Emotion and Investiture

[Windrunner]

I think one of the most mysterious parts of the cosmere is emotions, and how they relate to Realmetic Theory, and investiture in general. In almost every book there is something interesting going on here. I thought it seemed like a good idea to discuss it. I'll start by making a list of occurrences when magic and emotion interact.

Elantris

• Aona's Shardpool offers feelings of Relief
  

Mistborn

• Emotional Allomancy - A Soother's Cognitive aspect can somehow alter others' Cognitive aspects
  
• Hemalurgy Cognitive Aspect Weakness - Emotional Allomancy can take control of a person.
  
• Elend feels faith in Vin, the moment before she starts powering his investiture.
  

Warbreaker

• Mainly the Returned. Emotion can easily alter their appearance with some self control. Often when a Returned is feeling strong emotion their Biochromatic aura will become more vivid. Also when Denth is dying he looses control of his appearance, his hair starts shifting colors like Siri's
  

The Stormlight Archive

• Spren are attracted by peoples' cognitive and emotional reactions, thus fearspren, anticipationspren, and logicspren
  

Any others?

It seems obvious to me that the Cognitive and Spiritual aspects are really intertwined here. Emotions seem to interfere with investiture. Which leads to one random theory. Life and Sentience are an occurence of Shardic investiture. We all know that Ruin and Preservation invested part of themselves in humanity. When you feel something strong, the magic of Life interferes with the magic of that the person is using like with the Returned, perhaps even making it stronger. They magic can also interfere with the investiture of life, like in Hemalurgic weakness. This would mean that the Cognitive Realm is actually almost an in-between Realm, connecting the Spiritual to the Physical, which jives with Brandon has said of it. Any comments or other perspectives?

Edited February 11, 2012 by Windrunner

[Chaos]

This would mean that the Cognitive Realm is actually almost an in-between Realm, connecting the Spiritual to the Physical, which jives with Brandon has said of it.

I cannot possibly agree with this statement more. You matched my thoughts exactly.

[KChan]

I really like what you're saying so far! One question though:

When you feel something strong, the magic of Life interferes with the magic of that the person is using like with the Returned, perhaps even making it stronger. They magic can also interfere with the investiture of life, like in Hemalurgic weakness.

Can you please clarify what you mean here? I'm having difficulty figuring out what you were trying to say with this.

[Windrunner]

I cannot possibly agree with this statement more. You matched my thoughts exactly.

Thanks! I think Brandon really gives a big hint with this quote.

Each of the 'Shardworlds' I've written in (Mistborn, Elantris, Warbreaker, Way of Kings) exists with the same cosmology. All things exist on three realms--the spiritual, the cognitive, and the physical. What's going on here is an interaction between the three realms. I don't to bore you with my made up philosophy, but I do have a cohesive metaphysical reasoning for how my worlds and magic works. And there is a single plane of existence--called Shadesmar, the Cognative Realm--which connects them all.

It really makes it seem like Shadesmar connects them both. It actually kind of reminds me of something I read. There is a theory or something that instead of the four fundamental forces we have now, gravity, electomagnetism, and the strong and weak nuclear forces, there was originally one force which split into two, then three, then four, in the very beginning of our universe. Possibly something similar happened in the cosmere, since Brandon likes to use science as a basis for his fiction. Perhaps, in the beggining, there was just Andonalsium, composed of pure investiture the Spiritual Realm, who created the Physical Realm, and then the interaction between the two gave rise to the Cognitive Realm?

I really like what you're saying so far! One question though:

Can you please clarify what you mean here? I'm having difficulty figuring out what you were trying to say with this.

Thanks for the compliment! Sorry for the general vagueness. I come up with my (seemingly) best theories when I'm exhausted, and they slip out of my mind quickly so sometimes I do a poor job explaining myself on my big theory ideas on the first go around. Let me try to see if I can explain better, with a couple examples too.

I think that every example of life, especially sentient life is powered by spiritual energy, which I think is the same as Investiture. So by the very fact that these things live they are utilizing some of the power of the Shard that created them to keep themselves alive. Somehow this magic of life can interact, and interfere with other more noticeable forms of Investiture, like Allomancy and Awakening. It's kind of like (I think this is an apt simile, but I'm no physicist so I could be wrong) those solar storms that have happened frequently, that interfere with communications satellites or background radiation from space that (I think) creates static. In magic the Investiture keeping people alive and giving them emotions, and the power of cognition is interfering with their other Investiture they're using. The Hemalurgic weakness could be caused by Investiture in the spike interfering with peoples' Cognitive aspect making the hole. But when the subject actually feels something strong, the hole becomes smaller because their magic of Investiture is firing on all cylinders and beginning to counteract it. The evidence I have that it can actually increase power is much more speculative. When Lightsong feels strong emotion his Biochromatic Aura flares, becoming more bright, and since the vividness of a Biochromatic Aura is indicative of its power, it seems that his Divine Breath has temporarily getting supplemental power from the Investiture of Lightsong. Did that make any more sense? I realize it is really vague and speculative but I hope it doesn't sound like I'm raving here.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Windrunner

[Aiken Frost]

I can't put my finger on what exactly, but I'm liking this theory a lot. I few that some of the examples in the first post are a bit contrived, but I think this is really in the right direction.

[KChan]

Hm, interesting. I'm still thinking over how I feel about the theory as a whole, but you've definitely pointed out some neat correlations here. Neat work!

[Windrunner]

Thanks for all the compliments everyone!

I can't put my finger on what exactly, but I'm liking this theory a lot. I few that some of the examples in the first post are a bit contrived, but I think this is really in the right direction.

The very first post or my updated one? I'd like to hear what you find to be unlikely, to better my theory. I'm still trying to come up with a better reason for why emotion counteracts the Hemalurgic cognitive weakness. My latest idea is that since it's a piece of Preservation that is essentially fueling that last step into sentience, when it's particularly active because the person is really feeling something, it begins to push against the power of Ruin that is twisting the Preservation inside the spike. Does that sound any better?

Hm, interesting. I'm still thinking over how I feel about the theory as a whole, but you've definitely pointed out some neat correlations here. Neat work!

I hope you post back here when you decide what you think, it's a little out there I'm sure. Also anyone please feel free to post your own theories about why Emotion and Investiture relate. This isn't just the Windrunner's crazy ideas thread, haha

[Cuaiir]

I keep thinking that emotion is more of a Spiritual nature than a Cognitive one. I can't articulate why, but assuming that's true:

Strong emotional pushes and pulls allow control over Hemalurgic creations, therefore the Flaw is Spiritual in nature, not Cognitive.

It also wouldn't make sense for it to be Cognitive because when taking over the koloss, Vin didn't feel their thoughts, but rather their general emotional state. Maybe I'm stretching here.

I'm fairly sure it's confirmed that Breath is the Spiritual component of Awakening. This would make Lightsong's Breath flaring when he feels strong emotion make a bit more sense - he actually has more Spiritual energy when he feels strong emotion.

It could also explain why Drabs are less intense, emotionally - they actually lack a component of their Spiritual self.

I need to reread Warbreaker, but it seems like the flip side of this would be that people with lots of Breath experience stronger emotions. I'm not sure this is true, though.

Breath is the best example we have of a change in the Spiritual component of an individual - perhaps we should look at it more closely.

Attempt at articulation: emotions are neither physical or cognitive - no senses are used to detect their input (physical), and they aren't a conscious reaction to stimulus (cognitive). This leaves only one Realm - Spiritual.

Sorry for the stream-of-consciousness post, had to get this out while it was still in my head.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Cuaiir

[dj26792]

yeah I like that, emotion definitely seems more spiritual than cognitive in cosmere terms, I don't think that more breath would neccesarily add to the emotion you feel even if losing breath makes you less emotional, it could just magnify the effect of strong emotions, on your spiritual aura.

[Windrunner]

No I definitely get where you guys are coming from, I've actually spent a fair amount of time pondering, whether emotion is spiritual or cognitive. I don't think there's an easy answer. I do agree that at first glance emotions seem spiritual, however we lack information on what the spiritual aspect of a person really is. So far spiritual power has been simply described as energy fueling magic and Cognition, with no mention of emotion involved. I would also argue that emotion is an important part of cognition, how people feel alters how they perceive the world and what choices they make. Does being a Drab really make them less emotionally intense? I don't remember reading that anywhere, but I could easily have forgotten, I haven't read Warbreaker in a while. Vin doesn't feel the kolosses thoughts, I''ll agree with that, but there are a couple of things to remember about the koloss. They really don't have much going on with cognitive power, their thoughts are rather simple and confused. Also for the most of the book Vin has control of a large amount of koloss, which would probably muddle individual thoughts greatly. Also Vin doesn't even try to read their minds, so it might be possible.

However, I'll suspend the argument about which Realm emotion is a part of, and act like it is spiritual. If it is spiritual and not cognitive then it's probably just spiritual energy from emotion that's powering the investiture. When Lightsong feels emotion that piece of Endowment is being stoked withing him, to enhance his aura. I read some quotes and I agree that the Hemalurgic flaw is spiritual in nature, because Brandon actually uses the word spirit to describe it. However, they are most certainly controlling, the Cognitive aspects of those with the weakness, because they aren't just altering emotion, they are actually controlling the thoughts and actions of spiked people and changing their beliefs. I think it's also interesting to think about Soothers and Rioters, they must be using spiritual energy to alter other's spiritual energy.

[Kelek]

A little bit of added fuel for the discussion. This is based completely on the theology of Warbreaker. Vivenna is, at first, very reluctant to even think of taking/giving breaths away. Her people's teachings are that your breath is a part of your soul. It fits very well with your theory, Windrunner, that the spiritual realm contains the feelings. And a bit more opinion based here, but emotions tie in to a spiritual aspect very well. You could say that Experiences(Physical) and how they affected you (feelings/spiritual) create the way you see the world(cognitive). Somewhat vague there, but that is how I see things in the three realms.

[Windrunner]

So I have a couple of pieces of evidence for my theory on the way the Three Realms formed, quoted from above, for those who are just reading this.

It really makes it seem like Shadesmar connects them both. It actually kind of reminds me of something I read. There is a theory or something that instead of the four fundamental forces we have now, gravity, electomagnetism, and the strong and weak nuclear forces, there was originally one force which split into two, then three, then four, in the very beginning of our universe. Possibly something similar happened in the cosmere, since Brandon likes to use science as a basis for his fiction. Perhaps, in the beggining, there was just Andonalsium, composed of pure investiture the Spiritual Realm, who created the Physical Realm, and then the interaction between the two gave rise to the Cognitive Realm?

So this is from Hero of Ages Chapter 78 Epigraphs

As my mind has expanded, I've come to realize that objects and energy are actually composed of the very same things, and can change state from one to another. It makes perfect sense to me that the power of godhood would be manifest within the world in physical form. Ruin and Preservation were not nebulous abstractions. They were integral parts of existence. In a way, every object that existed in the world was composed of their power.

So this quote comes right out and says that everything is made of spiritual power, which supports my idea that the Adonalsium, who made up the Spiritual Realm, created the Physical Realm. My other piece of evidence comes from the Way of Kings. They talk about a spiritual gravitational bond, meaning that the force of gravity is powered by spiritual energy, and presumably the other fundamental forces are too. This is mirrored by Brandon when he mentions spiritual gravitational superstructures that anchor time bubbles, so we know it's not because of in-world ignorance that they refer to the gravitational bond a spiritual. I think both these facts lend support to my idea. What does everyone else think?

[Aradel]

So I have a couple of pieces of evidence for my theory on the way the Three Realms formed, quoted from above, for those who are just reading this.

So this is from Hero of Ages Chapter 78 Epigraphs

So this quote comes right out and says that everything is made of spiritual power, which supports my idea that the Adonalsium, who made up the Spiritual Realm, created the Physical Realm. My other piece of evidence comes from the Way of Kings. They talk about a spiritual gravitational bond, meaning that the force of gravity is powered by spiritual energy, and presumably the other fundamental forces are too. This is mirrored by Brandon when he mentions spiritual gravitational superstructures that anchor time bubbles, so we know it's not because of in-world ignorance that they refer to the gravitational bond a spiritual. I think both these facts lend support to my idea. What does everyone else think?

I think you've stumbled across the entrance Brandon's Handwavium mine.

Answers to everything.