Phlipz1 Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 We are all aware odium has splinteded at least 3 shards (ambition, devotion, dominion) and didn't pick them up because he didn't want to corrupt his own? What id like to ask is what would the combined shard of odium, devotion, dominion and ambition be called? In this scenario he still killed those 3 but chose to take up the shards anyway, ignoring the 'no corruption' but he had originally Lemme know your thoughts!
Quantus he/him Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 Hypothetically speaking: Ambition + Dominion = Imperialist/Conqueror + Dominion = Fanatic + Odium = THE SPANISH INQUISITION!! 13
Benkinsky they/them Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 I did not expect the Spanish Inquisition in all seriousness, if Honor + Odium would make War, I think Odium + Dominion, especially + Ambition would make something like Conquest. Devotion is just the added bonus that makes them care about the conquered lands afterwards 6
Phlipz1 Posted September 28, 2021 Author Posted September 28, 2021 Jeez I didn't expect the Spanish inquisition either. Than again, no one expects the Spanish inquisition 2
mathiau he/him Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Benkinsky said: in all seriousness, if Honor + Odium would make War, I think Odium + Dominion, especially + Ambition would make something like Conquest. Devotion is just the added bonus that makes them care about the conquered lands afterwards Dominion is already Conquest actually Quote Questioner I wanted to know why in The Stormlight Archive and Mistborn, all the gods were named after human traits? Brandon Sanderson So this is... all the books are connected. So a long time ago, the premise is, a being... god named Adonalsium was split into 16 pieces, and so the various "aspects" of god, and those aspects are now the gods of all of these things. So there were two in the Elantris world, there's one in the Warbreaker world. Mostly Mistborn and Stormlight is where you'll find out about them. Questioner Preservation, and... I remember Hatred [Odium] in Stormlight. Brandon Sanderson Yep, Preservation and Ruin. And on Sel, it was Dominion and Devotion, or Love and Conquest were the two. Questioner So all of them are connected? Brandon Sanderson Yep. Tel Aviv Signing (Oct. 18, 2019) Also Honour+Odium isn't War. Fusing Honour and Odium can give War but there are other possibilities. Mistborn Era 2 + WoBs Spoiler Just like Preservation+Ruin can give both Discord and Harmony 2
HSuperLee Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 Odium + Devotion = Frenzy (in the idea of overwhelming passion and emotion that overpowers every other sensation and experience) Frenzy + Dominion = Chaos Chaos + Ambition = Pandemonium Not quite Ruin, but something close. The desire to cause the entire world to be just as mad as you are. Basically, you'd have the Joker, but as a Shard. 1
Zoey she/her Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 2 hours ago, HSuperLee said: Odium + Devotion = Frenzy (in the idea of overwhelming passion and emotion that overpowers every other sensation and experience) Frenzy + Dominion = Chaos Chaos + Ambition = Pandemonium Not quite Ruin, but something close. The desire to cause the entire world to be just as mad as you are. Basically, you'd have the Joker, but as a Shard. I don't think Frenzy + Dominion is Chaos. Chaos implies a lack of rule, but adding Dominion should give something more organized. Maybe Tyranny or Madness. 2
Crylorenzo he/him Posted September 29, 2021 Posted September 29, 2021 From the WoB that Devotion is Love, could Devotion actually be Odium's opposite like Ruin and Preservation were opposites? I'd imagines there was or is ruinlight and preservationlight that would be each other's opposities. Right now we say voidlight and anti-voidlight, but could it just be voidlight and devotionlight (lovelight)?
Frustration Posted September 29, 2021 Posted September 29, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Crylorenzo said: From the WoB that Devotion is Love, could Devotion actually be Odium's opposite like Ruin and Preservation were opposites? I'd imagines there was or is ruinlight and preservationlight that would be each other's opposities. Right now we say voidlight and anti-voidlight, but could it just be voidlight and devotionlight (lovelight)? Not likely, Ruin and Preservation aren't natural opposites, they just adjusted to be more oppsed due to their vessels opposition to each other. Edited September 29, 2021 by Frustration
Quantus he/him Posted September 29, 2021 Posted September 29, 2021 49 minutes ago, Frustration said: Not likely, Ruin and Preservation aren't natural opposites, they just adjusted to be more oppsed due to their vessels opposition to each other. I think you may be conflating WOBs on that. The vessel's influence is what made them associated with White and Black, but they are specifically intended to be "Complimentary Opposites" Quote Argent (paraphrased) Ruin and Preservation were often represented in the Mistborn trilogy in terms of black and white. Is this imagery limited to that series, or do other Shards also have an associated hue? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) This (Ruin & Preservation's colors) was because of the specific world and their perception of the world and themselves. Essentially, because of the dynamics of the interplay between Ruin and Preservation, they "chose" to view themselves as black and white respectively, so that's how they were represented. Also, because the only two Shards on Scadrial, and their natures were opposites, after the long period of time they spent on the same planet, they kind of "polarized." If similar thing happened on another world, similar coloring effect could happen. Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013) Quote kilomtrs So in the trilogy, we see that when someone has a Hemalurgic spike implanted in them, they can hear Ruin talking to them, both as a vision and in their head. However, we learn in the Hero of Ages that Ruin cannot hear a person's thoughts no matter how much under Ruin's influence they are. In Alloy of Law, we see that Wax (and other Pathians) uses an earring to "pray" to Harmony, and we see that Harmony can hear his thoughts and respond. So I guess this leads to three questions: How does Harmony hear the thoughts of Wax, when it's explicitly pointed put that Ruin cannot? Are the earrings that the Pathians use Hemalurgically charged, as otherwise they would be of no use to Ruin, and therefore Harmony? Or did Harmony completely change how that aspect of Hemalugy works? Brandon Sanderson How this all works dates back to the original design of the magic system. I wanted Ruin and Preservation to be complementary opposites, like many things in the Mistborn world. Allomancy, for example, has Pushes and Pulls were are less "negate one another" opposites, but instead two sides to the same proverbial coin. Ruin is invasive. The power is more "Yell" than "Listen." The philosopher would probably have some interesting things to say about the masculine symbolism of Hemalurgy and its spikes. Ruin can insert thoughts. That power, however, can't HEAR the reactions. It's about invasion. Preservation, however, is the opposite. Preservation listens, Preservation protects. (Perhaps to a fault--if there were no Ruin, there would be no change to the world, and life could not exist.) Because of this, Preservation can hear what is inside people's minds. It cannot, however, INSERT thoughts. (This is important to the plot of Hero of Ages.) Harmony is both, the two complementary opposites combined. And so, he inserts thoughts with Ruin and still uses Hemalurgy. He can also listen. Yes, Wax's earring is Invested. (Or, in other terms, it's a Hemalurgic spike.) bettse Doesn't that imply it was shoved through someone's heart at one point (ala Steel Inquisitor creation process)? Brandon Sanderson Yes, the metal would have to have been part of a spike that at one point was used to kill someone and rip off a piece of their soul. General Reddit 2012 (July 4, 2012) Quote Chaos (paraphrased) Are Shards all paired? Does Endowment have a counterpart? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) RAFO. Also, yes and no. Not all Shards have perfect counterparts like Ruin and Preservation. Questioner (paraphrased) Why were Ruin and Preservation linked together? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Because they're such perfect opposites. Basically it's just an opposites attract thing. Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)
mathiau he/him Posted September 29, 2021 Posted September 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Crylorenzo said: From the WoB that Devotion is Love, could Devotion actually be Odium's opposite like Ruin and Preservation were opposites? I'd imagines there was or is ruinlight and preservationlight that would be each other's opposities. Right now we say voidlight and anti-voidlight, but could it just be voidlight and devotionlight (lovelight)? There's no chances the Rhythms of Odium and Devotion sound the same, same for Preservation and Ruin. 53 minutes ago, Quantus said: I think you may be conflating WOBs on that. The vessel's influence is what made them associated with White and Black, but they are specifically intended to be "Complimentary Opposites" Opposite, but not inverses. True Stasis can only be archived by removing every way something can change, and making entropy go to an absolute maximum will do just that.
Brgst13 Posted September 29, 2021 Posted September 29, 2021 Odium + Ambition = Vengeance Vengeance + Devotion = Obsession Obsession + Dominion = Tyranny
Crylorenzo he/him Posted September 30, 2021 Posted September 30, 2021 9 hours ago, mathiau said: There's no chances the Rhythms of Odium and Devotion sound the same, same for Preservation and Ruin. Odium and Devotion being opposites is certainly a longshot, but I don't think Preservation and Ruin being opposites is a stretch at all, or, at least, the details of them match our current knowledge of a light and its opposite: when Vin is spiked, the mists are repelled by her, Ettmetal is highly volatile and it takes very little for it to explode, and while Harmony's current vessel knows how to put them together in harmony, it seems apparent that they could just as easily be Discord, which fits the description of an anti-light as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a very unique circumstance. Being so long together, it could be that their Rhythms synced up even while opposites. Though, as others have said, it could be that it's not the case either and I wouldn't be surprised by that either. It's just an idea and one that has some evidence in favor.
Elegy he/him Posted September 30, 2021 Posted September 30, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Crylorenzo said: Odium and Devotion being opposites is certainly a longshot It really isn't, according to Brandon: Quote Jason Paas Are Odium and Devotion opposites? Brandon Sanderson One could make that argument. General Twitter 2016 (Feb. 1, 2016) But they aren't really complimentary, since they are both different interpretations of the same thing, passion. Ruin and Preservation represent the complete lack of each other's concepts. So I think Odium and Devotion are more comparable to Cultivation and Ruin, both representing change, but pulled towards opposite directions, growth and decay. Brandon put it this way: Quote Brandon Sanderson Technically, Ruin would be most compatible with Cultivation. General Reddit 2013 (March 14, 2013) So, going off this, I think Odium and Devotion would go very well with each other, plausibly as Passion. (The thing that Odium claims to be but is only a part of. After all, there is no way Adonalsium's passion would be only a sixteenth of their whole power, is there?) Dominion and Ambition could add up as something like Megalomania. But I have no idea what a combination of Megalomania and Passion would be called Edited September 30, 2021 by Elegy 1
Philomath she/her Posted October 6, 2021 Posted October 6, 2021 So I think the order they would be absorbed would matter. You could end up with different things if you combine in a different order. Odium first killed Devotion and Dominion. I think Devotion+Dominion= Zeal. If we say Odium killed them and pulled them to the cognitive realm like is canon, but then changed his mind to take them, I could see an argument for Devotion and Dominion combining first. So then we get to Zeal+Odium= ??? Okay, while trying to put my thoughts together for this I just came across the definition of Bigot: “a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance” So now I’m thinking Odium+Devotion= Bigotry Bigotry+Dominion= Supremacy Supremacy+Ambition= ??? I’d have to think a bit on this.
Szeth Pancakes he/they Posted October 8, 2021 Posted October 8, 2021 On 9/29/2021 at 4:42 PM, Brgst13 said: Obsession + Dominion = Tyranny To be pedantic, no. That’s not what Tyranny means. It means that you rule outside of any structural government or laws, not that you’re a power-hungry maniac (though that Venn diagram has quite a bit of overlap). As @Elegy said, Megalomania might be a better term for this, though it is a bit of a mouthful.
LewsTherinTelescope Posted October 8, 2021 Posted October 8, 2021 I've moved this topic to the Cosmere board, because the question can't really be answered well with Stormlight information alone (and definitely did not stay such in the comments).
Olmund Posted October 8, 2021 Posted October 8, 2021 (edited) On 9/28/2021 at 9:44 AM, mathiau said: Also Honour+Odium isn't War. Fusing Honour and Odium can give War but there are other possibilities. Mistborn Era 2 + WoBs Hide contents Just like Preservation+Ruin can give both Discord and Harmony Yeah, I see Warlight and the Rhythm of War as something that isn't really comparable with obtaining a dual (or multi) shard -- you could argue it's more solid since Raboniel understood it as "the Rhythm of War" instinctually, but I think it's been colored by the past (and ongoing) struggle between Honor and Odium. I see it in a similar way to the "storm" prefix of "stormlight" -- Honor invested a lot of himself into the high storm, and both Honor and Odium invested a great deal in the war between the two of them. You could make the argument that war is a natural product of combined Honor (laws) and Odium (hatred), and I guess I could see someone taking up both shards and becoming "War" -- but I think a more natural combination of those attributes would be something like Indignation or Vengeance (implying an honor-based wrath). Edited October 8, 2021 by Olmund
Lunu’anaki he/him Posted October 9, 2021 Posted October 9, 2021 On 10/5/2021 at 10:23 PM, Philomath said: Supremacy+Ambition= ??? I’d have to think a bit on this. Sounds like Fascism. On 9/30/2021 at 7:16 AM, Elegy said: But I have no idea what a combination of Megalomania and Passion would be called Honestly, I feel like it would only truly be megalomania once passion was added into the mix. To be obsessed with power I feel like one would need to be passionate about said power.
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