Harry Potter; The Controversy

[Condensation she/her]

8 hours ago, Danex said:

I HAVE OPINIONS!!!

I think it is definitely subjective based on who you are, but I think it’s predictably subjective. I think people’s opinions on the books are entirely dependent on when they read them, and have almost nothing to do with the actual content of the books. A bold claim, I know. Let me explain: 
 

If you read these books as they were coming out, you almost definitely like them. Especially if you were the same age-ish as the characters as they came out. You grew up with these books, they’re nostalgic. The characters are familiar, the setting, it all still has that small hint of magic. You can recognize the flaws in them now, but it’s easy for you to overlook them in favor of all the memories you have associated with the series. 

If you read the books as a kid, but after they all came out, you probably liked them originally, but now have a sorta ‘eh’ feeling about the series. You read them in mid/late elementary school, and they helped you grow a love of reading. You don’t have the same context as the people who read them as they came out though. It was just a good series that you read as a kid, but now it’s obviously kinda lackluster. You probably group Harry Potter together with other series like the Septimus Heap books, or anything by Brandon Mull. They were okay, but you would be somewhat disappointed going back to them now.

If you read the books as someone older, and as someone who already enjoyed reading, especially if you had already been introduced to Sanderson, you have a rather negative opinion of the books. You have absolutely none of the context that that people who read the books growing up do. The series was new and innovative then. It introduced people to the fantasy genre, and to reading in general. You already like to read, and you’ve already read a lot of fantasy. Harry Potter can’t even hold a candle to the brilliance that is the Cosmere. You can understand why people enjoy them, but you can’t yourself. 

So how did I do? Do you guys agree with my assessment? Keep in mind that I’m completely ignoring the movies as a factor, that can mess with peoples opinions in a ton of different ways. Personally I am in the second category, I liked them as a kid, I reread them a lot, but I wouldn’t like them now. I do still thoroughly enjoy the movies though. But that’s an entirely different topic.  

@Channelknight Fadran As someone with a Ravenclaw symbol as your profile banner, do you have opinions?

I don't know. I feel like there are definitely outliers from these characters, but I feel like that is a good general assessment.

[dannnex male]

1 hour ago, Condensation said:

I don't know. I feel like there are definitely outliers from these characters, but I feel like that is a good general assessment.

I think all those outliners are dependent on other factors within the Wizarding World franchise 

Like the movies, the spin off movies, the supplementary reading material, the theme park. All those factors result in a much more complicated opinion.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Danex

[Condensation she/her]

1 minute ago, Danex said:

I think all those outliners are dependent on other factors within the Wizarding World franchise 

Like the movies, the spin off movies, the supplementary reading material, the theme park. All those factors result in a much more complicated opinion.

That's true, but I was just talking about the books. Some people read them as they came out and didn't like them, some people love them no matter what, they're not necessarily because of FBaWtFT or Harry Potter Land.

[Frustration]

On 10/6/2020 at 5:18 PM, Chasmgoat said:

How does the magic work?). I enjoyed it, and now I do not enjoy it. I cannot say I hate it since I once loved it, but I do hate it when people say they love the magic system and stuff like that...

Soft magic is not bad. end of discusion.

10 hours ago, Danex said:

You probably group Harry Potter together with other series like the Septimus Heap books, or anything by Brandon Mull. They were okay, but you would be somewhat disappointed going back to them now.

Do not group Brandon Mull in with these below average dumpster fires, yes Fablehaven is geared for children yes Arcade Catastrophe is just a re-branding of Cadyshop War but Beyonders holds up to me even now, Five Kingdoms is beautiful and I'm actively reading Dragonwatch(although it is dragons so this point might be moot). 

4 hours ago, Dunkum said:

Out of curiosity, can you elaborate on this some? I don't particularly remeber very much foreshadowing, especially in the earlier books.

The Vanishing Cabinet that Draco spent book six repairing was broken in book two.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Frustration

[Condensation she/her]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Soft magic is not bad. end of discusion.

Do not group Brandon Mull in with these below average dumpster fires, yes Fablehaven is geared for children yes Arcade Catastrophe is just a re-branding of Cadyshop War but Beyonders holds up to me even now, Five Kingdoms is beautiful and I'm actively reading Dragonwatch(although it is dragons so this point might be moot). 

The Vanishing Cabinet that Draco spent book six repairing was broken in book two.

*discussion

Yes! Beyonders!!! Fablehaven!!! Eee!

Yes, that part was awesome.

[Iarwainiel I she/her]

@Danex I'm someone [a lot!] older, who has always enjoyed reading, and who was already a Sander-fan, and I've never had a negative opinion of the HP books. As I watched young people reading the books when they first came out, I could empathize with them strongly, remembering books that impacted me when I was that age. So while it's not exactly the same, I wouldn't say that I had "absolutely none of the context" because of my empathy (which I'm told is one of the reasons I'm freakishly good at my day job, so it's not just me bragging). But you're right in that few people are good at seeing through someone else's eyes. It's just a knack I have that I don't deserve but am very thankful for 'cause it adds a lot of joy to my life.

I think you're definitely on to something here though. Maybe it's more about expectations: The more experience you have (in reading and in life), the more expectations you're likely to have on a new book series or movie or whatever. And that lines up 100% with your "bold claim."

It's also another reason why I was able to enjoy HP: I try hard to keep my expectations low almost all the time, because that leads to more happy surprises and fewer disappointments, LOL. What can I say? It works for me.

I love how you and so many here on the Shard are thoughtful and seeking to analyze and understand how people think. Don't stop! It's a rare skill and will surely help you in all manner of situations throughout your life. Too many people don't think, or don't enjoy thinking - I bet you've noticed that too! - and it's awesome to meet other thinkers here in the Forums!

[Koloss17 She/They]

I quite like what Harry Potter is. It is ver, very flawed, but surprisingly it doesn’t matter. There’s a bit of funk with the house elves maybe being a weird metaphor for something, but that is fairly fine. I love the wizarding world and it is great! Sadly the legacy of Harry Potter is tainted to me with JKR being JKR. Every time I think of Harry Potter, I just have flashbacks of her essay. So that’s kinda ruined Harry Potter for me.

[Elegy he/him]

40 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

There’s a bit of funk with the house elves maybe being a weird metaphor for something, but that is fairly fine.

Yeah, this is a very Potter thing ...Thinking about the actual implications of its statements, metaphors and depictions leads to very strange places! It's probably better to ignore stuff like that, but I personally like thinking about it, and thinking about the broken workings of the Wizard World - it's like finding weird glitches in a video game, there's some twisted kind of fun to it 

[Eluvianii he/him]

Well, I'm in a weird spot, because I grew up with the movies, not the books. Now, I've called myself a Harry Potter fan since I was like 3, but I kind of distanced myself from the series around the time the PoA movie came out. Later when I was somewhere between 8 and 10 I read the fourth book, and I thoroughly loved it, it was such a shock to me to see just how much more detail it had. It's the reason I'm a fantasy reader now. I've always liked reading but as a kid it was only technical books for kids with random facts, but Goblet of Fire was my first actual novel. After that, I continued reading the series in no particular order for years until I finally read Deathly Hallows in high school. 

How does that translate into how I feel now? Well, I'm just finding out. I'm on my first full reread of the series, halfway through Goblet of Fire, and I must say, I'm enjoying it a lot more than the first time. I'm a better reader now than then, I'm better at picturing scenes in my mind (something I've always had trouble with) and I have better retention. So far it's been great, the first two books are somewhat clumsy but there's a charm in seeing just a bunch of kids acting like kids, saving the world in the process for some reason. After that it gets better, and I'll assume it just keeps going up (my memories of the last three books are somewhat fuzzy, which is a good thing). 

I would also call myself more of a Wizarding World fan than a Harry Potter fan at this point, but that obviously mean I love the original series. So, thinking like that and giving it the "You come back to something you loved as a kid. Is it better or worse?" test, I'd say this one is better now than then. 

[Snorkel]

I read Harry Potter when it came out, and I always enjoy re-reading them.

I feel like a lot of people dislike them, not because of their content, but because of their popularity.  Also, I suspect, because of the movies - slightly different issue to popularity.  In my opinion, most of the movies were not very good (I think books of the length of 4 - 7 really need the mini-series treatment rather than movie, but anyway).  There are people who have ONLY watched the movies, they didn't enjoy them, and they judge the books on that, which I find very unfair.  I finally watched the movies of the last three books just a year or two back. I'm never going to watch any of the movies again.

I have been accused of reading Harry Potter only because it is popular (not here, in other conversations), which makes me very annoyed. I read the first one before it was popular, and was extremely surprised when the series became actually known outside of the reading community.

But, I get that push-back against things that get over-hyped.  If I'd tried to read it after it was already popular, especially book 1 with stuff like "nitwit blubber oddment tweak", I probably would have reacted quite differently. "People are going nuts for THIS?!"  But I read it as a random book that we'd picked up from the library, and it was charming and original, and I liked it, and I still like it.

 

And, back to the original topic.  I did find it very refreshing to have a very unkind character who is on the side of good.  It's so rare in fiction.  But does happen in real life.  There have definitely been moments IRL where people I'd written off as being just awful would surprise me by backing me on something, or going out of their way to do the right thing.  I don't like how black and white things usually are in children's books.

(It's reminiscent of that even worse trend where beautiful people are always good and ugly people are always bad, I always appreciate authors smashing that horrible trope. Jadis being beautiful was superb.)

Edited October 14, 2020 by Snorkel

[Coolmint]

Loved the ORIGINAL book series, and the first two films.  The other films had their good points but seemed to lose the heart of the story in overblown special effects.  And Umbridge was truly evil, not a semi-comedic figure.  Bad scripting of a good actress.

I am in fact revisiting the entire film series now.  Up to Azkaban today.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Coolmint

[The Isochronism he/him]

I personally am not a huge fan of Harry Potter, mostly because the writing-style feels childish and juvenile. (To me at least, I know that some people love that style, or think ti fits the books really well, but it's never worked for me.)

[Coolmint]

We just finished watching ALL the films.  

I don't care for the way the final scenes in the last Hallows film were handled; they were dark, confusing, and much better done in the book, without the prolonged CGI snake battle.  I prefer the book's ending, when Harry visits Dumbledore's portrait in the office and uses the Elder Wand to repair his own, then replaces the Elder Wand in Dumbledore's tomb.

I did, however appreciate Malfoy's transformation from a one-note, smirking bully to a terrified youth who found he had bitten off more than he could chew.  Well-done in both book and films.

And a personal beef about trimming Crookshanks' role in the films (though I can see why), and omitting Pigwidgeon, Ron's new owl.