving reason for any of these people to have killed the victim (Perel).

Suspects left: Adolin, Renarin, Shallan, Dalinar, Navani, Teft, Sigzil, Lopen, other Bridge Four members, Aladar, May, Ialai, Elhokar, the Ghostbloods, the Sons of Honor, and the Diagram.

Shallan is pretty easy to knock out, since we saw the copy cat murder from her perspective, and it definitely didn't seem like she did it. I think it's fair to toss her out.

Dalinar is another contender that I highly doubt did it. He has no reason to murder someone under an ally, and this runs contrary to his goals and who he is.

May has been mentioned fairly often recently, which is interesting, but I don't think she arranged for the murder. We don't know enough about her to be sure, but it seems like a stretch that she would do this. Her father is allied with Sebarial, and in charge of investigating these cases anyway. I'd say she probably didn't do it.

Bridge Four is full of misfits, but I don't think any of them have any reason to have done this. It would certainly be out of character for Teft, Rock, Sigzil, and Lopen. I highly doubt anyone from Bridge Four did it. It is worth noting that Bridge Four was the first to find the body however.

Suspects remaining: Adolin, Renarin, Navani, Aladar, Ialai, Elhokar, The Ghostbloods, The Sons of Honor, The Diagram

Alright, let's go in order now.

Adolin: I've seen this theory floating around, So I figured I'd let Adolin get this far. I, however, don't think Adolin is capable of this, or has any reason to do so. He feels immense guilt for having murdered Sadeas, why would he go around killing random people? Unless he absolutely went crazy I just don't see this happening.

Verdict: Highly improbable

Renarin: This is another common theory, with more merit in my opinion. Renarin has certainly been acting very strangely recently, and it seems like he might know that Adolin killed Sadeas. Furthermore, we don't really know Renarin that well, and don't know what he is capable of. Maybe he killed this guy to throw others off the trail. Nonetheless, I think there are several reasons to doubt this theory. A couple of my points against it might be unsubstantiated, such as me believing that Renarin isn't capable of cold-blooded murder. My biggest problem with this theory is the description of the crime. It seemed like there was an extended fight, and the Perel was stabbed in the eye. I don't think that Renarin has the skill necessary to kill someone that precisely, or even to properly put up a fight. Stormlight at the time was limited, and neither of his surges would help him in a fight.

Verdict: Possible, but not plausible

Navani: Unlike Dalinar, I could see Navani having somebody murdered to protect Adolin. She might even have the connections to make it happen. The problem is, I doubt she would target Perel specifically, and I find it unlikely that she has discovered Adolin's role is Sadeas's death yet.

Verdict: Unlikely

Aladar: Assuming Aladar is truly allied with Dalinar I find it very unlikely that he had any role in the murder. Even if he isn't as loyal as many believe I think he wouldn't act on his own initiative to participate in these murders. I do however, think there is a possibility that Aladar is working with Ialai. I think he may have gone to fight with Dalinar as a spy for Sadeas, and that's why Sadeas knew to come to Urithiru. I think that there is only a 5% chance that this is true, but if it is, then his position as High Prince of Information would be incredibly useful to Ialai, so she could draw out the murderer of Sadeas, and assassinate high profile targets, all the while being protected from suspicion by Aladar. Unlikely, but an interesting thought.

Verdict: Unlikely

Ialai: I personally think that the Ialai theory holds decent merit. She could be doing this to make sure that there is an investigation of who murdered Sadeas, or as a form of revenge. The issue is that it seems a bit obvious, and the motives don't quite line up.

Verdict: Plausable 

Elhokar: I originally had a pretty cool theory about why Elhokar would have this done, but I seem to have forgotten it. This could be a power play to undermine Dalinar's rule I guess. I'll post my other reasoning if I remember it. I personally think Elhokar isn't subtle enough to have planned it, but it could be a cool twist.

Verdict: Possible, but not plausible

The Ghostbloods: Of the three secret societies, I think this one is most likely to be involved. Either as a form of control over Shallan, or knowing that they have a scapegoat, and thus letting them kill targets without as much suspicion. 

Verdict: Plausible.

The Sons of Honor: No foreseeable motive, but a possibility. We don't know enough.

Verdict: Unlikely

The Diagram: No foreseeable motive, but a possibility. We don't know enough.

Verdict: Unlikely

*Wipes forehead*

What a long post. Tell me your thoughts!

For those who didn't want to read, here is my conclusion.

Highly improbable: Adolin, Shallan, Dalinar, Bridge Four, Sebarial, Palona, Kalami, Female Scout, Sadeas's Soldiers, May

Unlikely: Navani, Aladar, The Diagram, The Sons of Honor

Possible, but not plausible: Elhokar, Renarin

Plausible: Ialai, The Ghostbloods

I don't know why, but the fact that weapons have spren, and that they gain gender based on perception gives me the feeling that Adolin will be able to awaken his blade.

2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I think that option 4is the most likely. 

We know from the annotations of Warbreaker that if someone draws Nightblood and survives, he forms a bond with them, and bonds on Roshar will act similar to a Nahel bond. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1048#25

So Szeth needs to find some way to temporarily invest, and draw Nightblood to survive, and then his bond should allow him to infuse with Stormlight. 

The WoB implies that the powers granted would not be the same. So he should gain something... But as to what? He may be accepted into the Skybreakers, but as far as the technical definition of a "Skybreaker" goes, he won't actually be one. 

I'm fairly certain that Nightblood itself is going to prevent him from attracting a traditional spren. The possibility of being eaten is probably a fairly good deterrent. 

You make a some good points here. I don't really have any issues with Szeth gaining a unique pairing of surges. The question is, what surges will he gain, and more importantly, how will he progress as a Radiant? Would he have to swear oaths in order to strengthen his powers? Does he have to seek to "destroy evil"? And how would this affect his progression as a character?

Regarding Szeth. I think that there are four paths that his character can take with his powers.

Minor Warbreaker spoilers

28 minutes ago, maxal said:

Alright. I will apologize right away for the double-posting, but I was pondering about the Dustbringer issue while doing my afternoon run and I came out with an idea, a theory. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

For the get going, I will say the Dustbringers remain a nebulous order: we aren't quite sure what characteristics or personality traits they are looking for into proto-knights. Of course, they were said to be "brave" and "obedient" which means we can expect the growth of a Dustbringer to pass by affirming those traits in a more fulsome manner, but what kind of individuals are they more likely to bond in the first place? From the Elsecallers, we know it may not be as straight-forward as choosing someone merely being brave as instead of merely looking for "wise" individuals, Elsecallers are on the look out for "able to rationally think without emotions". Hence, it isn't as obvious as it seems which is why I think we may be making false route in saying: "Adolin (or anyone else) is brave, he ought to be a Dustringer".

I will thus leave let this topic to rest: we simply do not know.

Instead, I will focus onto which character a progression implying becoming "brave" and "obedient" in a stronger manner is actually both relevant and interesting.

Surprising the twists and turns a mind may make while casually doing the easy run... as I ended thinking Elhokar would be a good candidate. Yes, you heard me, Elhokar.

Why?

I have read a lot of comments from various posters arguing Elhokar's character progression necessarily implies him learning how to become a stronger leader, a better king, perhaps not a great one, but an apt one. The opposing side of the argument generally has him take a turn for the worst while an in-between team somewhat root for him to become a Lightweaver. Except Lightweavers do not strike me as neither a good nor an interesting pick: Elhokar seems quite aware of his own failings, just reluctant to do something about it. I also fail to see what it would add to the story, but Dustbringer...

What if Elhokar's character progression doesn't pass through him either becoming an antagonist or becoming a good leader? After all, truth is not everyone is cut out to be a leader and all the work and the good will in the world may never turn Elhokar into a charismatic leader inspiring respect. I really do not see those qualities blossoming out of thin air, especially not with Elhokar's intimate wish to be seen as both glorious and heroic. Therefore, what if Elhokar's greatest decision ought to be to... step down from the throne, to allow those who are better than him at ruling to actually rule, to admit he simply does not have it and what if by doing so, he actually gives him the room he lacked to finally grow?

I mean, Elhokar is paranoid, he fears assassins within the shadows, he doesn't seem particularly brave, but really most of these issues he has comes from the fact his father was assassinate for no reason he can understand. Hence, he fears it will happen to him, but if he steps down... then he does not have to fear assassins anymore. What if removing this thread allows him to find his courage and to start the long trek towards becoming... something else. 

What better character than Elhokar to learn how to be more brave and to grow into becoming obedient. Obedient because he sucks at decision-making, but he may be very good at following orders, once he gets out of his head God wants him to be in charge. Now wouldn't it be interesting if by abdicating, if by allowing his uncle to take over, if by stopping trying to be something he will never be, Elhokar actually becomes something he can be, a deadly Dustbringer and, oddly enough, the hero he yearned to become. And he could be great in this role: clearly he wants to fight, we see it at the chamsfiend hunt, but he is so stuck up into being a king, he can never really let this side of him shine. Surely he was trained, his father was talented, his uncle is talented, his cousin is talented: Elhokar has to have some skill.

I say, let's root for a more out-of-the-box character progression here and have an unlikely pick evolve into becoming this "brave" and "obedient" terrifying Dustbringer. So I have to ask again, how about Elhokar as a Dustbringer?

I like this theory. Elhokar is an interesting character for me, because I personally am really invested in what will happen to him, but at the same time no theories I have come across or thought of have really felt satisfying. This is one I can get behind.

Its logical, but also defies audience expectation. Good work! I'm not sure how exactly it would be implemented, but its what I think I will be rooting for.

13 minutes ago, maxal said:

To all, on Kaladin not having anymore PoV within Part 1: COME ON. Of course he does. Part 1 has 32 chapters, it won't be 26 more chapters of JUST Dalinar.

To be fair, both Shallan and Adolin are both viewpoint characters, and flashbacks are their own thing, so it would be shared among the four of them.

Nonetheless I agree with you. Brandon wouldn't leave his readers with that sort of "cliffhanger" for 26 or more chapters, especially this early in the book. Furthermore all the other viewpoint characters are in Urithiru and all should be interacting on a relatively consistent basis. I think it would be a really weird move for Brandon to not give us more Kaladin chapters in part 1.

19 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

Anyone else like Moash besides me? I often like it when heroes have dissenters...no one reason he should have immediately put his faith in Kal. I'm really looking forward to his PoV chapters.

Now, I may be misinterpreting what you have said about Adolin (murderer & cowardice, etc.) as you disliking him, but if that is the case (You not liking Adolin)...

How can you like Moash?! He planned on killing Elhokar in cold blood, who isn't nearly as evil as Sadeas, (who is responsible not only for the massacre of an entire army, but also several assassination attempts, and an institutionalized system of murdering his own citizens!) and almost killed his best friend. Whether or not he pulled it off isn't relevant, since he would have followed through if Kaladin hadn't stopped him. What part of that is any better than what Adolin has done so far?  

Wayne would probably love bridge four. So many accents!

39 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I mean, I'm sure Brandon has had the ending of this book in his head for a long time. He must be so thrilled to finish it. Of course writing the ending will go fast  

Did somebody mention the thrill?

Nah, seems legit