Crossen

I did a re-read of the Spiritual Realm chapters and have come to a re-contextualization from what I thought I read before. Especially from this quote from chapter 44: So if someone takes the place of a Herald in a spiritual realm vision then they would appear like their current day depictions since that is what the person would remember them looking like. You can see this from Dalinar's instant recognition of Rlain as Pailiah: How could he instantly recognize the "real" her if he never saw the real her anyway? Navani took her place in the only previous vision she was in. In every vision someone has taken Pailiah's place, so either we see a lightweaving of what they think she looks like or of Navani taking her place. So from this we cannot say that Aesudan is not Pailiah because they never saw the real Pailiah in the visions. After confirming this and the addition that Battar was visiting Aesudan, I am convinced now more than ever that Aesudan is Pailiah.

I think Nohadon is Adonalsium's vessel essentially, or something like it. He wanted to learn and to grow and could not do that without experiencing the lives of everyday people. I think Adonalsium essentially let himself be shattered. Nahadon seems to have too much power to be anything short of a Shard. It fits in with a lot of the religion/lore around Adonalsium/The One/ Tsa and the 3 moons and the Way of King epigraphs in this book.

I am increasingly starting to believe that Valor (and her perpendicularity) are hidden in the ocean near the origin on Roshar.

Brandon has a certain way about talking about the power of Shards. He tends to state the Shard then give in world examples of the power. For example here is when Dalinar picks up Honor: We know from the day 5 interludes that Endowment and Valor seem to be working together. It seems that Valor may have intervened, along-side Nightblood (a creation from Endowment's power), to give Taravangian the strength to kill Rayse:

Same for Aesudan. I have posted about her before being a Herald, but now I think that that is highly unlikely since Dalinar and Navani would have recognized her in the visions. I do still think that she was a part of one of the conspiracy groups, however (especially with young Gav mentioning than Battar would visit Aesudan in Kolinar).

MAJOR WHEEL OF TIME SPOILERS

Any chance that it was actually Cultivation and not Honor that became Nohadon? She is a shape shifting Dragon after all. This could also explain how the Nohadon visions are not seen by the Stormfather; because they are given to Dalinar by Cultivation. The Moon God Mishim that gets switched is also mentioned as being green, Cultivation's color. Cultivation being Nohadon also adds some sly context to the discussion between Cultivation and Taravangian in I-2 where he chides her for not doing anything to help Roshar govern better, but she actually wrote the book on it.

This excerpt from the in-world TWOK is very telling, especially the second paragraph since it echos the thought from I-2 where they can try to guide the world, but not act directly or open themselves up to attack.

I think this could fit into the conversation that Cultivation and Taravangian have in I-2 about creating systems that would lead to peace. This was pretty much Nohadon's MO. But would this be "acting directly" which is forbidden to the Shards? Maybe that opened up Tanavast to attack.

I think you are exactly right. I have been meaning to write a post that ties everything with Szeth all together: that he is the child champion and that the duel ends up in either a loss or a tie with the Stormfather either dying or becoming incapacitated due to the results of the duel (and thus no more easy access to Stormlight). I had an old post on this that I will quote below, but over my re-read I did find some more foreshadowing that would suggest that Szeth can be considered a child for the child champion theory tie in. TWOK I-3: TWOK I-6: ROW 85: My earlier post with some more info: Szeth and Kaladin may confront this Unmade when they are in Shinovar. A child is also mentioned in another deathrattle: The only three people that I think are strongly tied to their homeland are Dalinar, Szeth and the Stormfather. I think that this does not refer to the Stormfather so I will skip him (even though he does seem like a baby sometimes). Both Alethkar and Shinovar have mountains nearby, but Shinovar does have a lot more of them. Szeth is also more likely to be on top of the mountains since he can fly. Also his birthplace is the Valley of Truth, a place that sounds like it could be prone to a flood. This would lead me to believe that Szeth is the child in this deathrattle: And that they will choose to not kill him. Also an interesting bit of foreshadowing if this is true: I also think it is funny that they only thing that has been retconned in the books is the taking back that Kaladin killed Szeth in WOR and making it a psuedo-suicide instead. If my theory is correct then the pre-retcon story would not make sense because why would Kaladin be allowed to kill Szeth before in WOR but they cannot now? That question gets eliminated with the retcon. Here are the deathrattles that suggest that the Stormfather will be deadeyed as a result of them not being able to kill Szeth and will no longer be able to grant Stormlight. I was planning to write more but that is kind of off topic for this thread.

Random thought, but is it possible that Dai-Gonarthis is not actually an Unmade (they could possibly be one of the "traitor" sleepless that went on the betray Aimia I think), and we don't know who the final Unmade truly is? Hessi's Mythica really casts some doubt on Dai-Gonarthis being the 9th. Also, as it currently stands there are 15 sub-names for the Unmade (Ba-Ado-Mishram = 3, Dai-Gonarthis = 2, etc.), where I think 16 would be more appropriate. Rereading the epigraph makes me think that possibly a sleepless is involved.

Does anyone think that the mysterious voice is one of the Unmade, most likely Dai-gonarthis? This is probably one of the voices that has made the Heralds go mad, along with Dalinar and Szeth. Probably also a candidate for the Stormfaker. Note that Dai-gonarthis was said to be involved in the scouring of Aimia, which could put them close to Shinovar. Could this also be the blue/black wind/smoke in the SA5 concept art? To me their objective could be tricking someone into being Odium's champion (Szeth most likely). Here is an excerpt from Oathbringer, Chapter 88 that may be relevant:

I have read the entire cosmere, including sample chapters, so I don't mind spoilers. Note that the Iriali believe that the Spiritual Realm and the Beyond are the same thing, so they probably at least tangentially related. I think that the Spiritual Realm is somewhat like a blackhole and the Beyond is within the event horizon; an area where nothing can escape. After looking into it further it seems like the official map of the sea of souls suggests that the "sun" is in the direction of Rall Elorim. Also has the "sun" only been seen from the Rosharan and Scadrian subastrals? They are next to each other in the official cosmere constellation map. Regardless, it could be possible that it is located in the Rosharan subastral, but can be seen from anywhere.

My theory is that Kelek and co. used the oathgate in Rall Elorim to go to shadesmar and created a "rip" to the spiritual realm there and tossed Ba-Ado-Mishram inside. Possibly creating this rip was possible because Honor helped him in their last moments or that was the location he was dying which created a weakness in the fabric between realms. Could it be that the shadows in the cognitive realm act the way they do because of the "pull" to the spiritual realm? Dow we have any idea in which direction the "sun" actually is on the horizon in the cognitive realm or the location where Honor died?

Could the shimmer face Stormfather be a voidspren? From the Coppermind Ulim page: Also in RoW at the end of Chapter 77 Ulim speaks to Venli through her mind, confirming that they have that capability.

Note that this is on the balcony right outside his chambers. The fabrial could possibly extend that far. The last bit of dialog on the balcony with the Stormfather does make more sense if Thaidakar does the talking instead of the Stormfather. The only thing that does not quite fit is the shimmer face Stormfather knowing about the Herald dying. Maybe a Herald is controlling the face somehow? The most common theory has been Ishar, but I was more under the impression that Ishar does not want the Voidbringers to return while the shimmer face Stormfather seems to be in the bring back the Voidbringers camp. The Ghostbloods are in the bring the Voidbringers back camp since we clearly see Axindweth working towards that goal. Edit: Maybe Hoid wants to bring back the Voidbringers? He kind of needed them to come back to bond a spren. The "greatest fool" quote also really applies to Hoid.

I read the chapter again. Did anyone notice that the Stormfather only appears as a shimmering face when Gavilar is in his chambers? Gavilar starts out in Navani's study, but after the break after talking to her he moves to his own chambers. Curiously, while he is in his chambers he talks about one of the new heating fabrials that Rushur Kris delivered to him. Could this be what is manifesting and faking the Stormfather face and voice to Gavilar? it also talks about how the face looks like heat: The shimmering face also says things that are way out of line for the Stormfather: Also interesting is that this fabrial is focused on in the RoW prologue also: Could the flower be the Ghostblood's symbol? It also looks like Aesudan is in on it and whisks Navani away before she can get a close look at the box. The fabrial is also brought up in the OB prologue. Thoughts?

Does anyone think that maybe when Honor "died" and gave part of his power to the Stormfather that Honor really sort of mind-merged with the Stormfather instead, maybe accidentally? (Maybe like a Voldemort/Professor Quirrell situation or the famous LTT example from WoT). The Stormfather just wants to be a storm and not worry about performing his other duties while the Honor side of him is forcing him to do things like Bond and show Dalinar the visions. This back and forth between the two personalities is what is shown in this chapter. I went back and read the Dalinar visiting the Nightwatcher chapter in OB and noticed that when the Nightwatcher spoke it was in italics, but when Cultivation spoke it was all caps. Maybe this is the hint between who is talking between the Stormfather/Honor. Also reading that chapter again made me think of if maybe Honor/Stormfather visited the Nightwatch/Cultivation and got a boon and curse. Through this maybe Cultivation helped to "kill" Honor with Odium (Odium thinks that he died: "We killed you!"), but his merging with the Stormfather allows him to grow out of his obsession with honor and oaths.

I think I have a new point from the prologue that I didn't see mentioned here. When Gavilar tells the Stormfather to watch the door for him, the Stormfather rebukes him. But then later tells him about the visitor at the door anyway. ... It seems like the Stormfather that rebukes Gavilar is not the same as the one that watches the door for him. I also noticed some continuity errors when going back to read the Oathbringer prologue from Eshonai's POV that may be evidence that Brandon wants to add hints to the Stormfather acting weird: In the SA5 prologue Gavilar is with 6 people total: Amaram, Amaram's lueitenant, and 4 people new to the Son's of Honor (one later is revealed to be Taravangian and my personal theory is that one of the females is Dova aka Battar). In the OB prologue Gavilar is with 5 people total. Also in the SA5 prologue the Stormfather points Gavilar to Eshonai at the door, while in OB she is pointed out by one of Gavilar's female guests. I figure that if Brandon did not want to hone in on this moment to showcase the Stormfather acting unusual (like the Navani meeting in the SA 5 prologue) then he would have just glossed over it instead of writing the same scene from different perspectives.

I've always had this personal theory that Captain Tozbek was associated with or partially under the employ of the Ghostbloods. When we first meet Captain Tozbek he has a scar on his face, supposedly from fishing tackle. I think that this is a lie and either he got smacked into submission by the Ghostbloods or he is a Sleepless (more on this below), or both. Captain Tozbek says that he is indebted to House Davar and that he will charter his ship to Shallan for a vastly lower price. Since Shallan's father is associated with the Ghostbloods, it would not be a stretch to assume that those he associates with are under the employ of the Ghostbloods also. Plus is makes it easy to not make any money from chartering Shallan if the Ghostbloods are paying the tab. He probably also broke the latch on his own cabin and let Jasnah stay there so it was easier to ambush her. Tozbek as a Sleepless: After Shallan lands on shore she notices a bunch of cremlings, possibly the remnants of Tozbek. Also of note, Shallan notices fearspren coming out of the sand around her, but she specifically is mentioned to not feel afraid. These fearspren could actually be coming from the remnants of Tozbek. Plus it seems like every ship on Roshar has a Sleepless to keep them away from Aimia.

Liss is much more likely to be Vedel. Liss has a description of having long dark hair and being "plump". If you look at the Vedel endpage then she certainly fits that description.

That was semi-retracted by Brandon. https://wob.coppermind.net/entry/11521 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/367-skyward-release-party/#e11589 Also there is no visual source for that WoB. As it is supposedly from a signed book that was never posted. The Herald close to Taravagian is now nearly confirmed to be Battar under the alias Dova.

Aesudan is Pailiah. Evidence: Their appearances look very similar, especially when comparing their Coppermind pictures. Pailiah's attributes are Learned and Giving. Aesudan seems to portray the exact opposite attributes, which is in line with the similar moral corruption of the other Heralds. She was present at the feast the night of Galivar's death, like most of the other Herald's. Very little it known about her past or how she got her high standing. Jasnah backed out on having Liss assassinate her. It would be a clever twist of fate if Jasnah ended up asking a Herald to assassinate another Herald (the common theory is that Liss is Vedel). At the end of Oathbringer she hints that she knew of Gavilar's grand plans, or at least knows a lot more than Elhokar. She seems to know a lot more about the Unmade than just a normal person. WoR I-12 - Lahn : The Aesudan Chapter The top chapter icon is Pailiah Queen Aesudan's ardent featured in the chapter is named Pai, very similar to Pailiah. It is mentioned that Aesudan thinks that the Almighty isn't pleased with her. I doubt Honor was pleased with the Heralds. "She's the Almighty's chosen". Clever choice of words. Two chapters later Taravangian swears by Pailiah's mind. Thoughts? EDIT: As a second theory I have just been thinking what Aesudan has been up to as a Herald. One lingering question has been who has stolen Taln's Honorblade? Since Taln loses his blade between Kholinar and the Shattered Plains, Aesudan (as Pailiah) would be the first person with the motive, means and opportunity to take the Honorblade.

Ah yes that is a very interesting thought. I think Taravangian fits very well within the child metaphor of the deathrattles if he is having one of his emotional days. And he is certainly very associated with his homeland. Has it been confirmed that we still has the smart/emotional days after becoming Odium? I'll look more into this today. Plus we have seen strong foreshadowing with Dalinar imprisoning Taravangian instead of killing him when his betrayal was discovered.