The commands we hear are Almond grass, Bottom line blue,  red panther Verdant bells, and A candle by which to see.These are the more important command phrases in the book so my question to you is what would you choose for your command phrases I would choose silver on ice or little red snakes or ten armies marching. 

What would you choose there are no wring answers 

If so in the future you could quite easily set up a clone farm to harvest breaths.   They don't even need to be good quality clones, even a 5 year life span would be enough time to teach them to talk & brainwash them into giving away their breath.

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The artisan's script is a form of writing in the nation of Hallandren on Nalthis. Unlike most writing systems, which are based on form and shape, the artisan's script is based on color. Each color represents a different sound in Hallandren's language. In its most basic form, simple dots are used. More advanced writers use lines that gradually shift in color, or glyphs that form pictures.^[1]

To use the artisan's script to its full potential requires perfect color recognition granted by the Third Heightening

however, most phonetics don't have so many distinct sounds that it would require the third heightening to tell them apart. (there are abt 2^24 distinct colors in Hexcode, and even the phonics with the most distinct sounds have less than 2^9 , and even I can tell that many colors apart despite being slightly colorblind) 

Instead, we'll encode both the nalthian script and the hexcode color into binary, and then convert between them. We'll use the table seen here (by @TheKingofCrimsonesia) to convert the English into nalthian script (and then into binary) and a binary-to-hexadecimal converter like this one to convert it from there into a base 16 number, which already represents a color in hexcode.

Table Incase the link is wrong:

Since the table is already an 8 by 4 grid, we can use 3 bits to represent the x position on the grid, and 2 bits to represent the y position. That gives 5 bits per letter. Since hexcode has 24 bits (8 in the red, 8 in the green, 8 in the blue), we can fit 4 letters in each number, with 4 extra bits. We may use those four bits later, but for now well leave them blank. 

Lets convert one letter to start. We'll do the letter V, or  

In order to convert the x position on the table to a 3-bit number, we'll use a binary split, and repeat three times. If the letter is on the left of the table, we'll start with a 0, and if it's on the right, we'll start with a 1. V is on the left half, so we start with a 0. then we repeat.

Within the chosen half, if it's in the leftmost 2 columns(L,H), we'll add another 0, if it's in the rightmost 2(A,B), we'll add a 1. V is in the B column, so we'll add a 1. (01)

Within the chosen quarter, if it's in the left column(A), we'll add another 0, if it's in the right(B), we'll add a 1. V is in the B column, so we'll add a 1. (011)

In order to convert the y position, we'll do the same, with up being 0, and down being 1 (V's value for this is 10)

So, V's value is 01110

With the table and this method, we can turn any letter into a 5-digit code in base 2.

we'll use 4 letters per color, and we'll add some extra nuance with the extra 4 bits. I'm using a positive/negative toggle, a me/you toggle, a emotion/apathy, and a null toggle

+/- the word(s) prominent here has a positive connotation if this is 1, opposite if 0

m/y the word(s) prominent here refer to me if this is 1 opposite if 0

e/a the word(s) prominent here matter to the speaker if this is 1 opposite if 0

null if this is 1, nuance toggles from this color are null. no matter what they are set to they have no value either way

So, to convert from English to artisan's script, you 

- convert to nalthian letter grouping (write W as uu, and group Th into {eth}(like in bathe) or {theta}(like in bath) group sh and ch into single letters, also I am choosing to remove silent letters) I LIKE TO WIN becomes I LIK TO UUIN 

set in four letter groups (One group per color) I LIK TO UUIN becomes ILIK TOUU IN

fill extra groups with a soundless letter (I'm using sign & to represent space 11110) ILIK TOUU IN becomes ILIK TOUU IN&&

add nuance  ILIK TOUU IN&& becomes ILIK+me0 TOUU-ya1 IN&&+ma0

convert to binary ILIK+me0 TOUU-ya1 IN&&+ma0 becomes 00011,00000,00011,00111,1110  10010,11100,11111,11111,0001  00011,11001,00010,00010,1100

convert to hexadecimal 00011,00000,00011,00111,1110  10010,11100,11111,11111,0001  00011,11001,00010,00010,1100 becomes 18067E 973FF1 1E442C

convert to color:  18067E 973FF1 1E442C becomes 

1.) Saidin/One Power is Investiture. In this instance, Callandor acts as a conduit for the One Power. When the two blades touch, NIghtblood draws Investiture from the True Source. Callandor is not destroyed, but instead of Rand drawing it's power, Nightblood does so. However, Nightblood may destroy the Sword that Cannot be Touched. If that happens, well, then Rand is dead. But, since there is no Cog/Spirit Realm in WoT, I don't think this is would occur.

2.) Saidin and the One Power are not Investiture. In this instance, I believe that Callandor would be destroyed, as there is nothing else for Nightblood to feed on.

A few other things.

The former theory is assuming that Tel'aran'rhiod is WoT's Cognitive Realm and the True Source is the Spiritual Realm. Which semi-works with the way the World of Dreams and the CR behave.

• You can die in both.
• You can channel/Surgebind/use other means of Investiture in both
• You can move freely if not easily between both.
• Things are present in CR/World of Dreams that are not present in the Physical Realm.

Thoughts, Sharders?

my question is, is nightblood really a good weapon? because what i know of weapons says, not at all.

of course, it's very effective. but the cost is ludicrous. remember, every breath is one lifless. nightblood costs 1000 breath. additionally, nightblood drains breath from the user, at a pretty fast rate of a breath every few seconds. So, let's say you need 1000 breath to make a copy of nightblood, and another 1000 for someone to use it. with that much breath, you could make 2000 lifeless. what's more useful? my money is the lifeless getting a lucky hit well before the guy with nightblood can kill all of them. 

nightblood is, in the best case, the equivalent of hypersonic missiles: they have some niche use, but they are too rare and expensive to have a major impact on the war. in the worst case, it's the equivalent of the yamato or the p-1000 ratte: ludicrously expensive superweapons that end up actually crippling your war effort before either being scrapped for their sheer impracticality, or dealing way too little damage to justify their cost before being overwhelmed by numbers.

so, vasher overreacted. shashara sharing the construction of nightblood with the armies wouldn't have affected the war much, there was no need to kill her. the one-breath command for the creation of lifless, that one is the real breakthrough. 

the one thing nightblood actually does well is to counter kalad's phantoms: those things each cost as much as 50 regular lifeless, but they pay themselves by being virtually impervious to regular weapons. but to nightblood, it doesn't matter. 2000 breath spent on a nightblood clone may actually beat 2000 breath spent on kalad's phantoms. though killing 40 without getting hit is still not easy.

This has made me wonder, is it possible to get the Royal Locks through a method that isn't lineage (not Hemalurgy, we already know that's possible)?

Hypothetical scenario time; Let's say Hoid wants the Royal Locks, but clearly isn't born of the Idrian royal line. He travels to Idris and plays a game of cards with king Dedelin, pitting his (insert magical item here) against Dedelin's Kingdom. Hoid is very persuasive. Hoid (obviously) wins the game, and therefore wins the rulership of Idris.

Now the question I have is, does Hoid now exhibit the Royal Locks, or would the former king Dedelin still have them?

You can break the Command on a Lifeless, overriding its orders.

But what if you do this to a standard item, like a rope? If you break it in, could you also take counter Command it to come to you?

Maybe steal Breath by hacking others' objects essentially?

It would require, I suppose, that you can actually change its Identity or convince it to flow into you and align with your Identity then, but maybe, just maybe you could get loads of Breaths this way.

As an aside, I wonder if anyone's tried Command breaking on a human or Returned before? I bet it might do something like emotional nudging at the very least (Nalthian Soothing and Rioting? Returned already can do something like this passively).

Anyways I didn't care for Warbreaker. I liked everything with Lightsong and Siri, I think both were great characters and both plotlines were engaging. Siri's relationship with Susebron felt very natural and I was a fan of their dynamic. The only plot complaint I have is that the ending was a bit rushed. I wish we'd gotten to see the battle between the Phantoms and Lifeless or at least gotten scenes of Vivenna and Siri saying goodbye and just generally winding down. I think the book could have used a few extra chapters at the end. One of the two things that sunk the book for me was Vivenna. She was just really obnoxious and not at all compelling to read, it reminded me of a more extreme case of Way-Of-Kings-Shallan-Syndrome. I know this is the beginning of her journey and arc.

I imagine we'll see her journey explored in Nightblood, but as it is in Warbreaker I just really didn't like her. And now for the second thing. It's a really small moment but it stood out to me. So 
 

This scene is right when she wakes up. She hasn't spoken to Vasher up until now so this is their very first interaction where he wasn't trying to kidnap her.

 

This storming guy's first reaction to that isn't to say something about how no, assault is despicable and she's safe or anything like that. His first reaction is "No, I didn't assault you because you were unclean." This line highhandedly killed the book for me. Not really sure what Vasher/Brandon was going for here.

 

Younger Breaths are stronger and more vibrant, but young children have less ability to choose responsibly, leading to more moral complications. Plus, you'd lose most of your life having it around, and your immune system isn't fully developed until your late teens/early adulthood. 

An elderly person would give weaker Breath, not to mention that their already compromised immune system would mean giving their Breath would probably kill them shortly thereafter.

However, they do get to keep their Breath most of their life.

Young adulthood seems better, as you're stronger by that time and better able to choose for yourself. You might end up notably weaker for a time, but if society is prepped for people giving Breath at this time it's probably manageable. 

1. Generational passing; I imagine that there are going to be elderly people who are willing to give up their Breaths to their children or grandchildren, since they soon won't need it anymore. Additionally, there could even be family lines that collect Breath over time to stockpile a small fortune, or perhaps that grants Heightenings to a few older family leaders.

As a side note, it would be interesting to see a sub-culture in T'Telir that encouraged the growth of very large families and the pooling of Breath by a certain age as a sort of rite of passage, so that the family as a whole (but especially the elders who held most of it) could prosper. Lots of interesting moral caveats attached to that one.

2. Religious/patriotic sacrifice; during a time of great need (such as wartime) you might see large groups of people being willing to donate their Breaths to a certain cause, such as with Vahr and his fellow rebels.

3. Crusading; perhaps you might see something like this in wartime, where large groups of non-combatants would be captured and forced to give up their Breath to the opposing army. Perhaps this would even be a reason to start such wars in the first place. . . 

4. Straight up torture; we also technically see this in chapter 1 of Warbreaker, so clearly its possible, though I imagine that the seedier parts of T'Telir are going have some criminals who capture regular people to torture the Breath out of them. I'm sure this is a lot easier said than done, but I find it hard to imagine this not happening at least occasionally.

What about other realistic ways we might see Breath being passed around?

What if they all chose to give their Breath to those in need, either to help recover from injuries, to sow or harvest crops with Awakened tools, to build structures, to channel the Iridescent Tones, or on rare occasion to make a skilled Lifeless? Then, when done with what they needed, they'd pass it along.

Over time, you'd get a surplus of Breath as each old generation passed away, leaving the new generation with extra Breath. Keep the cycle going, giving Breath freely amongst a large population, and you'd eventually get many millions of Breaths to be used when necessary.

I get that this requires a large mindset change for most people (which wouldn't really happen) but I wonder if this is the kind of Intent that Edgli would like most, creating a kind of utopia built upon the ideal of Endowment itself. 

Is this because Vasher suppressed his Divine Breath? Or did Endowment set up Divine Breath in a way that Returned Awakeners must reach upper Heightenings from a state of 0 Breaths? 

Speaking of which, I really hope the sequel fleshes out the annotation's idea of Returned Awakeners who wear black, are knowledgeable black is the most powerful color fuel, and have a supply of Breath donors. And I would very interested to learn what Endowment plans for any Returned Awakener's purpose.

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Graendal

A question that's been on my mind for a while. If Returned can't have children, how are Siri and Vivenna descended from one?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. One I have to RAFO. When I was writing WRBRKR, I was planning on two books.

I seeded two questions to be answered in the next book. One was the origin of the royal family..

The second was how Vasher was able to survive while hiding his divine Breath. I will answer these questions.

Eventually. (It has to do with restoring Breath and life to the child while still in the womb.).

 

I finally have a theory. It involves Vo's purpose and the Realmatic mechanics of Divine Breath. I haven't finished all Cosmere books, so I can't post in the Cosmere channel. I won't get deep into Realmatics and don't want to bog this with Cosmere general spoiler blocks. But I hope you awesome people get what I mean.

The Realmatics I want to focus on are aspects of the Divine Breath. 

• Identity - how someone views themselves. Do they view themselves as chronically ill, with missing body parts, or with scars? For example, Susebron sees himself as having no tongue. Susebron's Identity is a man with no tongue.
• Intent. Willing intent from the Returned to heal someone.
• Connection. The bonds that are facilitated by Divine Breath. Bonds to Endowment - the voice that gives Divine Breath - facilitates the Fifth Heightening. Bonds to Endowment, and to the world around them, also facilitate a Returned's ability to see into the past and future

I believe we saw major examples of deliberate Intent and Identity in Warbreaker, when Lightsong gave up his Divine Breath. He needed the Intent to willingly give up his Divine Breath, say the Command, and heal Susebron's tongue.

And in the cosmere, Identity can put a hard stop on healing. If a person is adamant they're always a person with scars or no tongue, their wounds won't heal. That viewpoint is tied onto the Identity. So why did Lightsong's Divine Breath heal Susebron's tongue, who spent all his life without it? It's because it completely bypassed the Identity limitation, healing what Susebron was adamant about not possessing.

But we did not see deliberate Connection from the Returned. Except for two grumpy old wizards, their Fifth Heightening, precognition, and retrocognition were passive abilities. But now I'm theorizing Vo deliberately manipulated Connection - bonds. Specifically the bonds between himself, his wife, and the conceived child. And he deliberately tore off a piece of his Divine Breath and gave it to his child.

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Can Vivenna change her appearance more? She can indeed. She could actually stoke that fragment of a divine Breath inside of her and start glowing like a Returned. She can’t change her physical features to look like someone else, but she can change her age, her height (within reason), and her body shape (to an extent). It takes practice.

This is in the epilogue's annotation. Vivenna, Siri, and the rest of the royal family have a fragment of Divine Breath. If they practiced and knew, they could use similar abilities to a Returned. And of course, that fragment is responsible for the Royal Locks. But why do they have it? What did Vo do so long ago?

My ultimate theory is that Vo did not die on the eighth day by eating his Divine Breath. That was the preconception. And like many preconceptions in Warbreaker, this might have been false. I believe Vo gave up his Divine Breath on the eighth day. He did so with the Intent to bond (Connect) stable life to his wife's now-impregnated womb. Without that Divine Breath, his impregnation would've either not happened or the child would've been stillborn.

In addition, he intended to sacrifice a piece of his Divine Breath that would last through the child and their descendants. And on top of all this I imagine that while Awakening was discovered 200 years later, the Breath transfer Command was known by Vo.

Furthermore my ultimate theory is that Endowment Returned Vo, gifting a lot of additional knowledge other Returned don't get, with the purpose of catalyzing the entire current state of Nalthis

• The trend of Returned all across the world
• Fve Visions of Austrism
• The Cult of the Returned
• Hanald / Hallandren's monopoly over the dye industry
• Royals or Vo descendants who are talented Awakeners - two eventually revolutionized (if not discovered Awakening), one invented an extremely dangerous weapon, and one became the student of Endowment's most important agent

Which chapter or WoB confirmed this?

Funnily, if everyone giving up their Breath felt entitled to getting attention and help from their created god, the Investiture would pressure the person holding it to actually do that instead of just conveniently using it for themselves.

It would probably still be an easy system to abuse, given that all Investiture goes to one person and even with the helpful urging of the people's Breath it would be relatively easy to steal/use only for personal gain, but it would certainly be interesting in that you would have a very, very powerful Awakener to perform government functions.

Makes me wonder, what kind mindset would that give people, if you believed you could shape deity itself to your will? It's a foreign thought process to me, as my own beliefs don't align with that, but it would be very interesting to explore in a story, I think.

Someone told me the god for this world - the entity who shows someone the future and Returns them - is known as Endowment. 

I would like to talk about this more in detail. But it was recommended to read this book before The Stormlight Archive, so no looking on the Coppermind for me. I’ve read all of Mistborn, Elantris, Emperor’s Soul, and Warbreaker. But I would like this to be accessible to people who've only read Warbreaker, so there are no explicit mentions of outside plots. 

I will clarify that this is based on an... attribute of worldbuilding... that gods in the cosmere see infinite future possibilities. They don't know what WILL happen, they see what MIGHT happen. 

My impression after finishing Warbreaker is that Endowment has been using very powerful future sight to purposely construct something grand and very subtle for over 600 years. If not, on a far longer timescale. 

There are a lot of red flags in mind. Sorry for the length. Future sight and prophecy are my hyperfixation:

1. Hallandren's valley is the only jungle on Nalthis, and the only place where the Tears of Edgli can grow. This reminds me of something elsewhere in the cosmere. Something purposely crafted by a god, to fulfill a design in the future.

2. Many unfulfilled Returns happen simultaneously, some even operate on a timescale of >10 years. For example, Blushweaver’s 15 years and Hopefinder’s >11 years.  This seems to imply that Endowment is a god capable of making long-spanning plans that run simultaneously. That’s always a dangerous enemy.

3. I think it's possible she can "tie together" the reasons for certain Returns. Lightsong Returned so he could restore the God King's tongue, which would overpower Bluefingers' revolt. Restoring the God King's tongue was so important because his death would've triggered the destruction of Hallandren, caused by Idrians empowered by Yesteel's swords. Blushweaver Returned to prevent the fall of T'Telir to the invaders that would come after Bluefingers' revolt. And while neither Blushweaver nor Endowment were guaranteed to prevent this, it seems the latter might have taken extra steps to get close. Blushweaver's efforts to gather the armies pushed Lightsong to take action. Blushweaver's murder, and the sacrifices of Calmseer and Brighthue, were things that pushed Lightsong to be the humble investigator who would sacrifice his Breath to his king. And in a way, Lightsong's sacrifice fulfilled the reason for Blushweaver's much earlier Return.

4. The previous point demonstrates Endowment's ability to account for the machinations of both living Returned and mortals. It seems she accounted for the activities of Yesteel, AND the Pahn Kahl manipulations that were active before Bluefingers was steward.

5. There are a few strange Returns, as if they’re meticulously designed by Endowment. Vo was the only Returned to have children, and he had a huge butterfly effect on the world. Infant Returned seem designed to be God Kings for decades or centuries, and I still don’t know what they’ve all done after stepping down. The Five Scholars are huge warnings. Denth and Shashara were either descended from Vo, or were Hanald royals themselves. Then there's Vasher... just…  Vasher. What… even is Vasher. 
6. Out of anyone, I think Vasher has a special purpose among Returned. A vital piece in Endowment's plans. Despite all he's accomplished after more than 300 years, including being the Slaughterer of Scholars, he still hasn't fulfilled his purpose.

7. She chooses to Return infants (God Kings) or toddlers (Hopefinder) for long-spanning purposes. Despite them seemingly not having significant pasts/deaths.

8. If we assume the Returned often draw upon a tiny fraction of Endowment's future sight, and this influences their decisions, I think her plans (or at least the future possibilities she has at her disposal) incorporate various focal events. Including but not limited to: the Manywar being predicted, Vasher starting the Manywar, Vasher taking over Hanald, Vasher starting the dynasty of God Kings, Vasher hiding Kalad's Phantoms, Allmother and Lightsong's meeting, Blushweaver's murder, Llarimar "sleeping," the God King crying, or the close occurrence of Hallandren and Idris going down. I remember a moment where Lightsong dreamed of Nightblood, so I bet Nightblood's existence is a focal point of her plans. Or Yesteel's Nightblood-esque swords.

9. Endowment might be capable of making long-term plans that go beyond the moment a Returned remembers their previous life and dies. Vo's butterfly effect comes to mind. Or, her plans can require a Returned to live beyond the moment of remembrance. Denth remembers Shashara was his sister. Either Arsteel or Yesteel remembered they were brothers. Neither of these can happen without regaining memory… which seems like a meticulous feature planted by Endowment that happens at a specific moment.

10. Alternatively, Endowment could just be extremely adaptable if a plan goes “wrong.” Say…  she didn’t plan for Denth not to give up his divine Breath. It's possible she was able to change and adapt her plans for Denth over the centuries. 

  
That's pretty much it. I just think that even with the small crumbs of Nalthian history we got, there were a lot of strange things that got me thinking a god "ordained" some of this stuff. For what reasons, I don't know. Just wanted to cover all the bases of what her future sight might encompass. 

Wanted to get this out of the way, before I start my first read of The Stormlight Archive.

Hope someone enjoys this.

Awakened Clay seems like a much better alternative to making an Awakened Golem with T-1000 abilities, problem is that clay isn't alive, so it'd take the 9th Heightening right?

But what if it wasn't entirely clay? What if you mixed in human bodily fluids like blood or spit with the clay to make it more 'alive' and then Awakened it? Could that work?

We know that using a part of one's own body, like hair, can act as a 'Focus' to cheapen the cost of Breath for Awakening, so if how would it work if living tissue was mixed with a non-organic substance? Would it make it easier to Awaken?

So, does this mean Nalthis is the perfect place for ultra-rich immortal schemers to organically rise?

I mean, if you were super rich and could literally buy off death, wouldn't you?

And, with that agelessness, why wouldn't you be willing to wait a few decades to see more long-term plans come to fruition? Plans that mortals can't really compete with, since they have a very finite lifespan. 

Seems like Nalthis should have lots of these in the future, at least to me.

I wish Vivenna and Vasher's POVs had slightly faster pacing and more insight into their headspaces. Especially Vasher. But I think Brandon did a great job getting the ball rolling once they intersected. Their arcs had me emotionally invested by the end. Nightblood is there for terrifying but adorable comic relief, so that's fun.

Siri and Susebron. Great characters, loved their arcs, and their relationship is so lovely. If I could praise Sanderson for one thing, he knows how to write bonds and character progression.

Blushweaver and Llariimar are lovely side characters. RIP Blushweaver, who was a prick that one time but I loved her desire to protect Hallandren. RIP Treledees, even though you were a butthole. Tonk Fah was funny and Jewels was interesting. But I wanted to spend more time with them, especially Jewels. I'm confident Clod is the animated corpse of Arsteel. 

I’m mixed about the ending. The revelations, twists, and dynamics coming together were fantastic! As always, the sanderlanche slaps. But I think Brandon should have extended the aftermath by a chapter or two. So we get a proper goodbye to Siri and Susebron, and see how Llarimar is doing. I'm sure the murder of priests and one Returned, the betrayal of scribes, a God King that speaks, and the release of Kalad's Phantoms would impact whatever Hallandren becomes.

Lightsong should especially be significant in the aftermath IMO. He gave up his Breath to create something unseen among God Kings - one with a tongue. That is very significant for the world. 

Peacegiver is so much of a god that the God King calls him "lord," and he meets that lord. The core characters certainly wouldn't reveal Vasher's significance to the public. But I think they, and possibly Llarimar, should come together to discuss his past IMO. Vasher is both Kalad AND Peacegiver. The one who transformed the jungle and mountains in two major ways that have persisted for centuries. I am shocked Sanderson just… moved on from that. I've never had that impression from his endings so far, not even for Elantris.

Got a quick question about Kalad's Phantoms. 

When I read Warbreaker, and ever since, I have imagined the phantoms as vaguely human sized. They are bigger than a normal person, but not by much. I imagined them as basically 7 ish feet tall and just a bit thicker than your most buff dude. 

However, when looking at the Warbreaker leatherbound, it shows an image of statues. These statues are presumably the phantoms, and they are HUGE. (image below)

I feel like Brandon wouldn't let an image that misrepresents the Phantoms into the most expensive copy of that book. However, I also feel like if they were that big it would have been mentioned. I checked the book and it mentions that they are 'oversized' but gives no indication they are 20+ feet tall. 

Thoughts? Are these different statues?

I started Warbreaker about two months ago. But school and learning about mental health slowed down my pace. I’ve been slowly reading it and I’m finally halfway through it. I'm on chapter 31.

So far the pacing is slower than a Mistborn book, but faster than Elantris. I think it’s worked pretty well. 

Much like the other Cosmere books I’ve read, the scope/history of Warbreaker's world isn’t as descriptive or vast as I would like. Much like Era 1's outer Dominances, or the Roughs and explorers and unknown regions of Era 2, the nations don't have much interconnection apart from Hallandren and Idris. The other nations exist to establish a vast world outside the "central" nations. This isn't a dealbreaker, but I wish Sanderson's worldbuilding delved far beyond them.

However, in terms of describing a unique world, this is Sanderson’s best. Everything about this world is so colorful and descriptive. Awakening is shaping up to be my favorite Cosmere magic system! I'm a fan of versatile magic systems that anyone can access. Everything about the Returned is so engaging, and even the brief mentions of non-Hallandren Returned are cool. 

Vasher’s POV is very cool. Vivenna’s arc didn't have an interesting start, but I'm warming up to it. Siri's arc is very compelling and I was NOT expecting Susebron's character development. Or the talking storming murder sword Nightblood and Susebron are so cute. Denth and Tonk Fah are so funny.

Lightsong and the other Returned are the best parts of the book. The politics, Lightsong’s theory on Returned appearances, the dreams and visions, the Third Heightening! MY GOD! It's all so beautiful.

I’m especially intrigued by Llarimar's theory that all Returned come back with a purpose. It seems this world’s Shard gives tiny pieces of their future sight to certain dead people, who become the Returned. Then the Shard uses the Returned to play a game of future sight 5D chess. Vo, Peacegiver, Lightsong, Blushweaver, Hopefinder, and the God Kings all seem like important pawns. 

Also, I'm making a few connections to Secret History

Other than awakening cloth or tassels on their weapon, what could they use to turn a weapon into a unique and dangerous tool?

Doubtlessly you could have a command phrase to have the jumping bean lead someone to a set location, but what more could be done?

Im tagging @alder24 to probably say no to the attack jumping beans, and @Trusk'our to help me come up with some creative jumping bean ideas.

I know that today there is a certain aversion to AI but beyond the ethical and business dilemmas it is still a very interesting technology.

So, a Breath coming from a dying person is supposed to be weaker than normal, or at least it can be.

What about Lemex's Breaths though? He was dying and gave it to Vivenna right before he passed away, so would that make her Breaths weaker?

And why would the Breath be weaker? Is it that some of it escapes to the SR upon death, or maybe it transfers to and is trapped in the Awakener's Spiritweb?

(Not really a spoiler in my opinion as I feel it doesn't give any plot stuff away but essentially there's a passage that implies awakening can give animals the ability to speak)

This is interesting because it implies a side of awakening we haven't seen yet (I'm sure there's much more to this magic system we haven't seen yet). Anyway, I'm curious because it sparks new questions. 

Is this possible by giving a specific command (such as "speak" or "speak as though you were human") or could it be an effect of achieving a certain threshold of breaths like a heightening?  Finally, if an animal can speak can they awaken? 

That last one is almost too ridiculous to believe but it sounds theoretically possible although I doubt they would be good at it unless they also get increased intelligence somehow. I would love to hear other thoughts on the subject.

Hypothetically, could someone chop off parts of their body (say, hands or arms), sow them back on, and with a sufficiently complex command, awaken their body part as a versatile prothetic?

the end result of this would be an effect similar to a kandra—being able to move and manipulate parts of your body in very grotesque and seemingly impossible ways. Pulling back fingers to reveal blades, using your thigh as a skin pocket, etc. potentially, though I’m not quite sure of the nature of lifeless, you would create a lifeless hand similar to Thing in the Addams Family. 
 

(For those curious, this is a hypothetical based on a character that I’m making in the Alleyverse RP. I have…a lot of such theories, honestly.)

This seems to be a simple question, yet I can’t seem to find the answer to it anywhere.

The core of a command is the verb. This is universal throughout the commands. There is a central verb that describes what the object is to do. Some examples used in the novel are "Grab," "Hold," and "Climb," among others. There are slight variants from this rule, often taking the form of partial verb phrases like "Fight for."

The second part of a command is the subject. Only three types of subjects are used in Warbreaker; "things," "me," and "something (representing saying a specific object as the subject)." This appears in most commands except for when the subject is the object itself, like "Untie."

The third part of a command doesn't appear in most commands. An awakener can optionally add an adjective to their command phrase, describing how to carry out a command. A great example of this is when Vasher commands a pile of clothes to "Fight for (verb) me (subject) as if you were me (adjective).

If I missed something or am misunderstanding something, please let me know.

Quote

Warbreaker Annotations - Arcanum (coppermind.net)

Brandon Sanderson

Siri Enters and Sees Returned

Just a little note here. Returned live for eight days without a Breath, though the week is seven days long in this world. Why? Well, I figured that they'd need an extra day as leeway. On day seven, they start to grow weak and sluggish. If they don't consume a Breath, their body will consume their own on the eighth day of their life, and they'll die again.

In some parts of this world, Returned aren't worshipped, but instead seen as something akin to vampires. They draw in Breath to survive, and need a supply of people to feed off of. They tend to wear black, since it's the most powerful color for draining to Awaken things.

So, let's have an imaginary scenario play out; and Awakener brings to life two Lifeless with a single Breath Command. The two Lifeless were made from two people who were the same in skill, age, and physical and mental capacity.

However, one has a very dark skin tone while the other is an albino. Would the Lifeless made from the person with darker skin have a higher awareness, since they had more color to fuel the Awakening process?

Also, what about tattoos? If you Awakened someone with tattoos, would the Awakening draw on their color as well? If so, perhaps you could make a more effective Lifeless would be to tattoo every inch of the body you want to Awaken (though, would you have to do it while they were still alive?).

¨I try to avoid having thoughts. They lead to other thoughts, and-if you´re not careful-those lead to actions. Actions make you tired. I have this on rather good authority from someone who once read it in a book

Jewels said that her Breath got her family enough money to feed them for a year. Her family was composed of herself, her parents, and her five siblings, which totaled to eight people. What lasts eight people for one year, should last one person eight years, as finding the average cost of food for one person is significantly easier.

Assuming they were frugal and didn't eat extravigently that works out to roughly $39,000 USD per Breath. (Based on the average amount of money spent on food by the lowest quartile in 2021, which was $4,875)

Assuming they kept their standard of living as middle class(With roughly $7,600 per year in 2021) then a Breath is valued at $60,800 USD.

Now the real numbers would likely be quite a bit higher, as food used to cost more, however sources from those times aren't exactly giving me the data neccesary.

And just for fun I decided to calculate how much Susebron's trove of Breath is, which worked out to between 24.375 Million USD, and 3.04 Billion USD.

There may be some advantages to being able to give your orders to the army en masse and perhaps there is some degree of identifying how to work together when the whole group is given orders simultaneously, but it probably isn't as simple as the group sharing the same core security phrase as typically the army is divided between 4 Returned. Correctly identifying friend or foe, particularly in a chaotic battlefield seems really important for wars involving tens of thousands of soldiers. Is it at all related to how Nightblood, who isn't good at discerning what is Evil Connects to his wielder and utilizes their judgment? How does that work when the army is far away from the person originally giving the orders?

In essence, what do people think are the rules that would govern ordering Lifeless into battle and correctly identifying the enemy?

Hallandren acquired these Phantoms after the Pahn Kahl rebellion, and used them effectively against the regular lifeless army. From what we saw Susebron is fairly peaceful and is unlikely to use these phantoms to conquer other nations. 

This means that the Phantoms will simply be standing around in Hallandren, while the news about these reborn/recalled Phantoms spreads. Eventually, although it might take a while, other nations will realise what they are, either through experimentation or spionage, and build their own. At this point most of the Nalthian kingdoms will have Phantoms replacing their regular lifeless.

This will change how warfare is practised on Nalthis, regular humans becoming even less important. Nations from other planets will also have trouble fighting with Nalthian kingdoms, as many nations don’t have access to this kind of firepower, although some invested arts might destroy this advantage. 

Even with the inevitable discovery of guns and artillery Phantoms will stay the main troops used, stone is still far more resistant to bullets then flesh, although their importance might go down.

Chapter 43:

You’ve got enough Breath for at least the Third Heightening, if I’m reading you right. You’ll never know sickness.

Coppermind:
The Fifth Heightening grants Agelessness; an Awakener's resistance to aging and disease reaches its maximum strength.

Is there a canon reason or not. And if not, can you guys think of good reasons?

Breath, Princess,” he said. “I inherited it from my predecessor, and I’ve bought more. A lot more . . .”

God of Colors . . . Vivenna thought with a sick feeling in her stomach.

“I know it was wrong,” Lemex whispered. “But . . . I felt so powerful. I could make the very dust of the earth obey my command. It was for the good of Idris!

I have just one question, what? Make the dust obey his command?

Will the Lifeless be able to be trained to act as effectively as a Lifeless who was originally a soldier in life and then made into a Lifeless? Basically, can you train a Lifeless new skills effectively?

Soooo, really small objects/robots. Now awakening has some good potential in this field, give it some good commands and sure it will search for cancer cells and eliminate them! All you need is good visualisation of what needs to happen. Awakening could do great things in this field, eliminating cancer, treating certain sicknesses etc. 

Awakening could also be used to create or manage certain things within the body, basically micromanaging your body’s functions and abilities. ‘Oh your stomach isn’t a good environment for this specific type of bacteria that breaks down your food? We’ll replace that for you!’

The only large downside I can think of right now is that it will cost a lot of breath, and breaths simply aren’t that easy to gather. What do you guys think?

Breath has many uses, the most known use is awakening, but it can also be used to store memories and according to a question from dragonsteel 2023 (posted on reddit) breath can also be used to return a cognitive shadow to a body, although it won’t actually stay there. 
 

So what if Biochroma is it’s own system, and all of these functions are aspects of it, to use breath one only needs a command, intent, and perhaps color. If this theory is correct you could use breath for a lot more things.
 

Lifesense senses everything that is alive, or, as a popular theory states, it senses investiture. Wait, bacteria are considered alive, so you can probably sense bacteria as well. 

Basically everything around you has bacteria growing on it, by sensing bacteria you will sense the contours of everything around you,. And the best thing is that unlike with ironsight you don’t even have to be ‘looking’ at it. 

So, do we have another version of Ironsight?

This is due to how modernisation on Nalthis will go hand in hand with innovation in awakening, fairly quickly awakening will be used in everyone’s life, if indirectly such as through the production of electricity or the purification of water. Idris will not only lack these technologies, but due to there being easy ways using breath, the technologies which we use for these same things will be severely underdeveloped. Due to their refusal to using breath they might also get behind on the markets of the world, as awakening will provide cheaper and faster ways of making products then regular machines. This would result in Idris having no chance to compete outside its own markets, and either a full economic collapse or a self functioning, but expensive, market (assuming they don’t import more then truly necessary).

This all means that at the very least Idris will become technologically inferior, and people will seek out the other nations in the area as life there is much better. This would lead to the population of Idris becoming smaller every year. Another more serious consequence is that of another nation invading. Awakening is already being used in warfare by the time of the manywar, and as awakening improves this role will only become larger, think of self flying aircraft or tanks that can drive and shoot autonomously etc, Idris will be horribly outmatched against a nation with these technologies and more. 

The only future where Idris survives is one without Austrism, or at least the current version of it. Fortunately it is likely that as technology advances Idris will have to change its views on awakening, as ignoring it is simply not viable. 
 

What do you guys think?

Also, I'm sorry if this isn't in the right thread, I wasn't quite sure where to put it.

I suspect that the difference of whether or not an object awakens regularly or instead becomes a lifeless is dependent upon whether or not the objects realmatically sees itself as being still alive rather than completely dead but with the memory of life. (I theorise that older corpses a generally harder to awaken even if well preserved than new corpses for this reason)

I think it might be as difficult to awaken coal as it is to awaken stone despite coal's and for that matter oil's connection to ancient life due to the sheer time elapsed.

We haven't really seen anyone try to awaken a whole dead plant before, but we have seen them awaken things related to plants. (ropes, etc.) If you were to awaken a tree which has just recently died would it see itself as being alive enough to become a lifeless?

Simpler, can you make Ents using Awakening?

---

Would it know how to move its legs if you carve them into it quickly enough? Maybe with the same movement mechanism as the cloth or rope it still could regardless (Trees branches and roots are surprisingly flexible). @Faceless Mist-Wraith

This has started making me wonder, is it possible for people who receive Breaths when they are old to reverse their appearance to that of being younger as well as feeling younger?

After all, it's possible for people with enough Investiture to change their body's appearance to what they feel it should be, so maybe it's possible for Breaths too.

Yumi spoilers;

For Lightsong parts of his former life came back to him right before he killed himself again.

Somehow Arsteel, Yesteel, VaraTreledees and Shashara remember that they were siblings.

Are they really siblings or do they just think so? Like random Returned children being raised together. Sounds highly unlikely for 2 siblings to become Returned.

When I was reading through the Warbreaker annotations and Brandons explanation on what would be confusing for the reader etc. I noticed that this part also makes little sense without an explanation. It is just used to blatantly that I never really questioned it before, but Denth should not remember that Shashara was his sister. Neither should Arsteel and Yesteel.

Warbreaker seems to me like a much more manageable movie than Mistborn for the simple fact that there's no Allomancy. So lets get started

(Semi-joke list)

Director: Joss Whedon

Lightsong: Nathan Fillion

Scoot: Alan Tudyk 

(Hoid needs to played by the same guy in every movie or HBO sereies) 

Vivenna: Morena Baccarin

Siri: Jewel Staite (because I love her)

Bluefingers: Ron Glass

Adam Baldwin: Vasher

Andrew Bryniarsky (Crow): Tonk Fah

Gina Torres :  The Nurse

I cant think of anyone else from the show to be anyone else, there are a lot of Characters missing but it's been a while since I've read Warbreaker. After I'm done with AoL I'm reading it again. But for now,  Your thoughts to mine.

Any WoB?

Here is what we know (according to coppermind) 

Would likely be called Nightblood

Would focus on Vasher, Vienna, and nightblood trying to stop Yessteel as he does new things with an improved version of ichor-alcohol blood. The coppermind says it could also include trying to create awakened shardblades and a second manywar. 

It would also give us more information on the origin of the Idrian royal family, Returned and would act as a bridge for why certain characters from Warbreaker show up in Stormlight.

What I would like to see

I can't remember where but I've heard the idea of a lifeless PoV character. It seems impossible but there were hints in the first book that some lifeless were more aware than others, such as Arsteel being more animated when he was fighting. It would be very interesting

I would want to see new ways to use Breaths including new commands. I would specifically want to see new ways Awakening can be used in combat because I feel like it doesn't really compare to Allomancy or Surgebinding when it comes to power. 

I would also want to see Vienna get better at Awakening because

I also think it would be interesting to see a different kingdom besides Hallendran and how they view Breaths and Returned because outside of a few countries, we don't know much about Nalthis

Anyway, we don't have a lot to go off but what would y'all like to see in a warbreaker sequel? 

It’s paper and marker and the spheres we used nerf balls.  We used these little pieces of paper to mark where a sphere was thrown, as we only had four nerf balls.

My second question was that is each persons breath unique? Like if you have your breath, is it distinguishable if you swapped it with a different one?

I tried to compile everything in Warbreaker about Tarachin, but there might be more stuff in WoBs that I haven't seen. Anyways here's what I've got. (spoilered for size)

Now that is not very much to go off of. There's basically nothing about the game in the annotations either, except to say that it was based off a game from a deleted Elantris scene called Stones. I read that scene to see if there was anything useful. There wasn't. 

The game should probably have lots of different coloured balls. In the deleted scene the game is split into rounds and after each person throws once, it ends and one person gets a point. It's very different in Warbreaker though, so we should probably disregard that. There's not a ton of information, and this is probably going to take a whole lot of playtesting, but if anyone at all is interested, even just for something simple like designing the balls/board, that would be really cool.

Edit : I'm going to start putting the rules that we make here.

We know that Returned appear more in accordance with how they see themselves and how society sees them (WoB and other WoB), so would one of these Returned be less like a superhuman in appearance and more like an actual vampire? Plus, the whole increased physical speed and strength lends to the vampire theme as well.

Now I actually really want to see Returned from other cultures on Nalthis and how they are different from the Hallendren Returned.

I don't believe that they would, though. Because... (more Mistborn spoilers)

So what are some commands you think everyday people might be able to use with their one or two or so breaths that would be useful to them?

One example of a known one-breath command is of course the creation of lifeless, though this is a bit of an odd one since you can't retrieve the breath afterwards. So while it's possible someone might see it worth their while to create a lifeless to have an extra set of hands helping out, it probably isn't the norm.

But what about more average, very simple to commands? One possibility is you might be able to use a breath as a timer. Perhaps you could invest your breath in some object with the command "return after an hour" to let you know when an hour has passed by your breath returning to you. What are some commands you can think of that you might be able to do with only one or two breaths that would be useful for the average working person?

WoR Spoilers

It might help explain why Lightsong is winning without effort if it was one of the "skills" he retained (like the juggling). 

Just in case, spoiler here

The important part is that Endowment can take herself apart via Breaths. Not to the point that it would ever naturally happen via people being born, but it can happen, especially if Endowment is signing on. So my idea is this

Gather up Endowment’s entire power into Breath and put them in tons of people, who would get 10+ Heightenings. Have them dunk those Breaths into an object with some Command. You might need to rely on the Eighth Heighening to keep the train going, but if that doesn’t work, you just give the Breaths to the new object like you might a person (presumably you can)

Now, i have three questions about this setup. 
 

1. Can you turn an Awakened object into a Shard? I assume yes, though it probably has to be sentient like Nightblood is.

2. If yes to 1, can Endowment do this without the middlemen for something like Nightblood? (regular Awakened objects likely won’t do)

3. Would the Command given have any effect on the new Shard’s Intent? I would guess yes and no. I would suggest that the Commands might form a sub-intent or other psychological quirk, but the Intent would still include Endowment. Best case scenario is you get some Endowment-hybrid like Harmony is. However, you might still be able to use other Cosmere magic systems like Forgery to pull the trick instead.

If all of this is possible, I nominate a toilet to become Endowment. It’s Command is “Clean things”.

1. How many Breaths do you need to guarentee a sapient Lifeless?

2. Can you make a Lifeless from the body of a Sliver whose Cognitive Shadow was sticking around? Especially since it’s the Breath that gets a personality and not the person?

3. If a Lifeless had multiple Breaths, could you harvest better Hemalurgic spikes from them?

4. Could a Lifeless kandra or mistwraith self repair more effectively and last longer than a human?

Edit: When I said Hemalurgic spikes, I was more thinking of traits like senses. Not the actual animating Breath. (though just about any trait should work)

2nd edit: To clarify, I mean sapience specifically. Not just sentience like Clod has

Because it is possible to give only a few Breaths instead of all of them at once, and Susebron does love Siri a lot, so I feel like we'll be seeing them in later Cosmere books.

Any thoughts?

i don't think there's any other book that i've hated so much to start with, but ended up loving.

Then it came to me, Heightenings, Awakened Objects almost always possess enough Breath for at least the first Heightening which would give them access to Lifesense, so that's how Awakened Objects see the people around them.

There's probably more to this though, considering that they can react to their non-living environment though that might be explained by the visualization of their Command.

Though I'm guessing that Awakened Objects wouldn't get much use from Perfect Pitch or Perfect Colour Recognition, but I still think it's remarkable if this were true.

I'm just thinking about if Endowment decides to get involved with the greater Cosmere, this could be one way to do it, with an army or a whole organization of Returned loyal to her, doing her bidding across the Cosmere.

Of course, this probably won't happen but still, I think it's worth thinking about.

Just curious for thoughts.

Like if you have 1,000 Breaths and try to Awaken a cloak that would only need 200 Breaths, could you instead choose to Awaken it with 500 Breaths?

And would this have any benefits, like the object might be able to handle slightly more complex Commands or something?

Actually, expanding upon that now that I'm thinking about it, people of the fifth heightening are immune to diseases too. So while you almost certainly wouldn't want to consume rotten meat, because it's going to taste bad and I'd be willing to bet Breath affects your ability to taste just like your other senses, there's really no risk to you if you want to try eating raw meats or dairy or so on.

At any rate, I doubt there's enough potential customers of the fifth heightening or above to sustain a chef even if they charge extravagant prices of every poisonous meal, so it's probably something that certain master chefs learn above and beyond their other culinary expertise.

In the world we see torture used an awful lot to convince someone to give over their breath.  

If you were to take a single tool from another system to help you which do you think would have more of a benefit?  

Emotional allomancy or connection (feruchemical or as a bondsmith although I think feruchemical duralumin would be much easier to get to Nalthis).  I guess illusion magic or shape-shifting could help as well.  If there are other options I would definately be open to hearing them.  

then when T-Odium hit Hoid at the end of Rhythms of War, he did something with his Breaths that made him forget. 
 

How does this work?  Have we gotten any other info on this?

Two princesses, one of which wants to shirk her responsibility as a ruler but is forced into a role she doesn't want (bonus: she falls in love with someone previously considered a monster who turns out to be really nice) and the other of which is extremely naïve and has to learn hard lessons about real life.

A wisecracking, lighthearted protagonist with a heart of gold.

A gruff, cranky old guy with a heart of gold who takes on the role of a mentor figure/companion to one of the main characters.

A classic Disney movie betrayal, complete with classic Disney 'I'm evil because reasons' villain and a lovable yet evil sidekick.

A visual style that's perfect for songs, including a visually appealing magic system.

And of course, a parent who kinda sucks.

So yeah, Warbreaker's a Disney movie. Not saying it should be adapted as one, (although that might be pretty cool) but it has a lot of the key elements that make up the classic Disney movie, and no one can convince me that Siri isn't the perfect Disney princess.

For that matter, could you Awaken something with a self-destructive Command, like telling a log to "Split" or a cloth to "Tear yourself"?

Can be for awakening just about anything, from combat to awakening a spoon so it stirs soup for you