Returned

I would probably choose Allomancy. Feruchemy is amazing and cool, but I think that the books gloss over how much time and capacity has to be spent to get enough of an attribute stored to do the really dramatic or useful stuff. It's still hard to turn down, even so.

We're probably already in MK Ultra territory on Scadrial at the end of era 2, depending on how particular you want to be. I agree that it will almost certainly be worse in era 3. Supersoldiers are already very achievable in the Cosmere and so I'm curious about what the specific aims being pursued will be. Nothing good, presumably.

We don't have a ton of examples, but what few we do have suggest that Shards' proximity to the users of their magic systems is not important to that magic still being available to those users. As examples, we have worldhoppers who travel far from their original systems and can still use their powers (the Feruchemist in WaT, Vasher, era 4 Scadrians, Nomad, Shai in Lost Metal, Hoid's use of various powers in various settings, and others). Investiture may continue to accumulate even when a Shard has left, though we have fewer examples of this (I'm thinking of the one on Patji). It seems like creating a magic system might require (or at least involve) a Shard Investing themselves heavily in a place, though. So I don't think that Cultivation leaving would have any effect on Lift. There certainly may be subtleties we don't know about, but major effects have not been clearly shown.

I brought up the Command not as a suggestion of what the Ghostbloods would do here but rather as evidence that memories can be altered: 1. by a person other than the one whose memory will be altered; 2. without the specific cooperation or consent of the one being altered; and 3. selectively and precisely (though not necessarily with the precision needed for this task). I don't think that Vasher was interested in hurting or maiming Denth, if he could avoid it, so I doubt he would have been motivated to do this to him, but that's tangential. We've learned that most things one magic system can do, another can also do, so it strongly suggests that something like a coppermind could accomplish this (all else being equal). Whether or not it could be deployed in this situation is an open question, and the big sticking point would be another person having the powers, skill, and knowledge to impose this on the Herald. Some hemalurgic monster or team of medallion-holders might be able to rig something together with a combination of metallic arts. Even if memory modification isn't the right tack I still think that attacking the Herald's mind is by far the most likely avenue to succeed-- memory just happens to be the part of that I think the Scadrians are most likely to know how to work with. We weren't limited to a particular era in the OP and so the era 2 timing seems like an unfair restriction to impose. If nothing else, a Herald coming to Roshar implies era 4 because that is the only time when someone so Invested and Connected to Roshar is known to be able to leave it like this. Also, the narrative setup specifically mentions an Awakened bronzemind being present, so they are necessarily available. I brought up the Awakened metalmind specifically because it suggests as-yet unknown possibilities (ill-defined, as you are right to point out) but, more importantly because it would help with the coordination-of-powers problem such a task would require, absent a Fullborn. We're not talking about an airtight plan that will definitely work, we're talking about what efforts the Ghostbloods might be able to apply to accomplish a nearly unapproachable task. It's "what's your best shot", and like I said any agent should be expecting to fail at this. No. Not if it's appropriately prepared. Quadriplegic, truncated, permanently/continuously sedated, whatever. Anything you can maintain to keep the Herald locked down. If you just stick it into some random body then yes, you have accomplished nothing in exchange for extreme risk.

Vasher demonstrates that he knows a Command which can alter memories in Warbreaker (I think that's where he shows it, he removes a bad memory from a young girl somewhere in one of the books). I have no idea about any of the specific mechanics nor if it would even maybe work on a Herald. We already know that the Heralds' great age and supernatural state causes problems with their minds, and we have WoBs about Hoid's need to manage his memories using Breath. Taravangian excised pieces of that memory repeatedly, altering pure Investiture, so maybe the degree of Investiture isn't enough to protect against this sort of manipulation. I doubt the Ghostbloods have that level of knowledge, skill, or capacity though-- we've only seen a Shard do it, and it surprised even Hoid. Scadrians also might have access to unique abilities that could accomplish this, maybe an Awakened coppermind that can just extract information. We don't really know anything about what Awakened metalminds can do. Maybe feruchemical duralumin could mess with their powers? Not permanently, I don't think, like memory modification could be. I'd meant post-death, when the physical body is destroyed again. I think that the returning from death is the most pernicious aspect of opposing the Heralds. It's already unreasonably difficult to deal with them in the flesh, but when death is more of a delaying inconvenience for them the effort of killing one is even less worthwhile. Spiking the cognitive shadow to a different physical form might potentially interfere with re-corporealizing into another iteration of their real bodies, which may or may not limit their abilities. Again, I don't think any of these are amazing plans. If Kelsier charged me with this task I would try my best but would be prepared to be killed for failing, whether by Kelsier or the Herald.

Fiddle with the Herald's memories (Vasher-style, Odium-style might not be available) so that they don't understand how to return from Braize. Then take the Herald out in a more conventional way (lots of bodies, trap them in an oxygen-less environment, something like that) and enjoy your respite from their presence. Or, if we are assuming we can fiddle with their minds like this, just alter them into beings that won't bother you. Maybe continue to damage them in the hopes that they wind up like Jezrien, shattered beyond further interest in doing things? Maybe there's a leeching angle that could be taken? Awakened metalminds that drain Investiture (possibly as a follow-up to similar constructions that drain other attributes, making the Herald less devastatingly overpowered) might be capable of doing something. Cognitive shadows are basically Investiture in a specific form, so draining it away might be somehow equivalent to damaging a primarily physical being's body. Use whatever specific tricks Kelsier has learned to hemalurgically staple their Investiture into a physical body might address some of their super-poweredness, at least compared to their spontaneously regenerating bodies when they return from Braize the typical way. They're so highly Invested that I don't know how helpful that could be even under the most favorable setup. These all seem like bad plans to me. But directly opposing a Herald is fundamentally a pretty desperate situation.

I like the idea, though I'm not sold on it being what is happening here. It's in line with what we currently understand about how Cultivation works: not really direct, and not hard-stopping others' plans but rather nudging their development in directions she can respond to. She acts in the present to mold the future in ways that provide options for herself, as opposed to trying to follow specific paths to specific outcomes based solely on guidance from her "knowledge" of "the future". If nothing else this would be an example of someone in the Cosmere using futuresight in a way that relates to how it actually works rather than depending on it when it's known to be very unreliable, which would be refreshing. Most futuresight in the Cosmere kind of sucks, outside of era 1 atium and Sak the Aviar.

I think it depends on what counts as breaking one of the oaths, but what evidence we have suggests that they need to follow relevant laws exactly. We see Nale go to a lot of trouble to follow existing, formally established procedure in every way (following the strict letter of the law), such as having the proper paperwork to kill Lift but immediately stopping when a new emperor pardons her. He also scolds a recruit for killing to keep a promise (which the recruit thought was necessary to honor) but in a way that was illegal for where they were. So evidence suggests that they need to follow the law exactly, but the consequences for being loose with it are unclear. At the same time, it's clear that they have a lot of leeway in determining their actions and what laws might be relevant. Nale was set on killing Lift and the laws he respected while trying to carry that out were more of a formality than anything, even though he took them seriously. His decision that the legally correct thing to do was to side with Odium and the Singers seems to have been a product of his own judgement, superseding laws that otherwise might have applied because the people who made them did not have valid authority to impose them (based on that judgement he made). There is an obvious limitation on knowing the laws to be followed, but it seems as though a Skybreaker has an obligation to be aware of all laws relevant to where they are operating. I'm not sure how that would work in practice. I imagine the assessment of their spren is what would count in such a case, and that's probably not something that can be generalized to the whole order.

It's as reasonable a guess as any, but it's still a guess about how the Plate works. For Plate to behave as you describe it would need to have some method of accessing additional Investiture, but the only way we know of that dead Plate does that is via spheres (or possibly drawing from an Invested person, if that does indeed work). The only time we see dead Plate vary its rate of drawing Investiture is when repairing damage, with more damage drawing more power more quickly. That itself might resolve the mystery: no one with dead Plate knows enough to use it in this way, and that's why we don't see any variation in what it can do. If we were to see more of Plate around when Sunlit Man takes place maybe we would see all kinds of new ways of interacting with it. Living Plate can draw directly from the spiritual realm somehow, but we've seen even less of that than we have dead Plate and so maybe it too is adaptive but no narrators are aware enough to comment on it. A good analogue might be the enhanced strength of objects that have been Awakened, beyond what their materials should be able to do, which would support your idea. All that would be needed is some way to get more Investiture into the already highly-Invested Plate. That seems like a solvable issue. Plate is often referred to along the lines of being essentially magical powered armor. "Traditional" powered armor (if we can have a traditional version of a made up thing) requires some minimum amount of strength inside to manipulate the controls or otherwise direct the suit, and then the strength the armor offers is static; more electricity doesn't make it mechanically more able to bear weight or do work. If we imagine Plate as being essentially mechanical (though with a magical mechanism), it would be sort of like working the controls of a large piece of equipment: the strength of the operator doesn't matter because it's the machine that does all the work. Being twice as strong might mean you can work the controls twice as hard, but that doesn't affect what the machine itself can lift.

This is the crux of the question, and is an assumption I don't think we know enough to make. If Plate takes whatever your strength is and enhances it by 10x, then burning pewter to become twice as strong would translate to the Plate offering 20x strength over your base state. If, on the other hand, Plate has a flat capacity to lift 1000 pounds (I'm just making up a number) then burning pewter wouldn't do anything because the Plate's maximum lifting ability is still 1000 pounds. I don't see any particular reason to believe that the Plate offers a simple multiplier. When Jasnah is wearing her Plate she doesn't seem to be any more or less strong than Adolin or Dalinar despite the latter two being professional soldiers and Jasnah being a scholar. We should expect the soldiers to be considerably stronger, but they don't seem to be any more physically capable in their Plate than Jasnah. Maybe Jasnah's inhalation of Stormlight accounts for it. When Renarin first starts training with his Plate in WoR he doesn't seem to be any less strong in his Plate than Adolin. The issue is that we just don't see people who are so dissimilar outside of their Plate doing similar tasks within it and so the comparisons are not straightforward. But I don't see any obvious reason that Plate doesn't offer some sort of multiplier, either. When Dalinar catches the chasmfiend's claw in WoK people seem surprised and impressed by the feat. Maybe that's a function of him doing something in Plate that is unusually strong, suggesting some kind of multiplier. But maybe they're only impressed with his boldness and decisive action to risk himself in order to be able to catch the claw, and the strength the move required was not surprising, which seems at least as plausible to me.

Per Dalinar's observation in WoK, the Shardplate enhances your strength but you still have to use your body to do the work. In that sense, if no other, allomantic pewter should enhance your endurance, balance, speed/reaction, strength to support the Plate's weight, and precision such that you can use the Plate better and for longer than someone else. Plate itself is highly Invested and so resists being Invested further, as evidenced in Oathbringer when Dalinar takes a Radiant's role in a vision: the Windrunner he is with states that Dalinar couldn't have been lashed with the armor on (Oathbringer, page 352).This might also mean that Dalinar himself could not have been lashed and then simply carried the unlashed armor, but maybe that's just due to efficiency-- expensive in Stormlight to carry something so heavy if you don't need to. Notably, the Windrunner himself is lashed while wearing his own Shardplate. The evidence that it otherwise interferes with Invested arts is very weak (as I understand it, at least). In RoW Ivory suggests to Jasnah that she use her Surgebinding powers because the Blade is less effective against the enemies (RoW, page 753), and Jasnah's considerations do not include additional vulnerability from dismissing her Plate despite being in the midst of enemy soldiers. More telling, she No suggestion that her armor would factor into any potential soulcasting of the stone, and then a successful soulcasting of air into oil while fully armored. So the evidence I'm aware of suggests that living Plate does not interfere with Surgebinding in any way. Dead Plate might draw Stormlight from an Invested wearer in order to repair itself (possibly evidenced by Kaladin using the helmet during his duel alongside Adolin in WoR). That would be interesting as little else inherently draws Investiture out of a person without their willing it to happen. But it also operates just fine when worn by uninvested people, including explicitly magical effects like being able to feel through the fingertips of the gauntlets or turn the visor transparent from the inside and mitigate lightning flash brightness. We (ostensibly, it's not 100% decisive but I think clear enough) see Renarin's futuresight operate while wearing dead Plate in WoR on page 1019, when he scrawls the end of the countdown on the wall of the Oathgate control building. Szeth is narrated as explicitly aware that he could not use lashings with dead Plate because the lashings would interfere with the gemstones that would power it (WoK, page 27), not because the lashings would not work. So I don't think that dead Plate itself interferes with Surgebinding either, at least not directly. It's all about the energy used to fuel Surgebinding or Plate not being available for the other task. I'm not aware of any clear comparisons between different people using Plate for similar tasks, so it's not obvious if Plate offers a specific level of strength or if it adds something on top of your normal strength, whatever that may be. Plate is inherently magical and so I think that it might be fair to compare it to pewter in this way. Pewter delivers similar strength to different allomancers with similar magical ability but is still related to their physical traits, as Ham suggested when Vin seemed to get "more" out of pewter than he did. You don't get more strength out of it unless you're a stronger allomancer, if we accept Ham's assessment, similar to how Vin was a better Seeker than she "should have" been because she had her native ability plus an appropriate hemalurgic spike. I don't think that duralumin plus pewter would add much to the Plate's function outside of whatever burst of speed you might be able to get from your pewter-enhanced muscles, but maybe I'm not being imaginative enough.

Too glib, this time. My question was "how do the Alethi operationally define vengeance in this case", which is key when you are suggesting that vengeance as the Alethi justification/reason/motivation for their war against the Parshendi is evidence that they are not pursuing wiping the Parshendi out. Put another way, why does claiming vengeance as their goal mean that they definitely aren't trying to kill all the Parshendi, even when maximum Parshendi casualties is the only Parshendi-related thing they ever do? You yourself marked vengeance out separately from the gemhearts in their reasoning, so vengeance doesn't equal gemhearts. So, what is vengeance to the Alethi here? The hitch is that they didn't make any efforts to do anything like that; only Dalinar mentions it (in WoR), and only years and years into the war, and most of the Alethi were surprised at the idea. Elhokar was responsive to the argument but it was clearly novel to him to imagine explicitly ending the war. The shift to focusing only on securing gemhearts is significant mostly in how it shows that the Alethi don't care so much about the vengeance, which in turn undermines it as reasoning or excuse. "Emotionally but not logically driven" doesn't work so well as an explanation when they spent years at the Shattered Plains and don't even care very much about the thing they're ostensibly there to do. The Vengeance Pact, in operation, had as step 1 was kill as many Parshendi as possible. There were no additional steps, as far as we know, including any imagining of how many Parshendi dead would be enough to count as vengeance and allow the war to end. This is what my request for you to define vengeance in this context was meant to clarify. The only Parshendi-related actions the Alethi took were to pursue maximum casualties, and as they had no other considerations or criteria I am not confident that the Alethi defined maximum as anything less than 100%. For what it's worth I don't think that the Alethi had a specific goal to wipe out the Parshendi people, and they were (unevenly) rallied to a different goal when Dalinar pushed for one. But incidental extinction, as a direct consequence of the Alethi war doctrine on the Plains, while applying maximum violence and with no efforts towards anything else is a lot closer to extermination than some other goal with ancillary killing. Prior to Dalinar receiving the Stormfather's visions "kill them all" was the only tactic, strategy, and objective the Alethi pursued. Slouching directly into extermination because they couldn't be bothered to think about what vengeance even means to them doesn't seem all that morally distinct from explicit goals of extermination to me. Though if the argument is that the Alethi were not specifically, explicitly seeking to eliminate the Parshendi people I think we're in agreement.

Let's leave aside the validity and morality of vengeance at all, or a war to achieve it. How do you define this operationally, as of WoK and WoR? Dalinar's speech about seeking a decisive victory during WoR seems to have shocked the Alethi. The idea of killing or capturing/executing the Parshendi leaders seemed to not be on their minds at all. You're right to point out that they were at that point entirely focused on gemhearts, changing the nature of the conflict, but the initial Vengeance Pact seems to have been mostly about "kill a whole lot of Parshendi" with no particular end state. Which can easily (maybe not necessarily) be the same as "kill them all", as not having any other end state in mind at least suggests.

Cosmere terminology can get fussy. Sazed and Rayse are not avatars, they are vessels-- they personally hold the Shards. Avatars are a different thing. Autonomy isn't unique in being able to create avatars, though it is probably unique in its enthusiasm for them. Wax was Harmony's sword before his experiments with Harmonium. I think so at least, I'm sure arguments can be made for some specific point at which he became that instead of just some guy. I don't think that his being a coinshot savant is related, though again there is probably an argument that they are related. Harmony saw Wax as having the characteristics which would make him a suitable agent for Harmony's designs and then cultivated him to actually fill that role. What we see from Alloy of Law through Lost Metal are largely Wax's activities in that mode. Maybe we're defining things differently from each other, though. What does a title or designation like "Harmony's sword" suggest to you?

I wonder how much of Wax's "employment" by Sazed involved any real transfer of Investiture, as opposed to ideological alignment and converging goals. My general impression of Wax and Sazed's relationship, and the concept of being a sword at all, was that it was mostly the latter two. Wax had a temperament and personality which were suitable to accomplish the things Sazed wanted accomplished even without direct control/guidance/constant interference, but was free of the internal conflict that prevented Sazed from acting on his own. Given that his inability to act seems pretty encompassing for Sazed, such that an independent sword (no, not that independent sword!) was necessary, I wonder if he even could from an avatar in the manner of Autonomy and Telsin. I also think that Wax was pretty used up, emotionally and psychologically, in his work for Sazed. That degradation is what led him to turn away from the role and, I personally think, one of the core elements which made him suitable to the task in the first place.

Welcome! You've come to the right place to indulge those interests. Who are your top characters that are comic relief/planet nudgers?

I think you're interpreting my ramblings correctly. Since Preservation and Ruin are fused together (they can't just spontaneously split, they're stably one thing which happens to have two distinct components) they either have some combined identity or they're separate but handcuffed together and have to learn to live with each other. The WoB stating that Sazed would drop Harmony if he died suggests to me that it tilts a little bit more towards the former but still has a substantial amount of the latter. Certainly the sixteen aspects weren't so distinct back when they were all a part of Adonalsium, since we know that Adonalsium could have been split into totally different Shards instead of the ones we know. That leads to my follow-up question of what the effects might be if Sazed were to be aligned better with one of Harmony's component's intent over the other. They're intermingled enough that it doesn't seem like the more poorly-aligned component can buck the vessel in the same way that Honor did with Tanavast, nor overwhelm the vessel as Ruin did with Ati or (to a perhaps lesser extent) Odium did with Rayse. That's the heart of my Ruin-dumping idea, though evidence for it is still scant. The idea of a Ruinous avatar forming, something that expresses ruin in the short term but might do the work to tear Ruin out of Harmony in the longer term, is also an intriguing idea. Circling around to the original post once again, maybe that's even Autonomy's angle (whether or not it is also Bavadins): the Shards shouldn't be stuck with human vessels that constantly impinge on what they fundamentally are. As for Honor developing a personality I was referring more to the comments Sanderson has made that enough Investiture, left unbound to a vessel for long enough, will start to develop its own sapience. WaT expressed that Honor had developed in that direction to at least some degree and for that reason, which was suggested as a wrinkle Taravangian might ultimately have to deal with.

We're all guessing, so your clips are worth at least as much as mine! I like the angle you bring up with the WoB, I think I get too wrapped up in the names the Shards carry. Now you've got me wondering about a Shard's own native disposition, the vessel's interpretation, and a sentient Shard's... combination of those, I guess? Independent Honor was a very tantalizing thing to tease at the end of WaT. I wonder if the fused Shards retain much of their original independence. We'll probably see more of Sazed's situation before we learn a lot more about Taravangian's. Do you think that Preservation and Ruin were subsumed in their combination? Might Honor's semi-independence complicate such a thing?

I'd be interested in more depth, but not simply more instances. We'll see what we get.

I don't think that Discord is any less stable of a Shardic inflection than Harmony, so I agree there. But to my mind the stagnation of the Elendel Basin (and Scadrial more broadly) is the lesser of the the two major, in-world elements of the slant towards Preservation: Sazed had hoped for steady progress, but made the initial state post-Catacendre too easy and abundant and so the opposite happened: things (like people and organizations) have been mired in sameness and sluggish to develop. That static state is now breaking down in ways Sazed seems not to want (the rise of the Set and their methods, Malwish hawkishness). I can see @Aliroz-The-Confused's perspective that the stagnation is the dumping of Preservation aspect into the world, especially as Sazed did not expect it (though it's not clear to me if it upsets him or just surprises him). The other, and greater, symptom of stagnation I see is Sazed's own desire to be and remain Harmony, along with his persistent inability to act. It's been clear for a while that Harmony isn't working, whatever the specific reasons, which led to a shift towards the end of that state as he transitions (or has transitioned) to Discord. That transition represents the ruin of Sazed's goal which he has tried to accomplish for centuries. Those ideas lead me back around to @Trusk'our's OP here. Whether or not Bavadin is meshing well with Autonomy, is Sazed well aligned with his Shard at this point? The advent of Discord might fit the pattern of Shards overwhelming their vessels, and the combined Shard's nature and preferences are still pretty mysterious to us. Maybe, even if Sazed isn't a better vessel for Autonomy than Bavadin, he might need another Shard to address his own problems. I can see that making the others nervous. In any case, if Sazed is a bad fit for the Preservation-Ruin Shard the consequences seem very rapid compared to others we've seen. The Shards we know for sure have had this problem held their powers and acted for millennia while Sazed has endured for only a few centuries. I kind of hope that isn't it. We've already had that play out at least three times we know of: Tanavast, Ati, and Rayse, along with a smattering of short-term Shardholders like Vin, Kelsier, and Dalinar. I'm not excited about central conflicts all being too similar and this one might be played out. Then again, there could be new and interesting angles which haven't ripened yet in the arc of Cosmere stories.

Interesting angles! I, too, like the idea of Sazed and Taravangian meeting and interacting. One of the key dimensions of that matchup is that the coming of Retribution undercuts one of Sazed's disadvantages, namely his lack of experience with his Shards. They are also unique as bearers of combined Shards and so comparing them will give us a lot more information on what issues are unique to each vessel, which are due to mismatches/synergies between specific Shards forced together, and which are more functions of bearing two Shards at all. Sazed's inability to act as he'd like due to his Shards' uneasy balance would also provide an interesting contrast to Taravangian's attitude that he is forced to act even outside of his self-styled theme of retribution. On the other hand I don't think that Bavadin is necessarily aligned poorly with Autonomy's Intent. I can see why people feel that she is overbearing, but I see her current state as more about maintaining her own independence above all others-- she needs to be the most autonomous. "A dual-Shard-bearing vessel forces me to plan in ways that account for the danger they pose to me, which limits my freedom to act as I want to, therefore Sazed needs to be dealt with; he's consuming my own autonomy, which is my very essence and nature!". Even the activities that suggest she is controlling others might be viewed in a similar context, sort of like the old question of if a free person can be permitted to choose to be a slave. Which is more free, a restriction on choosing to be a slave (preserving your autonomy from a situation in which you have less of it, even if you choose it) or having the freedom to make a choice that obviates your future freedoms? Whether you are moved by that argument or not, Autonomy isn't the same as independence, nor is it the same as having unlimited options. If I'm in a McDonald's restaurant, I'm not any less autonomous because I can only choose from the menu items McDonald's sells instead of a Whopper or a sub sandwich or spaghetti. Despite what the TLM quote suggests, I've never felt that Autonomy (the Shard) was particularly associated with individualism, although I appreciate why people tend to read that into it. I'm definitely open to the idea that Bavadin isn't fitting well with Autonomy, but also concerned about concluding that she is because a particular inflection of autonomy is unpalatable to us. I have theorized that some of Sazed's issues have come from emphasizing the Preservation-aspects of his Shard and then "dumping" the Ruinous aspects in unsustainable ways. Your post has made me wonder if some of Autonomy's creation of avatars might serve a similar purpose: she's "dumping" more mainline autonomous stuff in order to offset/relieve pressure from her less well-aligned behaviors.

I've always thought that the enhanced reflexes aspect of Plate is another feature of the powered-armor style amplification. Like, the Plate perfectly responds to motion of the body inside of it but lends its own power (strength, speed) to the motion. So the enhanced reflexes are just the Plate adding speed and responsiveness to an otherwise normal reflex action. If someone throws a rock at my face, and I'm not in Plate, my movement might not be fast enough to get my hand in place to catch it. But if I am wearing Plate then the armor amplifies the speed of my arm and hand motion, possibly getting in position in time. The feeling of energy I read as being more psychological, like how some people feel powerful when driving a big truck or holding a weapon. Maybe I'm mistaken on these, though. I'd also imagined that the ability to move in Plate is related to the magic of the Plate, amplifying strength in the same way. As evidence, I submit Adolin's paired disadvantaged duel in WoR. Even when the Plate is completely drained of Stormlight (so, no magic to transfer to its wearer nor power the Plate itself), the fighters can still move, though with great difficulty. We know that dead Plate has to be put on from the boots up, so that the lower parts can bear the weight of the parts above, so taking a step only requires the wearer to lift the weight of one leg at a time (the rest of the weight is borne by the remaining armor on the leg still on the ground). What the magic does is allow the amplification of motion and, possibly, force. In contrast, Renarin and Moash don't seem to have any extra ability to manage their Plate when they first wear it, suggesting that they do not have pewter-like enhancements. Of course it's also possible that they do but are still not skilled enough to handle Plate's power. Edited correction (the post has already been quoted, so I won't change the original contents): When the Plate is fully drained it's essentially impossible to move in, as was the case when Adolin's Plate was fully drained and it locked up. I don't know that this is because it's too heavy or if it's because the Plate itself resists motion. But when one of the opponents had his breastplate broken he could still move, though it was very difficult for him. I read that as the loss of the breastplate interrupting the continuous transfer of weight from the head, shoulders, and arms through the breastplate and into the leg armor but now I'm not as sure.

This is probably what happened with the descendants that we already know exist, but even less involved. Given how he ruled, I think it very unlikely that the Lord Ruler (in that mode or as Rashek pre-ascension) would acknowledge his offspring after the ascension. Even though the Lord Ruler's control of information was very tight I don't think that there would even be records of this in the first place. He wouldn't have much use for official descendants given that he intended to rule forever. I don't think that Spook is meaningfully related to Rashek, however. It's not that it's impossible or anything, I just don't see much reason to think that he would be nor what the significance would be. Being tall isn't very strong evidence on its own, and everything about him post-Catacendre I would probably attribute to Sazed. I am curious about what effects, if any, holding a Shard (even temporarily) would have on the vessel's descendants. The effects of having burned lerasium were pretty meaningful over generations. I wonder what a closer relationship with the Lord Ruler might involve, Spook or otherwise. Stronger allomantic potential, more investiture, latent Feruchemy?

Rashek gave his strongest supporters lerasium after his ascension, and they were the original high nobility and the first mistborn/allomancers (as we know them, allomancy existed but worked differently before this event). Presumably Rashek's descendants would also be likely to be powerful allomancers for the same reasons, but the original nobility and (modern-style) allomancers did not have any relation to Rashek beyond him favoring them.

Lol, thanks! They're just my thoughts, I'm sure others will chime in with corrections soon. Welcome to the Shard!