Timeline Clue

[+Kolten]

I found a interesting clue regarding the cosmere timeline! I have not seen anyone else mention this so I thought I would point it out

SH spoilers

This is Khriss talking to Kelsier, discussing the shattering of adonalsium the fate of his world

Quote

“I’m sorry, Survivor,” Khriss said softly. “Perhaps if I knew more, perhaps if I could convince the Eyree to answer my questions . . .” She shook her head. “It will happen slowly, Survivor, over months. But it is coming. Ruin will consume this world, and the man once known as Ati won’t be able to stop it. If he even cared to.”

The fact that the Ire seems to have info that Khriss has not figured out about might imply that either White Sand happens significantly after elantris, or else the Ire are around from before the fall of elantris. It could also just show that Khriss is not all knowing and some secret groups have some specialized knowledge that she does not, but to me this gives a little more credibility to the Ire being a very old group

[Yata he/him]

The Elantrian (also the new of of Elantris book) have libraries of old pre-reod knowledge. They have a "starting point" much advanced than Khriss. An Elantrian is also a Magic User with tons of flexibility in his Magic System...They may test and try a lot of things better than someone like Khriss.

Last but not for its importance, the IRE are probably Elantrian from a pre-reod time. They may have left Sel to hunt down Preservation centuries/millenia before we see them... After all the prize is worth thousands of years of wait.

PS: Peter once said that Elantris is before White Sand, but he can't be sure and after White Sand release they would canonize the timeline... But some thing have to be checked before that

Edited July 24, 2016 by Yata

[Young Bard he/him]

1 minute ago, Yata said:

PS: Peter once said that Elantris is before White Sand, but he can't be sure and after White Sand release they would canonize the timeline... But some thing have to be checked before that

That's odd. I'm sure there's a WoB that says Dragonsteel and White Sand are the first two canonically. At a guess, I'd say Peter made a mistake.

[Khyrindor he/him]

4 minutes ago, The Young Bard said:

That's odd. I'm sure there's a WoB that says Dragonsteel and White Sand are the first two canonically. At a guess, I'd say Peter made a mistake.

I think he said Dragonsteel and Liar of Partinel were first actually, and they haven't nailed down White Sand.

[Yata he/him]

8 minutes ago, The Young Bard said:

That's odd. I'm sure there's a WoB that says Dragonsteel and White Sand are the first two canonically. At a guess, I'd say Peter made a mistake.

mmm I will search the direct reference.

This is not the peter's one but, Brandon said this:

Quote

No, like for instance, Way of Kings and Alloy of Law are pretty close to one another but Elantris is fairly far before them. So far I’ve written them chronologically basically, except I’ve skipped certain stories, like there’s a series called White Sand which is in the middle there somewhere which will actually be a jump back in time when I end up doing it and some things like that. And Dragonsteel is like way at the beginning which I’ll eventually do but I’ve done them chronologically so far.

Maybe I am reading wrong the sentence. But seems to say (talking about SA or AoL) that Elantris is very before those two series and there is White Sand in the time between Elantris and those stories.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Yata

[Ari he/him]

I definitely found reference to White Sand being after Elantris in the past, but I don't know if that's canonical.

[Yata he/him]

29 minutes ago, Ari said:

I definitely found reference to White Sand being after Elantris in the past, but I don't know if that's canonical.

It's not canonical yet... they said that the rightful timeline would be released after White Sand (maybe in the Novella I don't know)

[Radiant Returned he/him]

Yeah the problem of where White Sand fits in seems to be the biggest question mark in the cosmere chronology. Just have to wait and see. 

As far as the Ire I never thought they were pre-Reod. Pretty sure that they would've had problems being a thing during the 10 years of no magic, and if they were around back then, I would think they're cosmere knowledge would've enabled to lead them to figure out the chasm line relatively quickly. So all that makes me think that they are definitely post-Reod Elantrians. 

One thing to keep in mind is we don't know how large of a time gap is in between Elantris and Mistborn. It could be hundreds to even thousands of years. They would've had plenty of time after the Reod to re-discover the magic system and become this advanced. 

[+Kolten]

14 minutes ago, Radiant Returned said:

As far as the Ire I never thought they were pre-Reod. Pretty sure that they would've had problems being a thing during the 10 years of no magic, and if they were around back then, I would think they're cosmere knowledge would've enabled to lead them to figure out the chasm line relatively quickly. So all that makes me think that they are definitely post-Reod Elantrians. 

Assuming they wanted to, who knows how long they have been living in the cognitive realm, and what their agenda is. We don't see them use any aons, it seems more like they are working with raw investiture itself. Maybe they consider their plans bigger than a ten year setback on sel

[Radiant Returned he/him]

1. The Reod made all Elantrians, whether in the city or not, lose their power. So if they were alive during the Reod it stands to reason that they would've lost their power, and that link that ties their fortress to "a place between worlds" in the Cognitive Realm presumably would've stopped working? 

2. It also seems a stretch to me that if they were off-world and somehow their magic continued to work without Elantris, that they wouldn't have friends/family in Elantris. The Elantrians in the city were brutally murdered then barred inside and left to starve. It seems illogical to think that some powerful Elantrians like the Ire wouldn't take the time to go and try and help their brethren and/or fix the problem. Especially if they're That cosmere aware it would seem that they would've figured out that all magic on their home planet is geographically based so it shouldn't take a bunch of Elantrian scholars too long to figure out they might need to add the huge chasm to Aons. The in-book reason for why early Elantrians didn't do this was because of the initial shock and quick riots by the people. But a group outside from those dangers would presumably be able to figure it out pretty easily. 

[+Kolten]

Hmm, wasn't the problem with the reod that the chasm line caused elantris to disconnect from the cognitive realm? Supposedly all the dor was still sitting up there, and maybe the Ire had figured out a way to use it without aons once they were in the cognitive realm . . .  As for wanting to help their fellow elantrians, maybe they are a different faction. I imagine that pre reod elantrian society was fairly political,  perhaps they were availing themselves of an opportunity to eliminate some rivals . . . Of couse all of this is rampant speculation, they just seem kind of sinister to me. 

in any case here is a WoB 

Quote

MAIL-MI

Are the Ire old enough to have gone through the Reod?

BRANDON SANDERSON

They're really old. Really really really really old. *signs book* Really old.

Doesn't exactly answer the question, but still I am leaning toward them being pre-reod

[Ari he/him]

I would say that's actually Brandon hinting that they may be even older than Pre-reod. Definitiely a big kick in the teeth to people wanting a post-Reod Ire, as that's about as close as you can get to denying it without actually denying it.

[Radiant Returned he/him]

Or it could be Brandon screwing with people and throwing people for a loop while avoiding the question. Elantris could take place thousands of years before Mistborn, that would qualify to me as "really, really, old"

Still, I agree that that WoB seems to lean more toward the Ire being pre-Reod. If that is the case, I hope there's a book with them or at least an explanation later for what they were doing mid-Reod, none of the explanations I've read or thought of seem viable enough to explain. 

[mattstocum]

On 7/25/2016 at 9:00 PM, Radiant Returned said:

Or it could be Brandon screwing with people and throwing people for a loop while avoiding the question. Elantris could take place thousands of years before Mistborn, that would qualify to me as "really, really, old"

Still, I agree that that WoB seems to lean more toward the Ire being pre-Reod. If that is the case, I hope there's a book with them or at least an explanation later for what they were doing mid-Reod, none of the explanations I've read or thought of seem viable enough to explain. 

The Aonic people found Elantris pre-built and abandoned (http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=768#2). Is it possible that the Ire are the builders of Elantris* (maybe not the specific people we met in SH, but they could be part of the same people)? If so, it's possible they left Sel at some point after the Splintering of Devotion and Dominion, but before the Reod (perhaps long before). That might explain why they didn't run back to Elantris to fix the city.

* Of course the use of the phrase, "merciful Domi," by one of the Ire suggests that at least some members joined after the Aonic occupation of Elantris, since Domi seems to be a combination of Dashu and Omi after Korath encountered the Elantrians. Alonoe's name, however, suggests that she may be really really really old, if we assume the lake was named after her, and not the other way around.

Edited July 27, 2016 by mattstocum
Corrected Shattering to Splintering