The Set’s plan

[Malzera]

I’ve been thinking about what the sets plans are regaurding the women they have kidnapped. What if they don’t just intent to breed allomancers but to sacrifice them thru hemalurgy to make another Mistborn. Not an inquisitor like marsh, that can be controled by Harmony but to breed a Mistborn.

we know that on Scadrial investiture is in some way, hereditary. If you spike people with hemalurgy and then have a child will the bit of investiture granted by the spike also be passed to the child. This could be used to condense the investiture down the hereditary line to make a Mistborn that harmony can’t control.

They might be trying to do the same with Feruchemy to try and make another lord ruler though this is just speculation on my part

another way they could try is to have a nicrosil compounder. This could also be their intent. We know they were after the bands of mourning as a short cut of some kind. What if a person that could compound investiture could create another metalmind like the bands. We know that you either have 1 or all of the allomantic or feurocemic powers and separation depends on how invested you are. If you can compound it you could theoretically gain all the powers and then mass produce bands to make an army of awesome power.

alternatively if someone did compound investiture could they ascend in some way. Could this be this be their plan. Their way to take some of the power from Sazed. And possible divide ruin and preservation again. We know odium was trying to stop shards from combining again so that he would be the greatest power (or something along those lines) and so he destroys other shards but doesn’t want to take them up as it would change the intent of his shard

Edited April 6, 2018 by Malzera

[Spoolofwhool]

3 hours ago, Malzera said:

I’ve been thinking about what the sets plans are regaurding the women they have kidnapped. What if they don’t just intent to breed allomancers but to sacrifice them thru hemalurgy to make another Mistborn. Not an inquisitor like marsh, that can be controled by Harmony but to breed a Mistborn.

we know that on Scadrial investiture is in some way, hereditary. If you spike people with hemalurgy and then have a child will the bit of investiture granted by the spike also be passed to the child. This could be used to condense the investiture down the hereditary line to make a Mistborn that harmony can’t control.

It's possible, but it seems like heredity of hemalurgically-granted traits is somewhat rarer than heredity of other traits.

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Would Inqusitors' kids have Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Not usually. It happens sometimes, but not usually. He then mentioned a little about sDNA, but that it's not inherited as much as it is when it's natural.

source

Quote

Questioner

You’ve spoken before how DNA exists on multiple different levels in your magic systems. I was curious about something else that I think I read that that the Hemalurgy system actually splices something into the DNA - so what does that imply for heritability of those?

Brandon Sanderson

So, it is not inheritable when it's Hemalurgic because it's splicing. It's basically ripping off a piece of the soul and spiking it on someone else's. So, it would not transfer.

source

 

 

3 hours ago, Malzera said:

alternatively if someone did compound investiture could they ascend in some way. Could this be this be their plan. Their way to take some of the power from Sazed. And possible divide ruin and preservation again. We know odium was trying to stop shards from combining again so that he would be the greatest power (or something along those lines) and so he destroys other shards but doesn’t want to take them up as it would change the intent of his shard

Personally I doubt it would be possible to burn enough metal to actually cause a non-negligible change on Preservation's power. This would be analogue to people being born with breath on Nalthis impacting Endowment's power and I don't think that that's possible. Generally speaking, I think the amount of power that magic systems use is magnitudes upon magnitudes less than the total power of a shard, akin to trying to drain the oceans one cup at a time.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Just as a point you should understand, the amount of MATTER in the cosmere is finite too. As is the amount of energy.

Worrying that Endowment will run out of Breaths to give is a little like worrying that the amount of carbon on Earth will run out because people keep being born.

source

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Spoolofwhool

[Malzera]

The set seem to have plans that will take generations to complete. If a nicrosil twin born compounded, they could possibly become another lord ruler who could then make more items like the bands. We know from the original trilogy that a shard can have part of themselves hidin away and out of reach, and that when Elend and the other atium mistings burned the entire atium storage, it did not immediately go back to ruin. It was out of his grasp for a time. If The Set can store enough of the the investiture it could possibly siphon harmony’s power for long enough to leave an opening for another shard (presumably allied with odium) to strike and shatter what is left.

[Spoolofwhool]

Maybe. But I don't think it would ever be possible for allomancy to ever take enough investiture from Preservation to cause a significant enough loss of power that another shard could take advantage of. This would be a plan which wouldn't require tens, if not hundreds, of generations, to accomplish. Even if you had a unlimited amount of time, I think the amount of metal which that would be required would become a constraint. Metal to burn to continue drawing power, and metal to store in, which would eventually start taking up room, another constraint, would make this unfeasible. The costs of this would beggar the Set, no matter how much money they have. Creating another fullborn, or multiple, wouldn't help this succeed. While a stronger allomancer would draw investiture more quickly, that's still a small increase on an insignificant amount, even if you had them burning all 16 metals at once, and then money would still be an issue.

I think the reason why the part of Ruin's investiture which formed atium didn't return to him when burnt is because it was still separated from him, and it returned to separated portion that Preservation had made, and was forming the atium in the first place. He needed the atium to re-integrate that investiture back into his greater part. 

[Malzera]

I think you are missing a bit of the point. Vin and others ascended they took up massive amounts of investiture. Unlike a gold compounder witch would need to store the exes, investiture is a bit different. The investiture would not be store so much in metal but in people. You would just need to store what you can in a metal and burn it then retain the compounded wealth. The roof of this type of compounding would be the shards power itself  

[Calderis he/him]

@Malzera "investiture" is a very broad description. I don't think that this would function in the way you're wanting it to.

In the example of Vin, the investiture that she was using at the time was the literal physical manifestation of Preservation, and even then she was only able to ascend because the the vessel of that Shard intentionally passed control of the power to her at that moment. If that hadn't occurred, the mists vaporizing her body would have killed her. 

Nicrosil is no different than any other form of Feruchemy, you store an attribute, and tap it in order to draw strength through an expenditure of the stored investiture. It does not rewrite your spiritweb. It will not cause you to retain any of the power used. 

[Spoolofwhool]

3 hours ago, Malzera said:

I think you are missing a bit of the point. Vin and others ascended they took up massive amounts of investiture. Unlike a gold compounder witch would need to store the exes, investiture is a bit different. The investiture would not be store so much in metal but in people. You would just need to store what you can in a metal and burn it then retain the compounded wealth. The roof of this type of compounding would be the shards power itself  

The massive amounts of investiture that Vin took up was, as I've stated previously, incomparable to the amount obtained from compounding. You would probably need someone compounding for centuries or even millennia to even obtain that amount of investiture. Either way, as Calderis said, that power would then dissipate like a normal feruchemical charge leaving behind changes on the body as it wouldn't have been designed to do what the Well of Ascension did to Vin and Rashek. Additionally, in their case, that power still wasn't permanently trapped in them, but dissipated rapidly, returning to Preservation, leaving slight traces.

Overall, neither allomancy nor feruchemy, in their base states, are designed to cause permanent changes to a person. While such changes can be achieved, such as in Spook's case with savantism, it took a long time and it seems likely that the actual changes were caused by a little amount of investiture remaining in the body. To permanently bind investiture obtained through either art into a person would require some sort of hacks to one of both system, and either way, as Calderis pointed out, would probably damage or destroy the body. The only way that we know of to permanently keep investiture from allomancy or feruchemy is in a metalmind.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Spoolofwhool

[Dawnshard]

I think people on both sides are making assumptions about the Brandon's rules for his magic. I think we need more information first.

[Spoolofwhool]

6 hours ago, Dawnshard said:

I think people on both sides are making assumptions about the Brandon's rules for his magic. I think we need more information first.

Like which assumptions? Either way, we're making these assumptions based on the information we have at hand. While we may be wrong, there's nothing wrong with coming up with ideas based on the information presented so far. Just continually waiting for information before speculating means that we'll probably never make any speculations since at what point will we have enough to come up with an idea?

[Strifelover]

On 4/7/2018 at 7:32 AM, Dawnshard said:

I think people on both sides are making assumptions about the Brandon's rules for his magic. I think we need more information first.

I don’t think we need to wait for MB Era: 4 before we can come up with wacky theories, that’s half the fun of being a fan of a series in progress!

Back on topic though, I’m skeptical that any level of compounding could ever lead to an Ascenion or a significant drop in a Shard’s investiture. You would think if either of those things were possible, the Lord Ruler would’ve already done them. His mind was greatly expanded and he was able to make himself an incredibly powerful Mistborn and he compounded for over a thousand years. If any of that was possible, he’d be the guy to do it.