+mdross81 he/him Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 In Oathbringer, we learned from Notum that Honor created the honorspren himself "many thousands of years ago." We also learned that, sometime before his death, Honor stopped making honorspren, and tasked the Stormfather with doing it instead. Now, with Syl's interlude in RoW, we get a just a little bit more detail on when true spren were created: Quote Honorspren – all of the intelligent spren – were something new to Roshar. Well, new as in ten-thousand-years-old new. So … newer. How had the first honorspren – or cultivationspren, or inkspren, or peakspren, or any of the other intelligent ones – been created? Had they been shaped from raw Investiture by Honor himself? Had they grown out of these, their cousins? She felt so much kinship with them, though they were clearly different. Not as smart. Could she help them become smart? (I note that both Notum and Syl only mention Honor when talking about the creation of true spren, but given that that all of the true spren are mixes of Honor and Cultivation, it seems likely that Cultivation had some role in their creation as well) Assuming that Syl is correct, that means that the creation of true spren likely predated the arrival of humans on Roshar. I hadn't really spent a lot of time thinking about why Honor and Cultivation created intelligent spren, but I guess before this line from Syl I had kind of assumed that their creation was tied to the arrival of humans. If that's not the case, then why were they created? I was pondering this when I came across and reread this old WOB: Quote sufficientlyadvanced It says that it's dangerous to travel to Shadesmar on Sel. Why? Brandon Sanderson It has to do with the Dor and the lack of an entity controlling much of the power Odium left in his wake on Sel. Phantine Woah, that's interesting. I had no idea Odium left little bits of his power on Sel... I guess it kinda makes sense for evil monks to be powered by pure hate, though. Brandon Sanderson Odium did not leave his power behind, one should note. He left several other powers which are now, to a large extent, mindless... Windrunner If you wouldn't mind answering, does Roshar have a similar problem, with Honor being Splintered? Brandon Sanderson No, Roshar does not have the same problem. There are some differences going on. (One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The seons and the skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function. Though, of course, that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous. It's one reason everyone should be thankful Kelsier was around on Scadrial. General Reddit 2013 (March 11, 2013) The lines talking about how it's dangerous to have power lying around without an entity to control it, and how it was a good thing Kelsier was around on Scadrial jumped out at me. Is it possible that, after seeing what had happened on Sel, Honor and Cultivation created intelligent spren to ensure that at least some of their power was tied to sapient cognitive entities as a safeguard in case Odium came for them? Perhaps they created true spren with an eye toward ensuring that whatever he and Cultivation did to bind Odium to Braize would continue to function? Or perhaps it was done in the hopes that it would be possible for someone to take up or reforge the Shard of Honor in the event of his Splintering? Odium flat out tells us in Oathbringer that the Splinters of Honor left behind pose a problem for him: Quote “A man cannot serve two gods at once, Dalinar,” Odium said. “And so, I cannot leave her behind. In fact, I cannot leave behind the Splinters of Honor, as I once thought I could. I can already see that going wrong. Once you release me, my transformation of this realm will be substantial.” I presume that Odium's primary concern is someone else taking up the Shard of Honor and that he sees the Splinters left behind as a possible conduit to that happening. So, maybe that was the plan - create intelligent spren to avoid a situation where you had raw Investiture rampaging like on Sel. It would explain why Tanavast wanted to pass the responsibility for creating honorspren to the Stormfather before his death. Could also be part of the meaning of the encouragement to "Unite them" in the visions he created. Interested to hear others' thoughts. 2
apepi Posted March 1, 2021 Posted March 1, 2021 I have always considered truespren somewhat to be equivalents to perhaps the god metals, they all (could)have them. There could possibly be spren attuned to Ruin or Harmony/etc. And the spren were already there, it might be easy to take a little investiture and turn it into something useful to you, instead of creating something new. They are also considered servants of them, a shard gotta have their servants to do their bidding. Though...I wonder if it is a choice? It seems to be the case to be, as it appears that shards can choose to change their own metals if they wish?
LewsTherinTelescope Posted March 1, 2021 Posted March 1, 2021 21 minutes ago, apepi said: as it appears that shards can choose to change their own metals if they wish Wait, they can?
apepi Posted March 1, 2021 Posted March 1, 2021 1 minute ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: Wait, they can? Well...I am not sure if it is an intentional change, but it does happen.
LewsTherinTelescope Posted March 1, 2021 Posted March 1, 2021 1 minute ago, apepi said: Well...I am not sure if it is an intentional change, but it does happen. Ah, yeah, I had seen that, but I don't think it implies they can choose to do so.
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