Taravangian Theory (Spoilers)

[NovaSeeker he/him]

So, after another reread, I began to form a theory about Taravangian. His boon from the Night Watcher was to gain the capacity to save the world. As we know from Book 2, this manifested in his "condition", where his intelligence varies by day. But so does his compassion and empathy. While super intelligent, he is amoral. On his most intelligent day, he was so unimaginably brilliant that he was thousands of times smarter than the average man, and created the diagram. This, ostensibly, was the blueprint by which he could save the world.

But that day of unparalleled brilliance must have also been, comesurately, his most evil. The most evil a man can be. The most devoid of compassion, righteousness, or morals. Such is the nature of his curse/boon from the Night Watcher.

I think the most tragic thing is that Taravangian was given the capacity to save the world. Truly and honorably. I think he's just decided to follow the wrong plan. Everything he's done, every evil action, has been the result of following a plan he decided on in one single day. A single day in which he was an utter, complete sociopath. On his dumber days, when he's not so dumb as to be drooling, he's consigned to anguished sorrow over the evil he's done because he's followed that one day's plan. But what if, on his less intelligent days, he was given the capacity to care enough that, using the resources he has as a king, he could really make a difference? But since he started following that damnation diagram, he's too paralyzed with guilt to do anything useful now when he's that compassionate? More than that, why is he trusting his most ethically bankrupt self with the safety of all humankind? I just think it's a massive mistake. He should be following a different plan.

 

I dunno, this isn't really that important an observation. But it's about 4 am and I just needed to share my thoughts, haha ^^;

Edited October 16, 2016 by NovaSeeker

[AngelEy3 he/him]

I agree with your take on Taravangian's "condition." I've often found the intelligence/sociopath correlation to be a little too common in real life, so it was very easy to view him from that angle. 

[Yata he/him]

First of all I like your idea, or at least the possibility it offers (take an upvote).

But in the end even if possible, I don't think it's a concrete possibility for a couple of reason (to be honest it is just a reason, the other is just "something that to me you put it wrong").

Be uncapable of Emphaty doesn't turn someone into an Evil man/woman. It's just cold and "immune to the feeling" but in the end He would be choose to use them (the other's ones) for his agenda. In the Diagram there are surelly plans who exploit other's emotivity and would be impossible to predict something for years without the "emotion factor", the others have feel.
But much more, The Nightwatcher have to be a perfect Future Sight to choose to give him a "perfect empathy" to use it as a tool. In the end it would need an already perfect plan made by the Nightwatcher to made your theory works

[Krandacth]

I second @yata in this, being a sociopath doesnt make one evil, but does skew your values. It essentially removes individual emotion as a consideration. If the sociopath has positive aims, such as the "greater good" or "saving the world" then they arent evil, though they also arent likely to be a hero. Think anti-heroes like Sherlock.

On the other hand, there is the possibility that what he needs to be able to save the world to get over the pain hes caused enough to properly apply his compassion to the Diagram. Or, if the Diagram is actually someone else's plan that Taravangian tuned into at his most dimwitted and empathetic, he also needs his intellect to interpret it. Either way, I see him as a good man in both states, and needing both sides of himself, each tempering the other, to save the world. His curse, in this case, seems simply that each side of himself has to deal with the frustrating/painful actions of the other.

[Zathoth]

While Taravangian misunderstanding what is his boon and his bane is somewhat poetic I think it is a little more complicated than that.

He needs both his intellect and his empathy to save the world, The Nightwatchers joke is that he cant have both at the same time.

[Savanorn he/him]

3 hours ago, NovaSeeker said:

So, after another reread, I began to form a theory about Taravangian. His boon from the Night Watcher was to gain the capacity to save the world. As we know from Book 2, this manifested in his "condition", where his intelligence varies by day. But so does his compassion and empathy. While super intelligent, he is amoral. On his most intelligent day, he was so unimaginably brilliant that he was thousands of times smarter than the average man, and created the diagram. This, ostensibly, was the blueprint by which he could save the world.

But that day of unparalleled brilliance must have also been, comesurately, his most evil. The most evil a man can be. The most devoid of compassion, righteousness, or morals. Such is the nature of his curse/boon from the Night Watcher.

I think the most tragic thing is that Taravangian was given the capacity to save the world. Truly and honorably. I think he's just decided to follow the wrong plan. Everything he's done, every evil action, has been the result of following a plan he decided on in one single day. A single day in which he was an utter, complete sociopath. On his dumber days, when he's not so dumb as to be drooling, he's consigned to anguished sorrow over the evil he's done because he's followed that one day's plan. But what if, on his less intelligent days, he was given the capacity to care enough that, using the resources he has as a king, he could really make a difference? But since he started following that damnation diagram, he's too paralyzed with guilt to do anything useful now when he's that compassionate? More than that, why is he trusting his most ethically bankrupt self with the safety of all humankind? I just think it's a massive mistake. He should be following a different plan.

 

I dunno, this isn't really that important an observation. But it's about 4 am and I just needed to share my thoughts, haha ^^;

Hmmmm.

The big issue is that the Diagram was a brilliant plan -so far as the things it did plan. Vargo has gone from the unimportant king of an unimportant place to one of the most powerful men in the world.

In addition he has discovered secrets that most scholars would only dream of. 

Could he have done better? Maybe, but whose plan would he follow?

Plus I think he wasn't at his most evil, he might not have been compassionate, but his end goals have always been relatively lofty. 

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by Savanorn

[Spoolofwhool]

I disagree with the labeling of Taravangian with evil. Being without empathy doesn't instantly make someone evil, in general. Good and evil are subjective tags which cannot be applied objectively. 

The problem with the suggestion of him following a different plan, is the fact that he probably doesn't have one. Before he the day of the Diagram, he probably was just researching about the Desolations and a bit of everyone, and collecting Death Rattles, hoping to find the path that would allow him to save some. The Diagram was then written, and he found something he could use to save enough people. Is this Diagram flawed? Probably, he wasn't completely omniscience and couldn't see the complete path, just specific points in it. Is it compromised because he was morally and ethically compromised when he made it? Possibly, but if what the Diagram is directing is absolutely necessary to save, then no. Without lacking ethics and morals, he wouldn't have been able to make a plan which involved killing his friends. 

[marianmi]

The Diagram was not a bad plan to save the world. You can argue that his actions are "evil", but in the grand scheme of things (best case: 90% of human population dies, worst case: all humans die) he's doing good.

The problem with the Diagram is that while there are small variations that while they don't matter individually, their *compounding* matter on a large scale. Each small change now introduces an exponential effect later. I think Brandon is thinking of giving us a Diagram butterfly effect.

Unfortunately, Taravangian was not "thousands of times" smarter when he wrote the Diagram, but something like "billions of billions of times". And while coming from Nightwatcher, which is good with predicting the future, the Diagram is not about *predicting* the future as is more about *calculating* the future. And while now Taravangian has some days when he's "thousands" or "millions" of times smarter than average, unfortunately he's so set on *following* the diagram and afraid of changing it (probably because he's incapable of calculating the consequence of a small change) that he's not considering the effect of *compounding* changes.

[Krandacth]

He isn't afraid of changing the Diagram. The primary use he has for death rattles is stated to be to "augment" the Diagram.

[dionysus]

On 10/16/2016 at 4:12 AM, Zathoth said:

While Taravangian misunderstanding what is his boon and his bane is somewhat poetic I think it is a little more complicated than that.

He needs both his intellect and his empathy to save the world, The Nightwatchers joke is that he cant have both at the same time.

This has been my theory as well, I think I have even posted it before. There is even a bit of evidence for that theory. He has flaws when it comes to estimating how emotional matters will affect the outcomes of decisions. In one of his brilliant days, he ordered all dumb people sterilized and had no thought how his people would overthrow him if he did that.

Think about it, what type of allies is he going to end up with being as brutal and unsympathetic as he is. His inner circle is necessarily all going to be sociopaths like him. Allies who are honorable, self-sacrificing, and generally good people must be lied to to maintain their loyalty or killed if they find out. The diagram may be brilliant, but it is implemented by flawed human instruments. His keeping his current level of intrigue and misdirection hidden from important players cannot last. I really think the conclusion to Taravangian's story is one where he has sown the seeds of his own destruction.

Quote

He isn't afraid of changing the Diagram. The primary use he has for death rattles is stated to be to "augment" the Diagram.

Interestingly, the original diagram calls the death rattles a distraction, chapter 82. On the other hand, right before that it says to watch Moelach.

Edited October 17, 2016 by dionysus

[Spoolofwhool]

2 hours ago, dionysus said:

This has been my theory as well, I think I have even posted it before. There is even a bit of evidence for that theory. He has flaws when it comes to estimating how emotional matters will affect the outcomes of decisions. In one of his brilliant days, he ordered all dumb people sterilized and had no thought how his people would overthrow him if he did that.

Honestly, the way I see, he has issues with predicting how people act emotionally when he's directly involved. Once he isn't directly involved, things go the way he plans. Take Jah Keved for example. He predicted how the people would act once he killed their Highprinces, which was definitely an emotional response resulting in the destruction of the kingdom. His subsequent appearance and aid inspired belief in him, just as the Diagram predicted. Also, it's possible that at the heightened intelligence when he believed he could make edicts to have people commit suicide, he was unable to calculate emotional responses and just believed everyone would act as logically as he did. However, when he reached the level of intelligence of the Diagram, he was properly able to take emotional responses into account.

I do agree though that what he is doing is going to self-destruct eventually. I think there's a least one key piece of information about the Desolations which he was not aware of when he wrote the Diagram, leading to an extremely-incorrect educated guess, which as a result of his devotion to following it, will result in possible devastation. 

[AngelEy3 he/him]

On 10/16/2016 at 6:14 PM, marianmi said:

The Diagram was not a bad plan to save the world. You can argue that his actions are "evil", but in the grand scheme of things (best case: 90% of human population dies, worst case: all humans die) he's doing good.

 

Journey before destination -

"There are always several ways to achieve a goal. Failure is preferable to winning through unjust means. Protecting ten innocents is not worth killing one. In the end, all men die. How you lived will be far more important to the Almighty than what you accomplished."

[BeskarKomrk he/him]

41 minutes ago, AngelEy3 said:

Journey before destination -

"There are always several ways to achieve a goal. Failure is preferable to winning through unjust means. Protecting ten innocents is not worth killing one. In the end, all men die. How you lived will be far more important to the Almighty than what you accomplished."

This quote doesn't mean Taravangian's way of doing things is wrong; it's just a different set of ethics. Journey before destination is Honor's way of doing things, because, you know, Honor. Doesn't mean it's the best/only way of getting things done, and it seems likely that Cultivation did not agree with Honor about the best way to handle things. Because while how you lived may matter more to the Almighty than what you accomplished, the people who would be saved by the Diagram might see things a little differently.

[AngelEy3 he/him]

5 minutes ago, BeskarKomrk said:

This quote doesn't mean Taravangian's way of doing things is wrong; it's just a different set of ethics. Journey before destination is Honor's way of doing things, because, you know, Honor. Doesn't mean it's the best/only way of getting things done, and it seems likely that Cultivation did not agree with Honor about the best way to handle things. Because while how you lived may matter more to the Almighty than what you accomplished, the people who would be saved by the Diagram might see things a little differently.

It was just the first thing I thought of. I really should have added some narration to my quotation. On another aside.... The concept of the good of the many over the good of the few, in my mind, is not a noble cause unless the few are the ones makes the decision to take one for the team. If anyone else decides that fate for them, it becomes tyrannical. Basically what I'm saying is that two wrongs don't make a right. No matter who feels good about it from any point of view. 

However,  "The Diagram was not a bad plan to save the world."  I'll give you at least that much. Strictly for the purposes of world saving, it seemed to be going well.