Yata he/him Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, Ari said: Please read the WoB I quoted earlier that directly contradicts what you're claiming. A Mistborn is more invested than a Misting, and a Misting is more invested than an innate human. Actually I have to find the WoB but I am sure about. While they burn metals you have right but while they don't use allomancy they don't have any extra investiture. Of course a Mistborn becomes more invested than a Misting while burn metals. He may burn multiple metals at once and recive multiple stream of Preservation's power. And a Lerasium mistborn may also burn a greater amount of metals to get more power. But the "ability to burn" don't made you high invested. It's a coded part of your spiritweb like anyone else. If the Connections in Spiritweb are Investiture worty and old guy will be more invested than a newborn because in his life he made a lot of new Connection. Forgive me if at the moment I can't find the reference, but I think we have a Wob who said that Lerasium Mistborn>Mistborn>Misting>Nice Guy relationship is about their connections to Preservation (and the power they may tap from him) not about their level of innate investiture. I think we may see it in SH where someone didn't notice anything strange or different about Allomancer and Feruchemist who are not using their powers (I stay vague for the guys that didn't read the book yet...It's quite obvious the context for the others)
Ari he/him Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Yata said: Actually I have to find the WoB but I am sure about. While they burn metals you have right but while they don't use allomancy they don't have any extra investiture. Of course a Mistborn becomes more invested than a Misting while burn metals. He may burn multiple metals at once and recive multiple stream of Preservation's power. And a Lerasium mistborn may also burn a greater amount of metals to get more power. But the "ability to burn" don't made you high invested. It's a coded part of your spiritweb like anyone else. If the Connections in Spiritweb are Investiture worty and old guy will be more invested than a newborn because in his life he made a lot of new Connection. Forgive me if at the moment I can't find the reference, but I think we have a Wob who said that Lerasium Mistborn>Mistborn>Misting>Nice Guy relationship is about their connections to Preservation (and the power they may tap from him) not about their level of innate investiture. I think we may see it in SH where someone didn't notice anything strange or different about Allomancer and Feruchemist who are not using their powers (I stay vague for the guys that didn't read the book yet...It's quite obvious the context for the others) Fine, I'll repeat myself: (emphasis mine) Quote Elantrians are not slivers. Mistborn trilogy spoiler warnings follow! The Lord Ruler was indeed a Sliver. So was Vin. For the rest, I would say probably not. What defines an actual Sliver of Adonalsium is not as clear-cut as you might think. It's a term that in-universe people who study this have applied to various existences and states. Every single person on the world of Scadrial has a bit of Leras in them—a bit of the power of Preservation. Every single person has a bit of Ati in them. There's a certain threshold where these scholars would call you a Sliver of Adonalsium. But I would say that any regular Misting is probably not a Sliver. A full Lerasium Mistborn is getting closer, but people who have held one of the powers are what would probably be termed a Sliver by the definitions. If you hold all the power that makes you a Shard, but the Lord Ruler held a little bit of it and then let it go. From then on they referred to that change in him—the residue, what was left—as a Sliver. When he held it he became the Shard for a short time, and Vin was a Shard for a short time. After Vin gave up the power, what Kelsier is at the end of the trilogy—that's a Sliver of Adonalsium. How are Lerasium Mistborn closer to being a sliver than Mistings if having allomantic powers doesn't mean you've been further Invested than people are innately? Brandon isn't just telling us here that being a Sliver is part of a continuum, he's saying that people who are Initiated with magic are more invested than your average human is. As for Secret History, yes, the protagonist can't tell anything special about Mistborn or Feruchemists just by looking at them from the Cognitive Realm. But you'll note that Mistborn and Feruchemists "hang around" longer in a certain situation. (seeing we're trying to stay light on M:SH spoilers) And Slivers hang around even longer still. Hmmm... it's almost like they're both more invested than your average person, huh?
Yata he/him Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Ok it took me a while ( I have really good memory but it's hard to find a specific reference on the forum, often I read a WoB and in my mind I remember it as concept not the exact wording). This WoB has spoilers from Mistborn SH and BoM and some SA books: Spoiler Other guy: Would it be harder for her to soulcast a mistborn? Brandon: Yes, investiture disrupts investiture. It's harder for her to even soulcast a regular person than, say, a rock. Other guy: Is a Mistborn invested? Brandon: The Mistborn, how their burning the metal, you're right. They are not specifically invested when they are not burning. When the investiture becomes active, the yes. Before, no, you're right on that. SPOILERS FOR SH OR BOM Me: So Kelsier, he stayed around longer, not because he was invested, but because he had the ability to become invested? END OF SPOILERS Brandon: Over time using the magic will invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either (He cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought) so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the mistborn are as invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the spirit web. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the spiritual realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them (like soulcasting or forgery) is harder. Guy: Would they be harder (kek) with more Stormlight or Metals burning. Brandon: Yes, yes. That would increase the difficulty ratio. For instance, wearing shard plate is gonna be a great barrier, right, and things like that so yea. The problem is like, invested is the wrong term for that, their spirit web is connected in different ways. (I deem this "Spirit Web Magical Connectivity Diversity, or SWMCD". This resume what I want to say. An Allomancer isn't high Invested and he became Invested only when he burns metals. But the usage of Allomancy twist the user's spiritweb (forging new connection) that made them capable of "hang around" longer. I am sorry if before I made myself unclear. 2
Rupizzle3 Posted August 29, 2016 Posted August 29, 2016 Getting back to Hoid, is it possible he is trying to get a connection to all 16 shards and then steer all of the shards to destroying each other at the same time so he can pick them all up at once? I believe in M: Sh it mentioned that Ruin could not leave Scadrial (Sp). If so, I think someone would have to pick them all up at the same time or in the same place if they wanted to become the next Adonalsium. If Hoid is trying to become the new Adonalsium (which I don't know if I like that or not), then it seems like he would have to do it this way. We have seen him take an interest in how things are playing out and I though that I had read that everything will come to a head in the last mistborn trilogy. If this is the case. I could see this being Hoid's end goal. Slight manipulations hear and there to drive everything towards all the shards being freed at the same time and then taking all of them in. If the shards all negate each other then it could be possible for Hoid to maintain his personality and then, hopefully, be a good god. Or I guess, they could cause him to be useless and incapable of really doing anything like what is happening to Harmony. All that seems certain is that Hoid has some interest in how things play out but that no one (other world hoppers) really knows what it is.
Ari he/him Posted August 29, 2016 Posted August 29, 2016 19 hours ago, Yata said: Ok it took me a while ( I have really good memory but it's hard to find a specific reference on the forum, often I read a WoB and in my mind I remember it as concept not the exact wording). This WoB has spoilers from Mistborn SH and BoM and some SA books: Hide contents Other guy: Would it be harder for her to soulcast a mistborn? Brandon: Yes, investiture disrupts investiture. It's harder for her to even soulcast a regular person than, say, a rock. Other guy: Is a Mistborn invested? Brandon: The Mistborn, how their burning the metal, you're right. They are not specifically invested when they are not burning. When the investiture becomes active, the yes. Before, no, you're right on that. SPOILERS FOR SH OR BOM Me: So Kelsier, he stayed around longer, not because he was invested, but because he had the ability to become invested? END OF SPOILERS Brandon: Over time using the magic will invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either (He cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought) so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the mistborn are as invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the spirit web. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the spiritual realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them (like soulcasting or forgery) is harder. Guy: Would they be harder (kek) with more Stormlight or Metals burning. Brandon: Yes, yes. That would increase the difficulty ratio. For instance, wearing shard plate is gonna be a great barrier, right, and things like that so yea. The problem is like, invested is the wrong term for that, their spirit web is connected in different ways. (I deem this "Spirit Web Magical Connectivity Diversity, or SWMCD". This resume what I want to say. An Allomancer isn't high Invested and he became Invested only when he burns metals. But the usage of Allomancy twist the user's spiritweb (forging new connection) that made them capable of "hang around" longer. I am sorry if before I made myself unclear. You need to re-read that quote, Yata, he's pretty clear that there is something going on over time, as he caveats it with "they're not specifically invested" when they're not using their power, and then goes on to compare how invested mistborn are to Knights Radiant. So they definitely are invested, and I didn't really care whether it was when they were actively using their powers or not, because they are still invested some of the time, which is all I claimed. The twisting of the spirit web you talk about sounds exactly like the kinda thing that Brandon was talking about earlier when he mentioned "residual investiture" and "expanding your soul." in terms of Splinters. Oh look, here we are, back on a continuum again, even if you don't want to call them "invested." 27 minutes ago, Rupizzle3 said: Getting back to Hoid, is it possible he is trying to get a connection to all 16 shards and then steer all of the shards to destroying each other at the same time so he can pick them all up at once? I believe in M: Sh it mentioned that Ruin could not leave Scadrial (Sp). If so, I think someone would have to pick them all up at the same time or in the same place if they wanted to become the next Adonalsium. If Hoid is trying to become the new Adonalsium (which I don't know if I like that or not), then it seems like he would have to do it this way. We have seen him take an interest in how things are playing out and I though that I had read that everything will come to a head in the last mistborn trilogy. If this is the case. I could see this being Hoid's end goal. Slight manipulations hear and there to drive everything towards all the shards being freed at the same time and then taking all of them in. If the shards all negate each other then it could be possible for Hoid to maintain his personality and then, hopefully, be a good god. Or I guess, they could cause him to be useless and incapable of really doing anything like what is happening to Harmony. All that seems certain is that Hoid has some interest in how things play out but that no one (other world hoppers) really knows what it is. In Way of Kings Hoid seems very dubious about recombining Adonalsium, and his imagery is pretty similar to Frankenstein's monster, a being reassembled from parts. I mean, it's possible he's trying to talk himself out of it, I suppose, but I would guess he has other long-term goals at this stage. (such as opposing Rayse and/or Bavadin specifically)
Recommended Posts