17th shard How does worldhopping work?

[Nohadon he/him]

So it's commonly assumed that all the characters who cameo from other shardworlds are worldhoppers, yes? as we don't know where this power comes from, or how alot of it works, not every character we see cameoing in other books (Demoux, Gallod, Mraize, etc, etc) should be worldhoppers.

What i think is actually happening is that only some of them are actual worldhoppers (hoid, nightblood and other important characters) but the others use either (A) a device that allows them to enter the cognitive or spiritual realm, as distance is different there, allowing them to go to different shardworlds (similar to how Jasnah's transportation surge works) or (B) that a worldhopper can take multiple people they are linked with (eg: touching them, or someone else who is touching them) and they only have a couple worldhoppers.

if it does happen to be option (A) , that would explain why and how the 17th Shard can get to other shardworlds easily. Additionally, i think that worldhopping is orginally a yolen-based magic, although we see non-yolen's using it.

[Pagerunner he/him]

We've seen Hoid worldhop in several places (Secret History, Elantris Bonus Scene, Way of Kings), and he always does it through a Perpendicularity (a.k.a. Shardpool). He goes from the PR to the CR through a planet's Perpendicularity, travels through the CR to where he wants to go, and transitions back through the local Perpendicularity. This isn't a magic system, per se; anyone can do it, it's just wonky cosmere Physics. Before Kelsier destroyed the Pits (and their associated Perpendicularity), there was a whole 'mercantile ecosystem' through there. Worldhopping isn't a form of teleportation to literally 'hop' between worlds; it's just hyperspace where you have to walk. So, it looks like you do have the gist of the idea, just without catching that that's all worldhopping ever was.

[Calderis he/him]

"worldhopper" just refers to traveling between Shardworlds. 

The method, in which traversing the Cognitive Realm is probably the most common, is irrelevant. 

It's meant only to describe someone who has left their home world. So by definition, anyone we see on a planet other than their own is a worldhopper. 

[Ammanas]

9 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

Before Kelsier destroyed the Pits (and their associated Perpendicularity), there was a whole 'mercantile ecosystem' through there. 

Not that I'm doubting you, but where are you getting this information from?

[Ari he/him]

10 hours ago, Nohadon said:

So it's commonly assumed that all the characters who cameo from other shardworlds are worldhoppers, yes? as we don't know where this power comes from, or how alot of it works, not every character we see cameoing in other books (Demoux, Gallod, Mraize, etc, etc) should be worldhoppers.

What i think is actually happening is that only some of them are actual worldhoppers (hoid, nightblood and other important characters) but the others use either (A) a device that allows them to enter the cognitive or spiritual realm, as distance is different there, allowing them to go to different shardworlds (similar to how Jasnah's transportation surge works) or (B) that a worldhopper can take multiple people they are linked with (eg: touching them, or someone else who is touching them) and they only have a couple worldhoppers.

if it does happen to be option (A) , that would explain why and how the 17th Shard can get to other shardworlds easily. Additionally, i think that worldhopping is orginally a yolen-based magic, although we see non-yolen's using it.

Having a power that lets you travel in the Cognitive Realm directly, such as Jasnah's, is certainly the easist way to become a worldhopper.  However, there's no indication that such a journey is quick or easy under your own power, as we have some indications that serial worldhoppers all have some method of dramatic life extension. I imagine most people taking even a one-way trip between planets are doing so with the aid of Initiated magicians from other worlds, or using Invested devices or cognitive tricks of the trade to aid their travel.

I believe Hoid is the only person whose origin we have semi-confirmed as on Yolen. Khriss, for instance, is certainly a serial worldhopper of some sort, appearing in White Sand, apparently leaving Scadrial in Secret History, writing the various Ars Arcana, and having come back in time for Wax and Wayne's adventures to quiz Wax on being a Twinborn. She comes from Taldain originally, not Yolen.

edit:

1 minute ago, Ammanas said:

Not that I'm doubting you, but where are you getting this information from?

That's a quote from Hoid to Kelsier in Secret History.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Ari

[Ammanas]

@Ari Thanks! For some reason I really zoned out during portions of that audiobook...I don't normally do that and it was a interesting story. I need to read my physical copy sometime soon.

[Nohadon he/him]

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

"worldhopper" just refers to traveling between Shardworlds. 

The method, in which traversing the Cognitive Realm is probably the most common, is irrelevant. 

It's meant only to describe someone who has left their home world. So by definition, anyone we see on a planet other than their own is a worldhopper. 

Wait, really? i'm not really familiar with worldhoppers so i read about it on the coppermind and it seemed to be a form of investiture akin to teleportation, i may have misinterpreted the article though.

here's the link: http://coppermind.net/wiki/Worldhopping ( the first line says: "Worldhopping is an ability which is used to move from place to place in the Physical Realm instantaneously")

Edited July 15, 2017 by Nohadon
spelling error/mistake that made the post hard to read

[Calderis he/him]

Just now, Nohadon said:

Wait, really? i'm not really familiar with worldhoppers so i read about it on the coppermind and it seemed to be a form of investiture akin to teleportation, i may if misinterpreted the article though.

here's the link: http://coppermind.net/wiki/Worldhopping ( the first line says: "Worldhopping is an ability which is used to move from place to place in the Physical Realm instantaneously")

I'm pretty sure that's inaccurate. 

Most of the worldhoppers we see travel by physically moving through the Cognitive Realm, which is by no means instantaneous travel. 

[Ari he/him]

Nah, it's literally just "any ability that lets you travel between planets." That coppermind intro was probably written before we actually knew some of the methods involved or got the WoB from Brandon about it being helpful to be an immortal if you wanted to go Worldhopping multiple times, and so they had probably just assumed it happened instantaneously.

[Nohadon he/him]

Just now, Calderis said:

I'm pretty sure that's inaccurate. 

Most of the worldhoppers we see travel by physically moving through the Cognitive Realm, which is by no means instantaneous travel. 

oh, ok. so, how would large groups of people worldhop? i'm assuming that they just all take a perpendicularity in one group and just stay together till they get to whatever planet they choose to, but what would you think about theory (A) ? where the 17th shard can use devices that imitate a perpendicularity.

[Calderis he/him]

Just now, Nohadon said:

oh, ok. so, how would large groups of people worldhop? i'm assuming that they just all take a perpendicularity in one group and just stay together till they get to whatever planet they choose to, but what would you think about theory (A) ? where the 17th shard can use devices that imitate a perpendicularity.

Plausible. We haven't seen such a device, but with Aon Plates (which would need an Elantrian to activate) and fabrials, I'm sure it will become a possibility. 

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him]

I'd just like to mention that theoretically it would be possible for an Elantrian to worldhop directly from Elantris to another shardworld if he knew the exact vector and used Aon Tia. It would, however, be a one way trip, and might not succeed, as we are not sure what the limitations of Aon Tia are. And I'm fairly sure that Elantrians can bring other people along when using Aon Tia.

[Calderis he/him]

58 minutes ago, Lord Maelstrom said:

I'd just like to mention that theoretically it would be possible for an Elantrian to worldhop directly from Elantris to another shardworld if he knew the exact vector and used Aon Tia. It would, however, be a one way trip, and might not succeed, as we are not sure what the limitations of Aon Tia are. And I'm fairly sure that Elantrians can bring other people along when using Aon Tia.

This would be so insanely difficult. The math would have to be done to determine the position, direction and distance of travel incorporating he motion of both planets to determine their positions at the time of use, and then the Aon would need to be drawn and activated at precisely the right moment. 

It could work theoretically, but I wouldn't want to be the first to try it in application. 

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him]

Just now, Calderis said:

This would be so insanely difficult. The math would have to be done to determine the position, direction and distance of travel incorporating he motion of both planets to determine their positions at the time of use, and then the Aon would need to be drawn and activated at precisely the right moment. 

It could work theoretically, but I wouldn't want to be the first to try it in application. 

The use of fabrials could help this calculation process if you wanted to make this a regular thing. But I agree, this would be insanely hard. At the same time, Seons seem to have a really easy time with knowing where things are. They might be a help.

[Nohadon he/him]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

I'm pretty sure that's inaccurate. 

Most of the worldhoppers we see travel by physically moving through the Cognitive Realm, which is by no means instantaneous travel. 

just as a side note, i updated the worldhopping page on the coppermind wiki, thanks for the information!

[Calderis he/him]

Just now, Nohadon said:

just as a side note, i updated the worldhopping page on the coppermind wiki, thanks for the information!

Anytime!