Blinding Odium

[Moogle]

Be warned: Mistborn spoilers are beyond and not marked!

 

From TWoK:

Something drew his attention. Strange flashes of light. He blew toward them at the forefront of the storm. What were those lights? They came in bursts, forming the strangest patterns. Almost like physical things that he could reach out and touch, spherical bubbles of light that vibrated with spikes and troughs.
...
The flashes of light came from directly ahead. So transfixing. Brushing past a pretty gold-and red-haired woman who huddled frightened in a corner, Kaladin burst through a door. He had one brief glimpse of what lay beyond.
A man stood over two corpses. His pale head shaved, his clothing white, the murderer held a long, thin sword in one hand. He looked up from his victims and almost seemed to see Kaladin. He had large Shin eyes.

 

From Mistborn:

 

...she was confused by something she saw. Bright points of light, dotting the landscape, shining like flares. She drew closer, trying to figure out what they were. Yet, just as it was difficult to look directly at a bright lantern and see what was emitting the light, it was difficult to discern the source of this power.
...

She stopped focusing on him, at least with most of her mind. Something else drew her attention. Something moving into Luthadel, flying on spears of light.

Elend.

 

This was probably brought up before, but it seems to me that using Stormlight resulted in 'spherical bubbles of light' that Kaladin was capable of seeing from far above in the sky. I'd theorize that Kaladin was using Shard-o-vision, and that Stormlight on Roshar is like metals on Scadrial - it blinds Shards invested in the planet. When a Surgebinder uses Stormlight, they temporarily release a lot of it before using it up - resulting in the bubbles Kaladin saw. Regular spheres, which give off smaller amounts of light, should create smaller bubbles of light as they give off less Stormlight, though it should last much longer as a vision-blocker.

 

So, why was Kaladin able to see Szeth? Because Szeth ran out of Stormlight, and/or wasn't using it actively like he was a minute before.
 
With this in mind, I'd predict that Odium is incapable of viewing places like the Palaneum, or anywhere lit by Stormlight with sufficient amounts of gems. It makes me wonder if Taravangian knows, or if it's just a happy coincidence for him.
 
Any thoughts? Dumb things I missed? Has this already been discussed in detail?

Edited January 11, 2014 by Moogle

[Satsuoni]

Well, my opinions on Stormlight are expressed in another thread, but as to what you have missed...

This is rather important, I think:

 

She stopped focusing on him, at least with most of her mind. Something else drew her attention. Something moving into Luthadel, flying on spears of light.

Note the difference between looking at Surgebinding (you can see patterns) and at metal (you cannot, it is too bright). As the quote above shows, the Steelpushes manifest as lines ("spears") of light, as well, and not as two disparate pieces. I think that the bubbles were just manifestations of Surgebinding, rather than Stormlight per se.

[Aether]

I can't exactly remember the context, but wasn't that TenSoon? The spears of light being his Spikes?

[Moogle]

I can't exactly remember the context, but wasn't that TenSoon? The spears of light being his Spikes?

 

I don't have the book on me right now, but I believe it was Elend flying around to get to the kandra and Steelpushing coins. The 'spears' of light would be the coins he was dropping. I assume they sort of leave an after-image of light as they fall, which is why they'd be a spear and not a falling ball of light.

 

Oh, also, we know that the Purelakers have 'grottos' where the evil god of their religion cannot hear them. I'm guessing that it's because it's infused with Stormlight, but even if it isn't, there's something on Roshar that Odium cannot see.

 

 

Vun Makak—his younger, spiteful brother—had to be tricked into thinking you worshipped him, otherwise he’d get jealous. It was only safe to speak of these things in a holy grotto.

 

Seems to me that the Purelakers worship Honor in secret while venerating Odium (the 'spiteful' brother).

Edited January 13, 2014 by Moogle

[Aether]

I do not dispute the fact that the Shards are blind to the foci of their investiture. I just wasn't sure if - in this particular case - TenSoon or Elend would be the cause of the spears of light.

 

And yes, I've noticed that passage myself. It might just be a cave in a place where there are gems in the rock. Not sure if Stormlight is needed, I think even empty focus gems might do the trick.

[Bloodfalcon]

All you have to do to blind Odium is believe in the power of love. At least I've been assuming that...

[The Rooster]

I thought that metals blinded Ruin and Preservation because they were so heavily invested in Scadrial.  In the process of creating Humanity and investing themselves into the metal they gave up a LOT of power.  That power inherent int he metal and waiting to be unlocked was what blinded them right?  WoB has been explicit that Odium avoids heavy investment at all costs.  Sure he's invested in Roshar and wants to destroy it in order to get that back but there no way that he has put enough power in to blind himself.  Now it could be that any heavily invested shardic power is blinding in which case there are things on Roshar that would be candidates, I just doubt it's stormlight.  The gods would be blind one night a fortnight due to the highstorms.  Maybe Spren for shardblades?  No it can't be spren because Wyndle and The Ring seems familiar with their "mother" and I really doubt she'd can't see her children.  I'm rambling, point is I doubt Odium has blindness to Stormlight.  Maybe something , but not that.

 

 

Also

All you have to do to blind Odium is believe in the power of love. At least I've been assuming that...

I thought it took money?  So you're saying "It don't take money"

Edited January 13, 2014 by AG Rooster

[Moogle]

And yes, I've noticed that passage myself. It might just be a cave in a place where there are gems in the rock. Not sure if Stormlight is needed, I think even empty focus gems might do the trick.

 

A good thought. Though, if empty focus gems do the trick, then why would Kaladin see flashes of light when Szeth is Surgebinding? It seems like it's more the Stormlight than the gems. Do the gems count as foci, like the metals of Scadrial, or is it the Stormlight? The gemhearts being like atium suggests that they are, but I'm still not convinced. Unless both Stormlight and gems work to blind Shards. That might explain the Elend quote, actually. He's Pushing on it, which involves a transfer of Investiture from him to the metal, which makes a single solid bright line to a Shard's eyes.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Moogle

[Aether]

I thought that metals blinded Ruin and Preservation because they were so heavily invested in Scadrial.  In the process of creating Humanity and investing themselves into the metal they gave up a LOT of power.  That power inherent int he metal and waiting to be unlocked was what blinded them right?  WoB has been explicit that Odium avoids heavy investment at all costs.  Sure he's invested in Roshar and wants to destroy it in order to get that back but there no way that he has put enough power in to blind himself.  Now it could be that any heavily invested shardic power is blinding in which case there are things on Roshar that would be candidates, I just doubt it's stormlight.  The gods would be blind one night a fortnight due to the highstorms.  Maybe Spren for shardblades?  No it can't be spren because Wyndle and The Ring seems familiar with their "mother" and I really doubt she'd can't see her children.  I'm rambling, point is I doubt Odium has blindness to Stormlight.  Maybe something , but not that.

The metals themselves aren't technically invested - they are more like gateways to Preservation's Investiture, held open as they are burned. There is also reason to assume that the Shards aren't blind to Investiture in itself, but to the foci used to initiate the use of it. Thus, Ruin and Preservation are Blind to metals, but not really the use of them. A person flaring pewter wouldn't suddenly light up brightly, though the metals on him or in his stomach might give give away some light.

 

If the same logic is to be extended to Sel, then a Shard (or just Devotion / Dominum, I don't know if Odium would have had the same blindness when he was on Sel) would be blind to the Aon equations of AonDor, and possibly to the soulstamps (the carved part) of Soulforging. On Nalthis, I honestly do not know, but someone has suggested that Endowment might be colour-blind, or that (s)he might be blind or deaf to Commands. On Roshar, I suggest that the Shards are blind to Foci Gems, and not the Stormlight itself (Stormlight is inherently bright though, so while not blinding, it can still be seen as bright flashes of light if concentrated enough.

 

Also, one last note. The Shards wouldn't technically be blind to their foci, but blinded by them because they only see them as intolerably bright lights.

.

EDIT: Relevant quote(s):

Josh

If Odium went to Scadrial, would he be blind to metal there?

Brandon Sanderson

Um. [nervous laugh] Um...

Josh

Because I think you mentioned more than once that focuses are actually determined by planet.

Brandon Sanderson

I'm going to RAFO that. But that's one of those excellent questions. I'm amused that people have figured out enough to be asking questions like that.

<source>

Edited January 14, 2014 by Aether