Deathspren

[Khyrindor he/him]

Apologies if this has been said before, but I think I made a minor connection.

 

It is theorized that Moelach, one of the Unmade feeds off of the Investiture of the dying in a given area, in order to glimpse the future. The Death Rattles are a side effect of this.

 

Taravangian only mentions that Moelach causes the Death Rattles, but the rest hasn't been confirmed unless I missed something, I just consider it likely.

 

EDIT: Found this epigraph that I'd forgotten:

 

There is one you will watch. Though all of them have some relevance to precognition, Moelach is one of the most powerful in this regard. His touch seeps into a soul as it breaks apart from the body, creating manifestations powered by the spark of death itself. But no, this is a distraction. Deviation. Kingship. We must discuss the nature of kingship.

 

            --From the Diagram, Book of the 2nd Desk Drawer: paragraph 15

 

Words of Radiance chapter 82, page 986, Hardback. Emphasis mine.

 

So, Deathspren. My little theory here is that Deathspren are what Moelach uses to feed of of the Investiture of the dying. It would explain why Syl was fighting them off when Kaladin was near death in Way of Kings, and why only the dying can see them. They are special spren that form a temporary bond with someone who is dying, and I would even go so far as to saying that they are of Odium, since the Unmade probably are. People besides Kaladin cannot see Syl unless she wants to be seen (except people who are more sensitive to the Cognitive Realm like the Listeners and the Unkalaki), so it would make sense that Odium has similar spren.

 

One possible chink in this is that other people could see Pattern no problem, so not all of Honor/Cultivation spren are invisible. 

 

Thoughts?

Edited November 14, 2015 by Khyrindor

[Yata he/him]

Nice catch, but there is a problem.

 

Also if Syl didn't want Kal dead. She didn't say anything aganist the Deathspren. We saw after how she reacts to the presence of a Odium-Spren. And seems strange to me that she never point something strange in the Deathspren. They are in a warcamp and every day a lot of people die. Syl have to see Deathspren all the time.

 

But you have right about the Spren's visibility. Every type of Spren had his own rules. Honorspren may be visible and invisible at will, Truthspren are always visible and Wylde (whateverheisSpren) can't turn himself visible to the humans. I want to put also Ebony that seems to can be visible or invisible at will but we had no sure proof.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Yata

[Khyrindor he/him]

The stormspren were just that, stormspren. Listeners can bond all sorts of spren for different forms. I think, as an example, they bond creationspren for art form, yes? I think that each spren is on a line somewhere between Odium, Cultivation and Honor, so perhaps the stormspren just come from Odium, whereas, if my theory is true, deathspren come right from the Unmade. Perhaps the deathspren are an Unmade on their own and aren't even related to Moelach.

 

As we've already clarified, each spren can be invisible or visible depending on type, so really the fact that Syl can't see other's deathspren doesn't disprove my theory. For all we know, she could only see Kaladin's because of the bond.

[Yata he/him]

My point was about the fact that she had a true fear for Odium and when she see the Void-spren and the Everstorm She stated that "they don't belong to us". Also Wylde made a clear cut beetwen the Spren and the Void-Spren.

Therefore is unlikely that something like the DeathSpren passed unseen to all the Radiant Spren we saw until now.

 

About the visibility problem, a Spren may se all other Spren always. A people just little within the cognitive realm (as Rock) may do and it's too strange that a Spren can't do the same.

[Shardbearer he/him]

I have to agree with Yata, it doesn't seem like deathspren are related to Odium or the Unmade.

[Mr. Fluffy he/him]

I feel like this is really off topic, but what would happen if a Radiant were to bond with a Deathspren? I mean, I don't think it would be possible, because they would have to be close to death. But what if a Radiant were to have some type of disease or illness, that allowed them to be on the constant verge of death. Would they then be allowed to keep or preserve a bond that results in them becoming one of the Knights Radiant?

Edited November 18, 2015 by cdavies12

[Moogle]

I feel like this is really off topic, but what would happen if a Radiant were to bond with a Deathspren? I mean, I don't think it would be possible, because they would have to be close to death. But what if a Radiant were to have some type of disease or illness, that allowed them to be on the constant verge of death. Would they then be allowed to keep or preserve a bond that results in them becoming one of the Knights Radiant?

 

Only special spren allow you to be a Radiant - presumably, deathspren are not one of these and are considered "lesser" spren. But you could bond one!

 

Question

Could any type of spren bond with a person (even if the results wouldn't be a Knight Radiant)? Or only the ones associated with a branch of the Knights?

Brandon Sanderson

Ooh, that's an excellent question. This is something theoretically possible for a lesser spren to achieve.

(source)

 

Question

Does each specific order have their own spren that they would bond?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Each order has a spren that is distinctive. All Windrunners come from wind— from honorspren.

(source)

[CHOUTAGOD he/him]

I want to Bond with a Hungerspren!!! We are ONE!! Food is king!

[Mr. Fluffy he/him]

Only special spren allow you to be a Radiant - presumably, deathspren are not one of these and are considered "lesser" spren. But you could bond one!

[Mr. Fluffy he/him]

What would be created by the bond though? Would it be the same as a Radiant's bond, just without the powers allowed by a Radiant's?

[Moogle]

What would be created by the bond though? Would it be the same as a Radiant's bond, just without the powers allowed by a Radiant's?

 

We don't know. We do know you can get powers, from eg. Seons:

Q: If an Elantrian bonded to a Seon and traveled to Roshar, would that act as a Nahel bond?

A: It would act very very similarly, yes. But it would be like… it wouldn't necesarily do the exact same things. It would be treated the exact same way, but wouldn't grant the same powers.

(source)

 

However, this WoB is questionable - traveling to Roshar is not vital, Brandon was apparently just answering if the Seon bond was the same as the Nahel bond. Anything you stick in your soul gives power, it's not Roshar-specific:

[–]Thadamin 3 points

5 months ago

Is this kind of bond relatively common or is what seons, spren, and night blood do little more rare among splinters. I'm specifically talking about the act of making bonds not a giving of magic powers really, that appearing to be function of Roshar. Also regarding your post about storm light 3 I am personally ok with 2000 pages if need be so make the chapters as long as you want.

[–]mistborn[S] 7 points

5 months ago

 

The bonding is basically the same mechanic, regardless of the world, just with different flavoring. Roshar isn't the only place where the bond gives powers; it's a matter of what's stuffed into the soul, and how.

(source)

 

I don't know how powerful a deathspren is, but my suspicion is that they are relatively weak compared to someone like Syl and thus wouldn't give much in the way of power. Maybe you could take in Stormlight, though...

Edited November 18, 2015 by Moogle

[Mr. Fluffy he/him]

I don't know how powerful a deathspren is, but my suspicion is that they are relatively weak compared to someone like Syl and thus wouldn't give much in the way of power. Maybe you could take in Stormlight, though...

See that's what I was trying to get at, I just couldn't think of the exact function. Thank you for helping me out. I haven't been on the 17th Shard very long, so I really appreciate it.

Edited November 18, 2015 by cdavies12

[DSC01 he/him]

Just a sidenote: the deathspren are almost certainly of Cultivation. Death is a part of of the lifecycle invoked in cultivating plants. While the concept of Cultivation in regards to the the Shard is certainly more abstract, the literal meaning of cultivation should also apply. That explains why Syl doesn't react to deathspren the way that she does odiumspren.