Red Stars

[Moogle]

 

Taln’s Scar—a swath of deep red stars that stood out vibrantly from the twinkling white ones—was high in the sky this season.

 

Perhaps I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel in my reread of The Way of Kings, but I vaguely recall there being red stars in one of Brandon's other works. Does anyone else recall this, or am I crazy?

 

Also, I am quite suspicious of these red stars. Anyone have any theories on them? At a guess, they might be the result of the Splinterings of Devotion and Dominion.

 

Or they just might be differently colored stars. But I suspect there's something at work here, given all the other stars seem to be white and it's just this group that's red.

[Swimmingly]

Given that all Cosmere works (so far) are set in a single dwarf galaxy, it would make sense that they see the same stars. And I have no idea how Shards affect suns. The White Sand world had some odd heliodynamics, but hard to say.

[Ete'ni]

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Edited June 10, 2014 by Ete'ni

[DocHoliday]

red sun was on Scadria. though not before lord ruler

That was due to the ash mounts. Check out the sun the next time there's a large fire in your vicinity.

Scadrial' s was likely a regular yellow star

[Ete'ni]

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Edited June 10, 2014 by Ete'ni

[Cracknut]

If I'm not mistaken red colored stars are 'coldest' burning suns which could mean that those worlds would last longer than yellow ones... but idk why this could be important. Except maybe those are Yolen's or some very old things solar systems...

Sun in Mistborn isn't red, its just how human eyes see it through messed up atmosphere.

Edited December 23, 2013 by 213

[Natans]

Theory about Tal Red Star ? I have one =)

 

Maybe the 'red star" are the planet where Odium are located (I forgot the name). In the ancient times Mars are a red star too, apply some analogy and Tal Skar( and the place that him are imprisioned) could be the Odium planet a barren, red colored desert like Mars that looked like a red star in Roshar =)

[Pechvarry]

Just as I wrote. Not before lord ruler. And in AoL you hardly find any description, because they are all up to Wayne since Wax can't but stare at trees.

 

Seriously, reading isn't abour recognizing letters alone

 

No.  You claimed the sun itself was red before The Lord Ruler.  DocHoliday is pointing out that it is actually a yellow sun that appears red because you're looking through burning ash.  That wouldn't affect the star's color from Roshar's stars.

 

Seriously, try being tactful and polite.

[Ete'ni]

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Edited June 10, 2014 by Ete'ni

[Cracknut]

Nope, read again. In Lord Ruler's era sun is hot and it's light is red. at least raged Kelsier's face color was like sunlight or red. In AoL... It's whatever, Wax looks at trees, Wayne... usually he looks at Wax and other people.

 

You can see red sun in winter at dawn. So?

Yellow stars are hotter than red ones. Yellow is hotter than red and white is hotter than yellow. Our sun is actually Green/Blue star, not yellow/white, its just how we see it.

TLR didn't make sun hotter, he just moved planet closer to it. Color of sun itself didn't change. Ashmounts thickened/darkened Scadrials sky, that's why sun looked red AND planet didn't burn because heat couldn't get through as well. Normal people couldn't see stars for same reason.

... yes you CAN see red sun in winter at dawn, does that mean that sun changes color? :|

Edited December 23, 2013 by 213

[name_here]

Theory about Tal Red Star ? I have one =)

 

Maybe the 'red star" are the planet where Odium are located (I forgot the name). In the ancient times Mars are a red star too, apply some analogy and Tal Skar( and the place that him are imprisioned) could be the Odium planet a barren, red colored desert like Mars that looked like a red star in Roshar =)

 

Red Stars, plural. So probably not planets, because they wouldn't tend to remain together from the perspective of Roshar unless there are some seriously funky orbital mechanics at play. Either they're really far away or they're orbiting Roshar. Or they're maneuvering under power, but since it's an identified constellation and people aren't freaking out about it they must have been around a while.

 

Since red stars are relatively dim, they must be rather close to Roshar and thus are probably actually fairly cohesive where most constellations are often not close together even in astronomical terms because human eyes are not capable of percieving depth at interstellar distances. Hm, maybe when Roshar's inhabitants were in the Tranquline Halls they were a spacefaring or worldhopping civilization and Odium caused their stars to deteriorate to the Red Giant phase and drag in or melt planets in the former liquid-water zone, forcing them to evacuate to Roshar on the edge of their empire. Roshar is at least mildly familar with Shadesmar, which could be a remnant of large-scale worldhopping. Or the stars could be leftover from the Shattering, which would square with Roshar being somewhere Adonalsium visited before or during the Shattering.

 

Now, both of those assume that distances in Shadesmar are roughly proportional to distances in the Physical realm, but I'm willing to believe that if a point in the Physical is between two other points, then the same relative arrangement holds in Shadesmar, so the closest habitable planet would probably remain the closest in Shadesmar if  the ratio of space occupied by vacuum in the Physical to space in the Cognative remains consistant for all vacuum.

 

As for why the other stars are white, there do not appear to be many red stars because they're pretty dim and cannot be seen unaided.

[Natans]

Red Stars, plural. So probably not planets, because they wouldn't tend to remain together from the perspective of Roshar unless there are some seriously funky orbital mechanics at play. Either they're really far away or they're orbiting Roshar. Or they're maneuvering under power, but since it's an identified constellation and people aren't freaking out about it they must have been around a while.

 

Since red stars are relatively dim, they must be rather close to Roshar and thus are probably actually fairly cohesive where most constellations are often not close together even in astronomical terms because human eyes are not capable of percieving depth at interstellar distances. Hm, maybe when Roshar's inhabitants were in the Tranquline Halls they were a spacefaring or worldhopping civilization and Odium caused their stars to deteriorate to the Red Giant phase and drag in or melt planets in the former liquid-water zone, forcing them to evacuate to Roshar on the edge of their empire. Roshar is at least mildly familar with Shadesmar, which could be a remnant of large-scale worldhopping. Or the stars could be leftover from the Shattering, which would square with Roshar being somewhere Adonalsium visited before or during the Shattering.

 

Now, both of those assume that distances in Shadesmar are roughly proportional to distances in the Physical realm, but I'm willing to believe that if a point in the Physical is between two other points, then the same relative arrangement holds in Shadesmar, so the closest habitable planet would probably remain the closest in Shadesmar if  the ratio of space occupied by vacuum in the Physical to space in the Cognative remains consistant for all vacuum.

 

As for why the other stars are white, there do not appear to be many red stars because they're pretty dim and cannot be seen unaided.

 

 Ok stars

 

Planet and moons ?  Well not likely =)

 

There goes my little theory, byeeee =)

[Gamma Fiend]

I have always wondered if there was anything more to Starspren. Aren't they described like once in the book and mentioned how they seem to wiggle around up in the sky or something? I can't remember exactly but I always thought that would be cool if there were 'moving' stars, so to speak.

Edit: And the Scadrian Sun is totally yellow, in real life. The inhabitants only saw it red because of the atmosphere distorting the color as it reached the planet. It was just all the ash and crap in the air.

Same as on earth, less with the pollution, but sun-rises and sun sets are basically the same, it's color just gets distorted when it reaches our ozone.

What makes more sense of a use of your surpreme, Shardic power? Changing the planets atmosphere and cleaning it out, or physically changing the properties of a nearby star, which could have extremely devastating, unpredictable results on all life in that solar system?

Sun has always been yellow, people just saw it as red until recently.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Gamma Fiend

[Vortaan]

Red Stars, plural. So probably not planets, because they wouldn't tend to remain together from the perspective of Roshar unless there are some seriously funky orbital mechanics at play. Either they're really far away or they're orbiting Roshar. Or they're maneuvering under power, but since it's an identified constellation and people aren't freaking out about it they must have been around a while.

 

Since red stars are relatively dim, they must be rather close to Roshar and thus are probably actually fairly cohesive where most constellations are often not close together even in astronomical terms because human eyes are not capable of percieving depth at interstellar distances. Hm, maybe when Roshar's inhabitants were in the Tranquline Halls they were a spacefaring or worldhopping civilization and Odium caused their stars to deteriorate to the Red Giant phase and drag in or melt planets in the former liquid-water zone, forcing them to evacuate to Roshar on the edge of their empire. Roshar is at least mildly familar with Shadesmar, which could be a remnant of large-scale worldhopping. Or the stars could be leftover from the Shattering, which would square with Roshar being somewhere Adonalsium visited before or during the Shattering.

 

Now, both of those assume that distances in Shadesmar are roughly proportional to distances in the Physical realm, but I'm willing to believe that if a point in the Physical is between two other points, then the same relative arrangement holds in Shadesmar, so the closest habitable planet would probably remain the closest in Shadesmar if  the ratio of space occupied by vacuum in the Physical to space in the Cognative remains consistant for all vacuum.

 

As for why the other stars are white, there do not appear to be many red stars because they're pretty dim and cannot be seen unaided.

 

Hm. I kind of like the idea of a Rosharan (Roshari?) empire that got destroyed via red giants. It's curious though that they'd lose so much technology almost immediately after, unless you're proposing a less-rapid destruction of society, followed by a rebuilding period ala Heralds and the Silver Kingdoms.

[DocHoliday]

Ete'ni, on 22 Dec 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

red sun was on Scadria.

Ete'ni, on 22 Dec 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

Seriously, reading isn't abour recognizing letters alone

I didn't realize that was open to interpretation. You have my SINCERE apologies.

Ete'ni, on 23 Dec 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

Nope, read again. In Lord Ruler's era sun is hot and it's light is red. at least raged Kelsier's face color was like sunlight or red. In AoL... It's whatever, Wax looks at trees, Wayne... usually he looks at Wax and other people.

You can see red sun in winter at dawn. So?

Sun rise/set is red because of the light bouncing around a longer time in our spherical atmosphere before it reaches our eyes. This causes the wavelengths of light we see to decrease in frequency resulting in a orange to reddish light to our perceptions.

Pechvarry, on 23 Dec 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

No. You claimed the sun itself was red before The Lord Ruler. DocHoliday is pointing out that it is actually a yellow sun that appears red because you're looking through burning ash. That wouldn't affect the star's color from Roshar's stars.

Seriously, try being tactful and polite.

Thank you sir.

[Ete'ni]

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Edited June 10, 2014 by Ete'ni

[Vortaan]

While you were busy downvoting my posts, I ask a friend of mine about our yellow sun and about a red star. Well, the answer was fascinating: when our yellow sun become red, humanity will probably live on a satellite of Saturn, Titan. And science has no idea, how our red sun will look to our eyes. That will mostly depend on atmospere.

 

Well, I'm disapointed with you, but that doesn't matter.

 

Actually, considering the average life span of a species on our planet is 10 million years, humanity is more likely to be extinct when the sun becomes a red giant. Presuming we don't go extinct though, it'd be terribly disappointing if we never made it out of the solar system in a couple billion years.

[Pechvarry]

Well, I'm disapointed with you, but that doesn't matter.

 

 I understand the Internet is a harsh place, but you'll find we really prize kindness and acceptance around here.  We won't hold a grudge once you're out of this thread and into a new one.   Just try not to go around accusing people of having no reading comprehension.

 

As for Taln's Scar... I apparently can't copy straight out of amazon's desktop reader, so I'll say: page 504/505, Shallan mentions people claiming to be able to read her personality based on the position of Taln's Scar on her seventh birthday. 

 

I was going to use this talk of Taln's Scar's location to claim they're not stars at all, that it's much more local.  But seasons bring changes of constellations all the time, and there's nothing saying it's in a different place relative to the rest of the stars in Roshar's skies.  

 

 

 

Night in T’Telir was very different from her homeland. There, it had been

possible to see so many stars overhead that it looked like a bucket of white

sand had been dashed into the air.

 

I can still copy out of a pdf!  This is the only mention of stars (or even star, singular, searched for by placing a whitespace before and after star) in all of Warbreaker.  Other than the title of an unpublished Cosmere novel, I see nothing interesting in the quote.  These are the only Cosmere ebooks I have.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Pechvarry

[name_here]

Elantris also has no reference to red stars of any form. However, one of the unpublished books is set in Roshar's solar system, so it presumably also has Taln's Scar present in some form.

[DocHoliday]

While you were busy downvoting my posts, I ask a friend of mine about our yellow sun and about a red star. Well, the answer was fascinating: when our yellow sun become red, humanity will probably live on a satellite of Saturn, Titan. And science has no idea, how our red sun will look to our eyes. That will mostly depend on atmospere.

 

Well, I'm disapointed with you, but that doesn't matter.

Our Sun ( Sol if your interested in knowing) will eventually turn into what is known as a Red Giant. It's a process every star undergoes in its life time. It will expand to such a degree that it's circumference will likely include Mar' s current orbit. It will also "burn" much colder than it does now. Luckily that won't be for a few million years.

The light it emits will indeed be red. As I pointed out with the ashmounts, and your friend reiterated,atmospheric composition affects the way our eyes perceive the light.

As a final note: I don't care a whit that you're disappointed. You posted something that was rude and very ignorant,. I'm certain that you didn't question your friend's intelligence when he was talking about red light, so why is acceptable to do so on the internet? A little courtesy would serve you very well.

[name_here]

Note that since Scadrial's atmospheric composition makes the light from its sun appear red instead of resulting from the actual color of the sun, it would not look red from Roshar, which has a different atmospheric composition.

Edited December 24, 2013 by name_here

[name_here]

Hm. I kind of like the idea of a Rosharan (Roshari?) empire that got destroyed via red giants. It's curious though that they'd lose so much technology almost immediately after, unless you're proposing a less-rapid destruction of society, followed by a rebuilding period ala Heralds and the Silver Kingdoms.

 

Well, if they used Worldhopping instead of spaceships, they'd be able to evacuate without necessarily taking much of anything, particularly if their first sign of trouble was when the stars expanded and they had only minutes to evacuate before the seas began to boil. Even if they did have spaceships, a hasty evacuation might not have lent itself to preserving technology. There's a lot of steps in converting raw materials into finished goods, and if they grabbed stuff and ran instead of preparing a proper self-sufficient colonization vessel (which, assuming they had FTL, they might have literally never done before) most of the mining equipment and manufacturing gear probably didn't make the jump and duplicating it onsite would require other complex machinery that they didn't bring, and even if they had the time, forethought, and lift capacity to actually bring an entire industrial base along with the evacuees, the equipment could have been junked by solar flares or other problems in transit. Either way, anything they brought would have eventually broken down or run out of power, and there would be no replacements.

[Vortaan]

Well, if they used Worldhopping instead of spaceships, they'd be able to evacuate without necessarily taking much of anything, particularly if their first sign of trouble was when the stars expanded and they had only minutes to evacuate before the seas began to boil. Even if they did have spaceships, a hasty evacuation might not have lent itself to preserving technology. There's a lot of steps in converting raw materials into finished goods, and if they grabbed stuff and ran instead of preparing a proper self-sufficient colonization vessel (which, assuming they had FTL, they might have literally never done before) most of the mining equipment and manufacturing gear probably didn't make the jump and duplicating it onsite would require other complex machinery that they didn't bring, and even if they had the time, forethought, and lift capacity to actually bring an entire industrial base along with the evacuees, the equipment could have been junked by solar flares or other problems in transit. Either way, anything they brought would have eventually broken down or run out of power, and there would be no replacements.

 

Wait, so we're assuming that before their move they weren't using Surgebinding or fabrials? If so, I can agree with that. You move to another world and suddenly the magic you were using doesn't work anymore, and you don't know the rules of the new one. Otherwise, Soulcasting should be able to solve a -lot- of the problems you name. Although how specific you can get with the metallurgical qualities of what you Soulcast could be a limitation.