[OB] Origins of spren

[WalterWhiteVevo]

Before reading Oathbringer my running theory for what spren were was that they were essentially shards of Honor. Shards of a shard if you will; tiny pieces of Adonalsium. However, after reading Oathbringer it seems like Honor was creating spren even when he was alive along with Odium and possibly even Cultivation. I was also wondering why spren don't appear in the cosmere outside of roshar. I'm somewhat confused about this topic and would love to hear what you all think.

[aemetha he/him]

Spren aren't quite like that. Spren are comprised of investiture, and all investiture belongs to a shard of adonalsium, so in that respect they are shards of shards (which is actually called a splinter). It isn't the intent of a shard that causes a spren to manifest with an identity though, it is the cognitive presence of an idea, one which is compatible with the intent of the investiture composing it. Radiant spren are actually composed of both Honor and Cultivations investiture in varying amounts depending on the type of spren it is. So, while a shard provides the substance of a spren, it is the collective thoughts of sapient creatures that binds the investiture in a form and allows it to have an identity, rather than just free investiture of a particular intent.

Spren actually predate the shattering, but all pre-shattering investiture was assigned to a shard, so they now all belong to a shard. They are unique to Roshar because that's how Adonalsium ran things before the shattering. There are similar types of phenomenon on other worlds though, such as the Seon's of Sel.

[Leuthie]

Spren predate the Shards, although the Shards have changed them.

Spren are a consequence of Roshar's Physical and Cognitive Realms being a bit too close.  There's enough overlap to give Physical form to strong, shared thought.  Once these Cognitive entities take Physical form, they effectively exist separate from the thoughts that created them.  However, they are strongly tied to the ideas of their creation. When such ideas or feelings are expressed strongly enough, Spren can enter and even affect the Pysical realm, albeit in a very limited way.

Conversely, native species of Roshar have developed ways to use these Cognitive entities to make use of Investiture, usually by trapping a Spren in a gemheart.  Investiture is supplied by regular storms (which also predate the Shards, but have since been coopted by them), which "leak" Investiture in the form of Stormlight.  Odium has created his own storm to provide Investiture for his creations in the form of Voidlight.

I'd provide support for all that, but I'm on my phone and exceedingly lazy

[WalterWhiteVevo]

47 minutes ago, aemetha said:

Spren aren't quite like that. Spren are comprised of investiture, and all investiture belongs to a shard of adonalsium, so in that respect they are shards of shards (which is actually called a splinter). It isn't the intent of a shard that causes a spren to manifest with an identity though, it is the cognitive presence of an idea, one which is compatible with the intent of the investiture composing it. Radiant spren are actually composed of both Honor and Cultivations investiture in varying amounts depending on the type of spren it is. So, while a shard provides the substance of a spren, it is the collective thoughts of sapient creatures that binds the investiture in a form and allows it to have an identity, rather than just free investiture of a particular intent.

Spren actually predate the shattering, but all pre-shattering investiture was assigned to a shard, so they now all belong to a shard. They are unique to Roshar because that's how Adonalsium ran things before the shattering. There are similar types of phenomenon on other worlds though, such as the Seon's of Sel.

Ok that's the best explanation I've seen so far, thanks for the help

[WalterWhiteVevo]

42 minutes ago, Leuthie said:

Spren predate the Shards, although the Shards have changed them.

Spren are a consequence of Roshar's Physical and Cognitive Realms being a bit too close.  There's enough overlap to give Physical form to strong, shared thought.  Once these Cognitive entities take Physical form, they effectively exist separate from the thoughts that created them.  However, they are strongly tied to the ideas of their creation. When such ideas or feelings are expressed strongly enough, Spren can enter and even affect the Pysical realm, albeit in a very limited way.

Conversely, native species of Roshar have developed ways to use these Cognitive entities to make use of Investiture, usually by trapping a Spren in a gemheart.  Investiture is supplied by regular storms (which also predate the Shards, but have since been coopted by them), which "leak" Investiture in the form of Stormlight.  Odium has created his own storm to provide Investiture for his creations in the form of Voidlight.

I'd provide support for all that, but I'm on my phone and exceedingly lazy

This is a great explanation thank you. I don't remember reading anything claiming the cognitive and physical realms in roshar were any closer though. But it's entirely possible I just missed it.

[Leuthie]

There's a WoB from tWoK that says something to that effect. If I get a chance, I'll look for it and probably find out that I'm totally misremembering the quote