Calderis he/him Posted September 12, 2018 Posted September 12, 2018 34 minutes ago, goody153 said: Either Taln has the honorblade and just dismissed it. Or the ShinJa's (yes you saw what i did there) have it. Agreed. I honestly think the first is more likely, but I want it to be the second.
goody153 Posted September 12, 2018 Posted September 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, Calderis said: Agreed. I honestly think the first is more likely, but I want it to be the second. I really don't want it to be the former but it sounds such a Sanderson move if Taln just never summoned it again after dismissing. It is such a classic chekov's gun implementation that Sanderson loves.
+Spicker Posted September 12, 2018 Posted September 12, 2018 Does Taln say he is still bonded to his honor blade? If so, it could be him dismissing it or hiding it somehow. Like others have said, couldn't Taln just call back his sword if he wants it? We know they don't disappear if dropped, but can they be dismissed and called like shardblades? Of course, there is the possibility that someone affected his bond with the honorblade. I am leaning towards the latter after reading this WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3571 I just have so many questions about how honorblades even work, and there isn't much consistency in the WoB's about it. Sometimes he says humans can bond with honorblades, sometimes he says they cant, and at one point he says a person doesn't need to bond with it, they just need to hold it. That aside, we know that the heralds have a bond with them until they actively break it. Yet, Nale mentions the connection to his blade being broken at one point. So is there another way for a herald-honorblade bond to break? Is that even necessary for someone else to use the blade (can someone use a blade still bonded to a herald, assuming there is such a bond)? If Taln's bond was severed by something else, is it related to the honorblade being switched out?
Nothing-Ridiculous he/him Posted September 12, 2018 Posted September 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Spicker said: We know they don't disappear if dropped, but can they be dismissed and called like shardblades? Of course, there is the possibility that someone affected his bond with the honorblade. They can be willed to appear and disappear, but I'm not sure if this requires bonding it or not, I would think it does but I'm not sure.
+Child of Hodor Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 On 9/11/2018 at 8:02 PM, goody153 said: Either Taln has the honorblade and just dismissed it. Or the ShinJa's (yes you saw what i did there) have it. I never thought of him just dismissing it! *facepalm* He's so out of it most of the time. Then Hoid is the most likely person to give him the dead shardblade. Maybe Hoid got Taln to dismiss it then gave Taln a blade that Hoid had bonded. One of the first things Hoid probably did upon arrival in Roshar was get himself a dead blade. Hoid was waiting there for Taln, he had to have some purpose. Brandon said he didn't "switch" the blades which would be technically correct. The biggest hurdle to figuring out who switched the blades is that the switch happened fairly quickly. Whoever made the switch would have to realize Taln was back and where he was. Ash knows immediately when Jezrien is killed, so the Heralds may have known Taln was back. However, Ash needed to find out where Taln was from Mraize. They don't seem to have Herald GPS. Unless he always comes back in Kholinar because he is the Herald of War and Alethela is the Silver Kingdom of warriors. Quote Every pasture needs three things. Flocks to grow, herdsmen to tend, and watchers at the rim. We of Alethela are those watchers--the warriors who protect and fight. We maintain the terrible arts of killing, then pass them on to others when the Desolation comes. ” — An unnamed female Radiant[1] But Hoid knew he was coming and safeguarded the blade by giving him another while Taln dismissed his. I agree with @Calderis it's not as fun as the Shin.
+Spicker Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said: I never thought of him just dismissing it! *facepalm* He's so out of it most of the time. Then Hoid is the most likely person to give him the dead shardblade. Maybe Hoid got Taln to dismiss it then gave Taln a blade that Hoid had bonded. One of the first things Hoid probably did upon arrival in Roshar was get himself a dead blade. Hoid was waiting there for Taln, he had to have some purpose. Brandon said he didn't "switch" the blades which would be technically correct. This would be consistent with the WoBs about it. I always found it odd that Brandon has said that Hoid doesn't have the blade, but then specifically adds that he may or may not have had it one point (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/87/#e5773). We know Hoid wasn't the one who did the actually switching (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/224/#e6885). This would hold true if you don't consider what happened to be actual switching, more like giving up a shardblade. Brandon would not answer whether or not Hoid knows who took the blade (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/60/#e8850). After reading these, I think it is fair to be suspicious of Hoid being involved somehow. Although I will say that I got the impression that maybe Hoid knew about some things, but was not really involved in how it went down. My big thing is that I don't have a good answer as to why Hoid would give him a shardblade. I could see him wanting to help the Herald if it aligned with his goals, but enough to give up a very powerful object? Maybe... For that matter, where would anybody get a spare shardblade from? Whether it was stolen, won fairly, or given freely by the legitimate owner, I feel like it would eventually become news that a shardbearer no longer has their blade. As I continue reading, I will definitely keep a look out for any word about a missing shardblade, because someone is bound to notice. Of course, there could be a cache of secret blades (or even just one blade) somewhere that wasn't public knowledge but someone knew about (this could fit with Hoid). Or someone is missing a blade and they are just not significant enough for our characters to hear about it.I will also watch for any information we have on the fake honorblade, and maybe we can know who its original owner really is. I think this would give us a clue about what really happened. I feel like there is something here, but there are just too many holes still for me to be completely convinced. 1
+Child of Hodor Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Spicker said: My big thing is that I don't have a good answer as to why Hoid would give him a shardblade. I could see him wanting to help the Herald if it aligned with his goals, but enough to give up a very powerful object? Maybe... For that matter, where would anybody get a spare shardblade from? Too many people saw Taln with the a blade when he smashed open the gate in front of those guards. Hoid didn't want anyone stealing it. If Taln just dismissed it people could try to coax him into summoning it again and taking it from him. They would then notice it didn't have a gemstone to bond it like the dead blades do and it would lead to them asking too many questions. By giving him a dead blade for people to steal it cuts them off from trying to get him to summon his honorblade because they think they've already stolen his blade. In this Shardcast they lay out the case for there being a lot of unaccounted for dead blades. Hoid could have found an unaccounted for one. http://www.17thshard.com/news/shardcast/shardcast-the-missing-shardblades-r421/
+Spicker Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 20 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said: Too many people saw Taln with the a blade when he smashed open the gate in front of those guards. Hoid didn't want anyone stealing it. If Taln just dismissed it people could try to coax him into summoning it again and taking it from him. They would then notice it didn't have a gemstone to bond it like the dead blades do and it would lead to them asking too many questions. I did think about this, and I can see it happening. I still want to know why he would care so much about Taln keeping his blade? Is it because he doesn't want people knowing about the Heralds and the honorblades yet? Or is it because almost all the other Heralds don't have their's and this will be significant in the future to stopping Odium? Besides being the occasional mentor to some of the characters, we don't usually see Hoid directly help or intervene with the main conflict. He's usually doing his own thing, but he's clearly invested in destroying Odium. As a reader, we don't always get to see Hoid's involvement. So if Hoid did want Taln to keep his blade, how does that help Hoid and his cause more than other ways he could have intervened? 32 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said: In this Shardcast they lay out the case for there being a lot of unaccounted for dead blades. Hoid could have found an unaccounted for one. Yes a few of the characters know that there are more shardblades than publicly known. That is kind of my point, so I guess I was unclear about that the first time. Only a selective group of people could have known about more shardblades, and even less would know where to find one. Hoid would be a viable candidate. I do think that Hoid leaving a blade fits with the information we have. There is just so much that we don't know that I could also see something else happening.
Calderis he/him Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Spicker said: I still want to know why he would care so much about Taln keeping his blade? Ash recognized his drawing style in the pictures that Jasnah circulated of her and Taln and called him Midius. Hoid called Taln "Old friend" in that epilogue. I don't think that was just a turn of phrase.
+Child of Hodor Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 41 minutes ago, Spicker said: I did think about this, and I can see it happening. I still want to know why he would care so much about Taln keeping his blade? Is it because he doesn't want people knowing about the Heralds and the honorblades yet? Or is it because almost all the other Heralds don't have their's and this will be significant in the future to stopping Odium? Besides being the occasional mentor to some of the characters, we don't usually see Hoid directly help or intervene with the main conflict. He's usually doing his own thing, but he's clearly invested in destroying Odium. As a reader, we don't always get to see Hoid's involvement. So if Hoid did want Taln to keep his blade, how does that help Hoid and his cause more than other ways he could have intervened? Yes a few of the characters know that there are more shardblades than publicly known. That is kind of my point, so I guess I was unclear about that the first time. Only a selective group of people could have known about more shardblades, and even less would know where to find one. Hoid would be a viable candidate. I do think that Hoid leaving a blade fits with the information we have. There is just so much that we don't know that I could also see something else happening. 36 minutes ago, Calderis said: Ash recognized his drawing style in the pictures that Jasnah circulated of her and Taln and called him Midius. Hoid called Taln "Old friend" in that epilogue. I don't think that was just a turn of phrase. Yeah, Hoid probably wasn't waiting for him specifically to safeguard the honorblade. He's met the Heralds before, he knows Taln has been gone an incredibly long time. Maybe he was more there to see what kind of shape he's in and look after his well being generally, giving him the dead blade so no one stole the honorblade was a small part of that. He stayed with Taln until he was well on his way to the asylum in Dalinar's camp. Hoid stuck around long enough to see that Taln was being cared for by people he trusts (Dalinar).
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