Darkarma Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Interesting thought I had, Lerasium is part of Preservation and it writes things specifically to a person's spirit web. Forgery works in a similar method only on the conceptual side right? I was thinking what if a person (Hoid) turned it into an essence mark. Could he use it to forge lasting changes to person's spirit web without actually using up the bead? I know the bead is probably small but if you say hammered it flat onto something to give it some extra shape you could then etch whatever forgery you want into it. it might explain why Hoid was playing around in Emperor's Soul. Edited December 12, 2013 by Darkarma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I got the impression from the Emperor's Soul that the material itself didn't matter. Soulstone is only the preferred material because of how easy it is to carve it and that it doesn't chip after being heated up. I don't think an Lerasium Essence Mark would work any different from a normal one. On the other hand, you might be able to use it to make your Spirit Web more flexible or something, making it easier to forge Soulstamps for yourself. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 It'd be more in keeping with Preservation to have it make changes more difficult. There's precedent in the form of the UnForgeable Metal, Ralkast, which is presumably the other Shard's solid physical form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 It'd be more in keeping with Preservation to have it make changes more difficult. There's precedent in the form of the UnForgeable Metal, Ralkast, which is presumably the other Shard's solid physical form. Fascinating. I've never heard this theory. Is there any textual support for this, or is it speculation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 It'd be more in keeping with Preservation to have it make changes more difficult. There's precedent in the form of the UnForgeable Metal, Ralkast, which is presumably the other Shard's solid physical form. I am not sure it needs to be a Shard's body at all. Aluminum is allomantically inert. You can't push and pull on it, and it can shield you from emotional Allomancy. Yet, it is still a normal metal, completely separate from any Shard. (And yes, I know that it can be burned, but that is somewhat besides the point.) My point is, I do not think Ralkast needs to be directly connected to a Shard at all. Also, the Dor seems to have been created by a cooperative effort by both Shards (as it existed before the shattering of Devotion and Dominuim), so it definitely isn't UnForgeable because it is the body of the other Shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cem Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Also, the Dor seems to have been created by a cooperative effort by both Shards (as it existed before the shattering of Devotion and Dominuim), so it definitely isn't UnForgeable because it is the body of the other Shard. Do you have a source for the bolded? Because I can't remember any such thing and to be honest it doesn't really make sense. As for ralkalest, as you guys said, it may be something mystical or it may just be a rock. Shai doesn't mention why it acts the way it does, probably because she doesn't know it either. And Brandon RAFOed it when asked: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=986#14 Lance Alvein Do Ralkalest and Soulstone have any connection to the two shards? BRANDON SANDERSON (paraphrased) RAFO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 On the other hand, unlike everything else we see in the book, it's not a substance that actually exists on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Also, the Dor seems to have been created by a cooperative effort by both Shards (as it existed before the shattering of Devotion and Dominuim), so it definitely isn't UnForgeable because it is the body of the other Shard. Not sure I agree with this. The Dor could just be how manifesting on Sel affects Shards, like the Metallic Arts is how a Shard on Scadrial will manifest itself. (Or some kind of metal-based magic system) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 Do you have a source for the bolded? Because I can't remember any such thing and to be honest it doesn't really make sense. As for ralkalest, as you guys said, it may be something mystical or it may just be a rock. Shai doesn't mention why it acts the way it does, probably because she doesn't know it either. And Brandon RAFOed it when asked: I seem to have been a bit trigger-happy on that one, as I cannot find the supposed WoB that I'm referring to. I now believe myself wrong on this point. My apologies. My other point remains standing though. I do not think Ralkast have to be the body of a Shard to be unforgeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cem Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 (edited) It doesn't have to be. Anything with Investiture is, practically, immune to additional Investiture. Beyond that, there is aluminum which is immune to Allomancy without containing Investiture. On the other hand, I am reasonably sure someone used Allomancy on atium during the Mistborn trilogy, though I can't cite it right now, so at least one body of a Shard can very much be manipulated. Edit: I just had a thought. Is it possible that ralkalest is actually aluminum? Edited December 13, 2013 by cem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 (edited) On the other hand, I am reasonably sure someone used Allomancy on atium during the Mistborn trilogy, though I can't cite it right now, so at least one body of a Shard can very much be manipulated. Vin was forced to burn Aluminum when captured by the Inquisitors in the Final Empire, if that's what you mean. It's one of the 16 Allomantic metals, and can be burned, but it cannot be pushed or pulled and can be used to make "tin-foil" hats. . I do not think Vin or anyone could have had met any Aluminum to push at in the first place, given that it is extremely rare / expensive to produce. . Edit: I just had a thought. Is it possible that ralkalest is actually aluminum? Maybe, but Brandon called Aluminum by it's real-world equivalent in Mistborn-trilogy. I do not see why he would rename it just for Sel. . EDIT: I remember that the melting point of Ralkalest was referred to specifically. I cannot remember if it was said to be high or low (but that it likely would have killed Shai in her cell), but if we can find the quote we might be able to determine whether or not Ralkalest is actually Aluminum. The latter melts at 660.32 °C (1220.58 °F). By comparison, Iron melts at 1538 °C (2800 °F) and Tin at 231.93 °C (449.47 °F). If the text indicates that it is either especially low or high - such as the Iron or Tin - then it is likely not Aluminum. Edited December 13, 2013 by Aether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 Vin was forced to burn Aluminum when captured by the Inquisitors in the Final Empire, if that's what you mean. It's one of the 16 Allomantic metals, and can be burned, but it cannot be pushed or pulled and can be used to make "tin-foil" hats. . I think you'll find that he asked if anyone had used allomancy on atium, not aluminum. The answer is yes. When Vin fought Shan she pushed and pulled her bead to eat it. In the second book, she used TenSoon's shoulder-pocket (ew) expressly to block allomancy from affecting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 I think you'll find that he asked if anyone had used allomancy on atium, not aluminum. The answer is yes. When Vin fought Shan she pushed and pulled her bead to eat it. In the second book, she used TenSoon's shoulder-pocket (ew) expressly to block allomancy from affecting it. My bad. Thank you for providing an answer to the correct question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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