Moogle Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) How do we know there aren't ten Unmade? And why do you think the woman on the edges is Cultivation? And how do we know exactly what the flames represent? And why is a gem Odium? Weiry's linked the WoB on the Unmade, and the rest is informed speculation as I tried to signify with (?)s and "makes me think" sprinkled around. The flames as being the things you see in Shadesmar is pretty solid, though; the "Voidbinding" chart uses the exact shade of purple that the Shadesmar map uses, and has the exact same border (though flipped vertically). Odium's spren tend to be black/red, so the red gem made me think of him. Edit: If you meant how we know how the flames represent people, that was basically established in WoK when Jasnah flung Shallan into a flame to send her back, and Shallan comes to the conclusion in WoR: Nearby, little lights hung in the air, flames without their candles. People, she realized. Those are each a person’s mind, reflected here in the Cognitive Realm. Smaller ones were scattered about her feet, dozens upon dozens, but so small she almost couldn’t make them out. The minds of fish? Also, SA3 spoilers: Jasnah confirms this in her reading: She was able to locate the ship with ease. In Shadesmar, land and sea were reversed, so she stood on solid ground—but in the Physical Realm, Shallan and the sailors would still be in their ship. They manifest here as lights, similar to candle flames, and Jasnah thought of them as the representation of the person’s soul—despite Ivory telling her that was an extreme simplification. Since I think it's very relevant to the discussion, here's the four relevant images: Most relevant thing to note: the "Voidbinding" glyphs are the Surgebinding ones with a certain twisting transformation applied to them (I've done it myself in photoshop), giving further credence to the idea that the "Voidbinding" chart is strongly related to Shadesmar (since it reflects things in strong ways). I also find it plausible the woman on the borders is meant to represent the Nightwatcher. The gold/purple color change could represent the boon/curse. Note, too, that she has a safehand: this was made with Vorin sensibilities in mind. The Surgebinding chart also has the color change on its borders, I just realized. Huh, is it supposed to represent an Honor/Cultivation, divide? If so, the most strongly Honor-ish Orders should be the top half, most Cultivation-ish ones on the bottom, which matches up very well with my previous speculation on the matter. Applying this to the "Voidbinding" chart implies gold/purple is supposed to be another dichotomy of Shards, so... Cultivation/Odium? Another thing that comes to mind is the idea that the charts sharing borders might mean that the magic systems are linked to the land in some way. The Surgebinding chart's circles form an outline kinda similar to Roshar, and the "Voidbinding" chart has clouds on it in a way similar to Shadesmar's. Not sure what to make of this, or if I'm drawing connections where none exist. Edited October 20, 2014 by Moogle 1
Oudeis he/him Posted October 20, 2014 Author Posted October 20, 2014 1. "things reflected" is a bit loose to explain why Voidbinding has to be connected to Shadesmar. "Minds, reflected here in the Cognitive Realm" has nothing really to do with line symmetry being turned into point symmetry. 2. The Nightwatcher is considered a pagan superstition by Vorin kingdoms. Why would they depict her as a proper Vorin lady? That would be like a temple showing Ganesh, Hindu God and Remover of Obstacles wearing a Bishop's Miter weaving a Bridgett's Cross out of reeds. I could see that being done as a form of satire, but not as a classic work of art.
Moogle Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) 1. "things reflected" is a bit loose to explain why Voidbinding has to be connected to Shadesmar. "Minds, reflected here in the Cognitive Realm" has nothing really to do with line symmetry being turned into point symmetry. It is a very bad explanation, I agree. Can't really think of much else. We just know the form of things change in the Physical/Cognitive, we don't really know why. 2. The Nightwatcher is considered a pagan superstition by Vorin kingdoms. Why would they depict her as a proper Vorin lady? That would be like a temple showing Ganesh, Hindu God and Remover of Obstacles wearing a Bishop's Miter weaving a Bridgett's Cross out of reeds. I could see that being done as a form of satire, but not as a classic work of art. I'm not saying this is modern Vorin in the sense that the woman was added post-safehand traditions. The Surgebinding chart itself is from Nohadon's time, if not earlier. This chart probably was as well, and over thousands of years the true meaning of the woman has been lost and she's just kept there because,and nowadays she's shown with a safehand because it would be improper to do otherwise. Maybe modern Vorinism thinks she's a Herald. Maybe she's not the Nightwatcher and is instead Cultivation, and originally "the Almighty" referred to both Honor and Cultivation and Vorinism thought the Almighty had a dual male/female nature. It's very very difficult to know. WoB on the Almighty maybe not just being Honor: atheistcanuck The Almighty's original name was Tanavast, yes/no? Brandon Sanderson Yes and no. The concept of the "Almighty" in Roshar has a lot of meanings, many of them wrong. ATHEISTCANUCK But the person who held the Shard Honor was originally named Tanavast? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes. You wiggled it out of me. That was the name of the original holder of the Shard Honor I know someone's asked Brandon about the woman on the border, but I can't find the WoB. I do know it was a RAFO or something not very useful, though. I also recall something about it being a stained glass picture in a Vorin church (are they called devotaries or am I insane?) somewhere. Edited October 20, 2014 by Moogle
Marmota he/him Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 About the Surge chart, and the map of RosharDid anyone notice that the Heralds heads on the borders are reflected on these tw maps? For example, Jezhriens head on the Surge map is on the right upper corner, and onthe Roshar map he is on the right bottom corner. Probably means nothing, but...
Moogle Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 About the Surge chart, and the map of Roshar Did anyone notice that the Heralds heads on the borders are reflected on these tw maps? For example, Jezhriens head on the Surge map is on the right upper corner, and onthe Roshar map he is on the right bottom corner. Probably means nothing, but... Depends if you can match up the Heralds to countries. Going over it, I got the following: Nalan - Natanatan Jezrien - Thalath Ishi - Valhav Taln - Makoakam Kalak - Aimia Battar - Shin Kak Nish Shallash - Iri Palah - Sela Tales Vedeledev - Rishir Chanaranach - Alethkar Nalan matches up well, but that's because I started with Nalan. I believe Taln was described as dark skinned, and the Azir who live there nowadays have dark skin. I'm sort of drawing blanks, though. It doesn't seem like an obvious match-up.
Recommended Posts