Bondsmith Personalities and Potential Candidates

[Karger he/him]

We all know(those of us who read OB at least) that there are three bondsmiths.  Each bondsmith bonds one of the three great spren of roshar.  These bonsmiths are in many way the most powerful of the radiants and seem to be leaders among them most of the time.  While as far as we know all surges powers and abilities of the three are the same(this is subject to dispute but I am going with what we actually know) all three are bonding different spren.  The three spren seem to have very different personalities and look for very different things in their bondmates.  With that knowledge we can postulate several things about them as well as maybe what kind of bondsmiths we are getting in the future.

The "godspren" we know most about is of course the stormfather.  The stormfather is the spren that sends the highstorms the most powerful and important ecological future of roshar.  If we had an analog on earth we would probably consider him something akin to Gaia, the voice of and regulator of an entire world.  He is a very forceful individual.  He is understandably not notable for subtly.  He is very regular in his patterns to the point where rosharans can accurately predict highstorms without satellite data or computers.  His final duty seems to involve overseeing the spren bonds that almost the entirety of the worlds ecology as well as singer forms depend on(he oversees radiant bonds too but that might be a left over task of honor).  His abilities and duties from honor are less defined so we won't go into them right now but it seems clear that the stormfather is attracted to individuals who are like him forceful, regulated, and care deeply about oaths.  A leader with these qualities likely leads by personal magnetism.  They probably insist on strict standards that no one is exempt from and they have little patients for the give and take or subtle pressures of most other political leaders.  These are definitely things that describe Dalinar as well as his brother Gavilar to a lesser extent.  These qualities are excellent for crisis leadership but problematic unless he have a large group of people willing to carry out your orders.  I am willing to postulate that the stormfather's bondmates were and often will be men and women with military experience or the equivalent in crisis prevention and intervention.

The other "godspren" we have seen is of course the Nightwatcher.  Little is known and less is understood about her.  She is the shadow(or child) of Cultivation, an individual who is very interested in change and growth.  The thing she is best known for is the old magic.  A system where petitioners who interest her are given a single boon and single curse.  Give and take add and subtract with the focus being on desires.  From this I postulate that the Nightwatcher would prefer an individual who shared her interests.  Someone who liked to watch the growth and decline of individuals, causes, and ideologies based on the complex interplay of emotions, goals, and beliefs.  Leaders like this tend to be professional politicians or businessmen and both have serious publicity problems(ironically). MB spoilers

Spoiler

rather like soothers on scadrial

From this it looks like a decent bet that the next Nightwatcher bondsmith will be Taravangian, or Ialia, both horrible people in some ways but they could also include people like the Abe Lincoln.

The final and most mysterious of the thee great spren is the sibling.  The sibling seems to have been involved with the running of Urithiru and to operate mechanically according to an organized process.  This leads me to the belief that sibling bondmates tend to b technocrats.  Individuals who operate the "levers" of political "machines" as well as making improvements to those "machines" so that they can exert influence more effectively.  This leads me to the unfortunately benign conclusion that Navani is our best future candidate.

[Nellac]

I think that Navani might just bond the Nightwatcher. Now, before you shout me down because it's another Kholin Radiant hear me out. For one, we have seen that Spren pay attention to people around Radiants. Many of bridge 4 and the other squires aren't as amazing representations of the windrunner oaths like Kaladin is, but they are moving in that direction and the Spren are interested in Kaladin and his bond. Now, given how much time Navani spends around Dalinar and the other Radiants if be very surprised if no Spren had taken an interested in her. Now, for the actual evidence, she is the kind of person you mentioned that is very politically minded and slyly manipulates others. She is a brilliant politician and has the trauma to have a broken spirit web. Also, we constantly see her leading and, in her own way, unifying groups. Two particular instances come to mind and I listen to the books on audio I don't have the exact quotes. At one point Dalinar or Adolin mention what a brilliant inventor she is and she started that she simply knows how to bring people together and fund them (probably butchered this, but it's something close). Also in Oath bringer at one point we see from her perspective trying to get the different kingdoms to work together. In her mind she talks about trying to figure it a way to keep the group together and not let it splinter. I know this isn't a ton of evidence, but it's my going theory on who the will bond the Nightwatcher.

 

P.S. I think that each bondsmith unites people in a different way

Stormfather: unites through shear force of will and a sense of duty/honor/doing the right thing

 

Nightwatcher: unites people it of necessity to survive and to help them grow personally and as a society

 

Sibling: (this is going off the theory that the sibling is of odium) the sibling unites people through their emotion and empathy for each other

[GoWibble he/him]

6 hours ago, Nellac said:

Sibling: (this is going off the theory that the sibling is of odium)

So unless the Sibling is just a compilation of all of the unmade, I don't think that the Sibling is the bondspren of Odium (if there is a Bondspren of Odium)

Quote

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

1) The Nightwatcher and Stormfather are parallel entities such that Nighwatcher:Cultivation :: Stormfather:Honor.

2) There is sort of a parallel for Odium, but the parallel is the various Unmade instead of a single entity.

3) They are parallel in that they are all Splinters.

4) The Unmade are voluntary Splinters, because Odium ("like almost all of the other Shards") voluntarily Splintered part of it's power.

5) The Stormfather is different from the others because it's a Sliver.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

I also want to point this out:

Quote

Questioner

If the highstorms existed prior to the Shards' arrival, what's the relationship between the highstorms and the Stormfather?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh good question. I was wondering if someone was going to ask that… So, I'll tr-- Let me see… *sighs*

You know, I'm actually going to RAFO this one. *laughter* And let me tell you why, because I mean, I want to give you some reasons to be interested in the things that Dalinar will be talking about with the Stormfather. So this is a RAFO with an explicit promise that book 3-- These are things that are covered now that we have bonded the Stormfather to a person who can now ask some of these questions. I could totally just tell you now, but where's the fun in that? Read book three.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by GoWibble

[DalinarShadow he/him]

I really Don't know why but I'm thinking that Taravangian can be a Bondsmith or potentially Fen the queen of Thaylenah. Travangian is the most probably, 'cause he want to work with Odium, so if Sibling is related to Odium we can see that, may be .

[Quantus he/him]

8 hours ago, Karger said:

The "godspren" we know most about is of course the stormfather.  The stormfather is the spren that sends the highstorms the most powerful and important ecological future of roshar.  If we had an analog on earth we would probably consider him something akin to Gaia, the voice of and regulator of an entire world.  He is a very forceful individual.  He is understandably not notable for subtly.  He is very regular in his patterns to the point where rosharans can accurately predict highstorms without satellite data or computers.  His final duty seems to involve overseeing the spren bonds that almost the entirety of the worlds ecology as well as singer forms depend on(he oversees radiant bonds too but that might be a left over task of honor).  His abilities and duties from honor are less defined so we won't go into them right now but it seems clear that the stormfather is attracted to individuals who are like him forceful, regulated, and care deeply about oaths.  A leader with these qualities likely leads by personal magnetism.  They probably insist on strict standards that no one is exempt from and they have little patients for the give and take or subtle pressures of most other political leaders.  These are definitely things that describe Dalinar as well as his brother Gavilar to a lesser extent.  These qualities are excellent for crisis leadership but problematic unless he have a large group of people willing to carry out your orders.  I am willing to postulate that the stormfather's bondmates were and often will be men and women with military experience or the equivalent in crisis prevention and intervention.

I dont think he actually "oversees" spren bonds in any meaningful way.  He now oversee's spren procreation directly, and separately the Singer Bonding requires the presence of the Hightstorm, but I think those are separate things.  If he actually regulated the Bonds themselves, then he would have been able to prevent Syl from Bonding Kaladin in teh first place, and probably been able to prevent all those Singers from bonding corrupted spren to make Stormform.

8 hours ago, Karger said:

The other "godspren" we have seen is of course the Nightwatcher.  Little is known and less is understood about her.  She is the shadow(or child) of Cultivation, an individual who is very interested in change and growth.  The thing she is best known for is the old magic.  A system where petitioners who interest her are given a single boon and single curse.  Give and take add and subtract with the focus being on desires.  From this I postulate that the Nightwatcher would prefer an individual who shared her interests.  Someone who liked to watch the growth and decline of individuals, causes, and ideologies based on the complex interplay of emotions, goals, and beliefs.  Leaders like this tend to be professional politicians or businessmen and both have serious publicity problems(ironically). MB spoilers

  Hide contents

rather like soothers on scadrial

From this it looks like a decent bet that the next Nightwatcher bondsmith will be Taravangian, or Ialia, both horrible people in some ways but they could also include people like the Abe Lincoln.

Of those two I would lean toward Mr T as being more likely (Ialai is a dangerous political enemy, but just doesnt seem that powerful and/or saavy in her own right), though I dont like the implications of a Bondsmith being a Team Odium turncoat.  As a general statement, I think the Nightmother is going to have a personality something similar to Ivory or Pattern, where they are Interested in the humans and their complexities but will also be somewhat baffled by those complexities, based on how Cultivation said she let the Nightwatcher hold court as a way to learn how to understand mortals (and how Forgiveness was beyond her understanding). 

8 hours ago, Karger said:

The final and most mysterious of the thee great spren is the sibling.  The sibling seems to have been involved with the running of Urithiru and to operate mechanically according to an organized process.  This leads me to the belief that sibling bondmates tend to b technocrats.  Individuals who operate the "levers" of political "machines" as well as making improvements to those "machines" so that they can exert influence more effectively.  This leads me to the unfortunately benign conclusion that Navani is our best future candidate.

For what it's worth, I also suspect the Sibling is going to be the rumored non-binary spren that thinks spren taking on gender makes no sense.  With even less evidence, I think the Sibling is a giant fractal-style Spren (a super-Cryptic) that represents the Continent itself and inhabits the earth and stone the way the Stormfather inhabits the Weather.  

[KandraAllomancer he/him]

The Stormfather goes from simply a destructive, natural force to the force of Honor thanks to Tanavast's influence. Dalinar's journey from Blackthorn to Bondsmith seems to mirror that. I think we can find good candidates that mirror the history and specific features of the other two godspren as well.

Nightwatcher's magic is mostly about spiritweb modification, which can alter a person's biology, physiology etc. in very non-standard ways. She lives in a remote, Cultivation-related place and doesn't fully understand mainstream Rosharan culture. Lift's abilities (which are a hint about broader scope Cultivation magic) are about food and affinity for the Cognitive Realm. We actually have a person that can unite people and ticks all the boxes - Rock.

The Sibling is harder, as we know very little about them. My personal theory is that he was initially the same type of spren as the Unmade, but was never corrupted and became Rosharan godspren instead (which explains the lack of Bondsmith Unmade and why the Sibling turned away from humanity after BAM was captured). If so, the perfect candidate would be Rlain, given that most of the Listeners were taken over by Odium. Also, Singers as a whole are kind of organic fabrials and were (metaphorically speaking) slumbering for a long time

[Karger he/him]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

I dont think he actually "oversees" spren bonds in any meaningful way.  He now oversee's spren procreation directly, and separately the Singer Bonding requires the presence of the Hightstorm, but I think those are separate things.  If he actually regulated the Bonds themselves, then he would have been able to prevent Syl from Bonding Kaladin in teh first place, and probably been able to prevent all those Singers from bonding corrupted spren to make Stormform.

He can't stop the bond but he is certainly responsible for overseeing them.  He has to let them happen but the actual mechanics of carrying them out are intrinsically tied to the storms.  Most rosharan creatures spend time in a highstorm during adolecent to form a sprenbond and the listeners use them to change forms.  He has to accept the words but his accept is still important.

12 minutes ago, KandraAllomancer said:

Nightwatcher's magic is mostly about spiritweb modification, which can alter a person's biology, physiology etc. in very non-standard ways. She lives in a remote, Cultivation-related place and doesn't fully understand mainstream Rosharan culture. Lift's abilities (which are a hint about broader scope Cultivation magic) are about food and affinity for the Cognitive Realm. We actually have a person that can unite people and ticks all the boxes - Rock.

Seems a bit of a stretch.  Rock likes people and he is actually fairly good at understanding them but I do not think he is interested in how those desires effect their actions.  When hearing about Dalinar's insult toward the other highprinces Rock just notes that they will be mad.  The broader implications about alethi culture don't really interest him much.  Additionally some of those things about the NW like not understanding Rosharan culture are probably just a not understanding people.  Finally Rock is the squire of another order.

12 minutes ago, KandraAllomancer said:

The Sibling is harder, as we know very little about them. My personal theory is that he was initially the same type of spren as the Unmade, but was never corrupted and became Rosharan godspren instead (which explains the lack of Bondsmith Unmade and why the Sibling turned away from humanity after BAM was captured). If so, the perfect candidate would be Rlain, given that most of the Listeners were taken over by Odium. Also, Singers as a whole are kind of organic fabrials and were (metaphorically speaking) slumbering for a long time

The unmade were splinters of Odium.  Why/how would he corrupt his own splinters?

10 hours ago, Nellac said:

Nightwatcher: unites people it of necessity to survive and to help them grow personally and as a society

The NW seems less concerned with needs then wants IMO.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Karger

[Quantus he/him]

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

He can't stop the bond but he is certainly responsible for overseeing them.  He has to let them happen but the actual mechanics of carrying them out are intrinsically tied to the storms.  Most rosharan creatures spend time in a highstorm during adolecent to form a sprenbond and the listeners use them to change forms.  He has to accept the words but his accept is still important.

That's just it, I cant think of any evidence that he gets involved with any Bonds but his own with Dalinar.  The Storm is involved is a lot of the other bonds, or at least in the Singer Forms, but that doesnt mean he "oversees" those bonds any more than he "oversees" the infusion of Gems during the storm.  

[Karger he/him]

15 minutes ago, Quantus said:

That's just it, I cant think of any evidence that he gets involved with any Bonds but his own with Dalinar.  The Storm is involved is a lot of the other bonds, or at least in the Singer Forms, but that doesnt mean he "oversees" those bonds any more than he "oversees" the infusion of Gems during the storm.  

He does not regulate them just has to make them happen.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Karger

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

Queen Fen jumps to my mind when I think Nightwatcher candidates, King T too. As for the sibling I don't think we know enough them to make good guesses, but going off the bureaucrat idea (which I like) I'd pick an Azir official.

[KandraAllomancer he/him]

6 hours ago, Karger said:

Seems a bit of a stretch.  Rock likes people and he is actually fairly good at understanding them but I do not think he is interested in how those desires effect their actions.  When hearing about Dalinar's insult toward the other highprinces Rock just notes that they will be mad.  The broader implications about alethi culture don't really interest him much.  Additionally some of those things about the NW like not understanding Rosharan culture are probably just a not understanding people.  Finally Rock is the squire of another order.

This particular part of the analogy doesn't work in 100%, I admit. To be fair, however, we don't know to what extent the NW is interested in broader implications of Rosharan culture and human actions, for now she mostly tries to figure out humans by trial and error. As for being a squire - the way I understand it, it's mostly about his Connection to Kaladin and gaining powers in his vicinity. I don't think it's that much different from the relation between Dalinar and Nergaoul, which didn't interfere with him becoming a Bondsmith

6 hours ago, Karger said:

The unmade were splinters of Odium.  Why/how would he corrupt his own splinters?

They are currently the splinters of Odium. We have the outright statement by Sja-anat and some additional clues (red eyes, Shallan's comments on Re-Shephir) that they used to be something else before being unmade/corrupted

Edited June 2, 2020 by KandraAllomancer

[+Harrycrapper]

17 hours ago, Karger said:

We all know(those of us who read OB at least) that there are three bondsmiths.   

Small correction, but we knew this as of Words of Radiance, it was in the in-world version of Words of Radiance. 

17 hours ago, Karger said:

The other "godspren" we have seen is of course the Nightwatcher.  Little is known and less is understood about her.  She is the shadow(or child) of Cultivation, an individual who is very interested in change and growth. 

I wouldn't say she's the shadow of Cultivation, or at least not in the capacity that the Stormfather kind of is the shadow of Tanavast. I think "adopted child" is more accurate.

Otherwise, pretty sound reasoning throughout. I wonder if Taravangian bonds the Nightwatcher if it would have any effect on his mental state. If he could somehow use her to tap into his genius side more often, the implications would be interesting. 

[Karger he/him]

1 hour ago, Harrycrapper said:

Small correction, but we knew this as of Words of Radiance, it was in the in-world version of Words of Radiance. 

Sort of but OB makes it much clearer and much of the information in the next few sentences is about stuff specifically from OB.

4 hours ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

Queen Fen jumps to my mind when I think Nightwatcher candidates, King T too. As for the sibling I don't think we know enough them to make good guesses, but going off the bureaucrat idea (which I like) I'd pick an Azir official.

Queen Fen strikes me as a more Stormfathery type.  I agree that an Azish bureaucrat would be a great choice for the sibling.  I personally hope they are some kind of entrenched fossil that Dalinar has to dig out of the palace.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Karger

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

15 hours ago, Karger said:

I personally hope they are some kind of entrenched fossil that Dalinar has to dig out of the palace.

That would be AMAZING!

[KandraAllomancer he/him]

16 hours ago, Karger said:

Queen Fen strikes me as a more Stormfathery type.  I agree that an Azish bureaucrat would be a great choice for the sibling.  I personally hope they are some kind of entrenched fossil that Dalinar has to dig out of the palace.

Not related to personality, but I would find it very weird if all Bondsmiths turned out to be human lighteyes (or people with high social status in Azir's case)

Edited June 3, 2020 by KandraAllomancer

[Master Silver]

I'd love to see Ralain bond the Nightwatcher, and gain a new form, and win at life forever. He would go from spy to slave, to body guard to the peer of Dalinar storming Kohlin. It would also be interesting to see what forms of power are granted when not bonded to a void spren, but one of the ten spren of the Knights Radiant.  

[Jaywalk he/him]

I’m not sure I have a preference on where the story goes—I don’t doubt I’ll love whatever Brandon gives us—but the more I think about it the more I like the idea of Navani bonding the Nightwatcher. I think that presents potential for an interesting dynamic/conflict between the two, as I would say Navani’s relationship with Dalinar is something she owes to the Nightwatcher, who laid the groundwork for it by taking away his memory of Evi. I’d also be curious to see how the Nightwatcher would take to the trapping of spren in fabrials, perhaps developing a fear or dislike of the artifabrians.

I like that possibility, but I also like the idea of Navani not being a Radiant and using her skills as an artifabrian to help in the war instead. Both would be very cool, I think.

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

8 hours ago, KandraAllomancer said:

Not related to personality, but I would find it very weird if all Bondsmiths turned out to be human lighteyes (or people with high social status in Azir's case)

I see where your coming from, but I think the Bondsmith spren are more than likely to seek out existing rulers and others with large influence. They are the top of the spren world and will want to bond with the top of the human world.

[KandraAllomancer he/him]

12 hours ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

I see where your coming from, but I think the Bondsmith spren are more than likely to seek out existing rulers and others with large influence. They are the top of the spren world and will want to bond with the top of the human world.

Maybe, though in Dalinar's case his power and reputation turned out to be both a boon and a curse The Sibling wouldn't even probably understand the concept of lighteyeys/darkeyes in the beginning and their Bondsmith would reside in Urithiru anyway, so they seem far less susceptible to choosing an established person of authority.

As for the Nightwatcher - Yanagawn maybe? He's literally the middle ground in that regard and watching him grow as a ruler as the NW grows to understand human relations would be extremely interesting

[Karger he/him]

21 hours ago, KandraAllomancer said:

Not related to personality, but I would find it very weird if all Bondsmiths turned out to be human lighteyes (or people with high social status in Azir's case)

They are going to be the people with leadership experience.

[KandraAllomancer he/him]

14 minutes ago, Karger said:

They are going to be the people with leadership experience.

That's technically the attribute of Windrunners, for Bondsmiths we have Pious/ Guiding. Also, I'm not sure if spren look for experience or potential more. What experience did Tien have, for example, to potentially become a Lightweaver?

[Karger he/him]

1 hour ago, KandraAllomancer said:

What experience did Tien have, for example, to potentially become a Lightweaver?

He understood how to look at things differently and see the beauty in them. 

1 hour ago, KandraAllomancer said:

That's technically the attribute of Windrunners, for Bondsmiths we have Pious/ Guiding

and I was defining leadership in the broader sense.  The Bondsmiths lead Urithiru.  One was always near the 10 thrones.  The spren are not going to assign that kind of responsibility to someone who does not know what they are doing.  They might not be the classic leader but they are going to have some experience in government or command.  Also attributes are cultural.

[agrabes]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

He understood how to look at things differently and see the beauty in them. 

and I was defining leadership in the broader sense.  The Bondsmiths lead Urithiru.  One was always near the 10 thrones.  The spren are not going to assign that kind of responsibility to someone who does not know what they are doing.  They might not be the classic leader but they are going to have some experience in government or command.  Also attributes are cultural.

I agree with what you're saying, but I would add that it doesn't necessarily have to be someone with experience.  Just someone with a strong natural aptitude for it.  Dalinar is our only example right now, but he had a headstart.  He said his first two oaths at the same time since he already had the experience and made the personal development before starting the path of becoming a Radiant.  The next candidate might say their first oath as the first step on their path toward becoming a leader.

I think the distinction between Bondsmiths and Windrunners in terms of leadership is that Bondsmiths decide what should be done and why while Windrunners lead others in getting it done.  I could also see a religious leader becoming a Bondsmith.  After all, Ishar was seen as sort of the spiritual leader of the Heralds/Radiants.  Even Dalinar is kind of a spiritual leader in a way, a lot of what he does has to do with interpreting the Vorin religion and what it says about how people should act in light of the things they learn over the course of the series.  He doesn't have a lot of followers yet, but he's basically starting a new sect of the Vorin religion.

[Karger he/him]

4 minutes ago, agrabes said:

I think the distinction between Bondsmiths and Windrunners in terms of leadership is that Bondsmiths decide what should be done and why while Windrunners lead others in getting it done.  I could also see a religious leader becoming a Bondsmith.  After all, Ishar was seen as sort of the spiritual leader of the Heralds/Radiants.  Even Dalinar is kind of a spiritual leader in a way, a lot of what he does has to do with interpreting the Vorin religion and what it says about how people should act in light of the things they learn over the course of the series.  He doesn't have a lot of followers yet, but he's basically starting a new sect of the Vorin religion.

I agree with a lot of this but I will still maintain that your bondsmith candidates are going to be older and they are also going to be experienced running things, have a high level understanding of ethics and be used to some form of management.  They don't need to be kings.  They could be business leaders, project managers, university heads, high level nobles or bureaucrats and as you said religious leaders but unlike the windrunners I don't think your going to get many "raw recruits."

Edited June 4, 2020 by Karger

[KandraAllomancer he/him]

5 hours ago, Karger said:

I agree with a lot of this but I will still maintain that your bondsmith candidates are going to be older and they are also going to be experienced running things, have a high level understanding of ethics and be used to some form of management.  They don't need to be kings.  They could be business leaders, project managers, university heads, high level nobles or bureaucrats and as you said religious leaders but unlike the windrunners I don't think your going to get many "raw recruits."

That's perfectly fine reasoning, but it's based on an implicit assumption that the godspren want to provide an immediate advantage for humanity. Unlike the Stormfather, the Nightwatcher has a living parent with supposedly great futuresight and might be persuaded by Cultivation to bond with a candidate whose qualifications will bloom and become useful only in Arc 2. As for the Sibling, I can definitely imagine them being angry at Navani and humankind in general (if Taravangian's revelation that half-shard spren are sapient and trapped against their will turns out to be true) and turn to Singers instead

Edited June 4, 2020 by KandraAllomancer