Odium thoughts

[EddyRed]

This is just wild guessing on my part, and I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as many of you on this forum, so I figured I might offer this for your discussion and see your thoughts on the matter

Is it possible that the unmade could be splinters of Odium?

Could they be large chunks of his power given intent and sent out to further his plans?

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[Moogle]

Seems like a reasonable assumption.

 

We've got these to support your argument:

 

Our gods were born splinters of a soul, Of one who seeks to take control, Destroys all lands that he beholds, with spite. They are his spren, his gift, his price. But the nightforms speak of future life, A challenged champion. A strife even he must requite. —From the Listener Song of Secrets, final stanza

 

Though Rlain implies that they were once listeners who were 'unmade' by Odium, and presumably then had Splinters of Odium placed in them:

 

“Who are your gods?”

“They are the souls of those ancient. Those who gave of themselves to destroy.” A different rhythm to his words this time, slow and reverent. He looked up at Dalinar. “They hate you and your kind, sir. This new form they have given my people . . . it is something terrible. It will bring something terrible.”

 

Not much of a difference, really. To get into the Physical, spren need a Physical host. So... I guess you could say the Unmade are like Radiants, but the listeners bonded to them were rendered braindead and the spren took over or something. Possibly.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Moogle

[PorridgeBrick]

The fact that they are referred to both by Mr. T and the Listeners as spren, and that they can be bonded to, indicate that they are more spren than anything else. But Rlain's quote, and how the Stormfather called himself Sliver of Honor, makes it seem almost like both were once physical, living beings. I wonder: could you become a spren? Take up a very large Splinter, like how you take up a Shard, destroying your physical body and over time becoming molded to the Splinter's Intent? After all, Jasnah calls Honor a giant spren, so maybe a mini-shard would count as a spren too.

[Bramble Thorn]

I basically think what Moogle thinks.

 

We know the default state of investiture is sentience. WoB is If it does not have it for long enough, it develops it on its own.

 

The problem is the definitions of sliver and splinter we are using, where we are saying by definition a splinter cannot have a human (or parshendi) cognitive aspect. I doubt that is really the case, just what be are used to.

 

We know part of the the system seems to work is breaks of the soul can be filled with investiture, and those breaks can be widened to allow more investiture in. This is sort of what happens when someone becomes a allomantic savant, or a Knight Radiant becomes more efficient with Stormlight.

 

We also know that enough investiture can "vaporize" or "ascend" a physical body, like Leras and Ati's bodies vanished from the Physical Realm while they were shardholders.

 

I think the Parshendi were angry enough at what had happened to their people re spren and humans they made a deal with Odium. and he tore freaking HUGE rents out of their spiritweb, and poured major investiture inside.

 

Spren are investiture. The unmade are basically the cognitive part of that investiture now, and may not even have a mortal body to kill, either they were given enough investiture to "Poof" it wherever Ati and Leras went, or Odium ripped away their connection to it.

 

Remember, investiture transcends the realms. Shardholders can perceive and effect the physical no problem. The unmade either have enough pure investiture to do so, or the part of them that used to be from there (the parshendi) allows them to think there.