shardpool Shard River

[Aon Tia she/her]

7 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Thaylen may have something as well

Why white hair though? More yoelish influence

[Calderis he/him]

When it comes to the idea of a shard "river" I'm... Honestly I doubt it. Not so much because of property of the Investiture, but magnitude. 

The Well and the pool. Near Elantris are both contained an only a few feet wide. Liquid Investiture is the most potent form, and it shows... The Well was enough power to reshape and move a planet. 

To have enough Investiture to create a stable flow for even a brook or stream would be... An astounding amount of power. 

[Aon Tia she/her]

Just now, Calderis said:

To have enough Investiture to create a stable flow for even a brook or stream would be... An astounding amount of power. 

You think a bi-shard like harmony can have one though?

[Calderis he/him]

Just now, The traveller said:

You think a bi-shard like harmony can have one though?

I mean... Could he? Yeah probably. But it seems like it would need to be an intentional expenditure of power. For what purpose?

[Honorless he/him]

23 minutes ago, The traveller said:

Ok guys.. 

Back to the topic, do you think shard sea is possible? Shard ocean? Do you think Adonalsium had a shardocean somewhere

Adonalsium probably could do that. Who knows? Maybe Yolen had/would have a Shardocean before his Shattering/when Dragonsteel is written

16 minutes ago, The traveller said:

Why white hair though? More Yolish influence

I don't think that's Yolish influence. Yolen is hidden somehow. No idea how the Ghostbloods got there or Taldain (which is supposed to be isolated by Autonomy around this time, but maybe they went before) or First of the Sun (through Patji! which 17th Shard expeditions wouldn't manage for a long time) or Threnody (which is supposed to have unstable Perpendicularities which form on and off, are difficult to predict and have a morbid origin)

Edited November 10, 2019 by Honorless

[Aon Tia she/her]

4 minutes ago, Honorless said:

I don't think that's Yolish influence.

You know who else has long white hair ?

[Honorless he/him]

14 minutes ago, Calderis said:

When it comes to the idea of a shard "river" I'm... Honestly I doubt it. Not so much because of property of the Investiture, but magnitude. 

The Well and the pool. Near Elantris are both contained an only a few feet wide. Liquid Investiture is the most potent form, and it shows... The Well was enough power to reshape and move a planet. 

To have enough Investiture to create a stable flow for even a brook or stream would be... An astounding amount of power. 

Hmm, that is true, rivers carry tons of freshwater, even small ones, though the amount of water that they hold is often less apparent than a lake because people often forget to consider that a river is constantly flowing 

A Shard could design the river to loop back into itself, that would be fun: a river with no source or end. They could also maybe design it to not empty into the ocean, just disappear back into the Spiritual (paralleling the Styx and Acheron)

 

Hmm, while Devotion's pool was small and later Preservation's Well was also relatively small, both him and Ruin originally had a good-sized underground lake of liquid Investiture. Devotion was Shattered and is now mixed with Dominion in the Dor while Preservation was sort of a Cognitive Shadow at that point. Cultivation has multiple lakes. Shards can move planets, I don't think they'll have much trouble fueling a stream or even a river.

And we do see something close to what I described: the pool on Patji, maintained by an Avatar of a Shard, is a source of a small stream

[Aon Tia she/her]

4 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Shard could design the river to loop back into itself, that would be fun: a river with no source or end. 

Actually such things do exist but they are still called lakes, ox-bow lakes...

[Honorless he/him]

22 minutes ago, The traveller said:

You know who else has long white hair ?

Old people

Hahahaha!

1 minute ago, The traveller said:

Actually such things do exist but they are still called lakes, ox-bow lakes...

Nope, oxbow lakes are crescent shaped lakes that are formed when a river bend gets cut off from the main flow

[Aon Tia she/her]

Just now, Honorless said:

Old people

Hahahaha!

Nope, oxbow lakes are crescent shaped lakes that are formed when a river bend gets cut off from the main flow

Yup and it is nearly a circle at least in the first stage of their life.. a river that is a loop with no new addition of water is basically a lake only..

[Honorless he/him]

1 minute ago, The traveller said:

Yup and it is nearly a circle at least in the first stage of their life.. a river that is a loop with no new addition of water is basically a lake only..

Even if it flows for many, many kilometres?

This would depend on personal interpretation, the world isn't as clear-cut as human terminologies, after all

[Calderis he/him]

9 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Cultivation has multiple lakes.

We don't actually know that. 

All references to Cultivation's perpendicularity have been singular, and just because it's located in a hot spring doesn't mean that the entirety of the waters are the Shardpool. 

For the example, look at Patji's eye. Dusk and Vathi trek up a stream to reach it, but the eye seems to be a very different thing than the stream itself. I don't think the stream is purely Investiture like the perpendicularity, though I wouldn't be surprised if the water is lightly invested as a result.

[Aon Tia she/her]

4 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Even if it flows for many, many kilometres?

This would depend on personal interpretation, the world isn't as clear-cut as human terminologies, after all

Great Lakes of USA flows for many many kilometers, they are still called lakes

It is a cool idea, a ring-shaped perpendicularity, I wish we get to see one, but all I am saying is, it would still be a lake.. 

@Calderis I did not know that shardpools could have streams flowing out of it. That makes a shardriver based drainage system more likely to me..

Edited November 10, 2019 by The traveller

[Honorless he/him]

3 hours ago, Calderis said:

We don't actually know that. 

All references to Cultivation's perpendicularity have been singular, and just because it's located in a hot spring doesn't mean that the entirety of the waters are the Shardpool. 

For the example, look at Patji's eye. Dusk and Vathi trek up a stream to reach it, but the eye seems to be a very different thing than the stream itself. I don't think the stream is purely Investiture like the perpendicularity, though I wouldn't be surprised if the water is lightly invested as a result.

Multiple peaks have these water bodies actually.

Yeah, the pool does seem more contained, the stream may be diluted

3 hours ago, The traveller said:

Great Lakes of USA flows for many many kilometers, they are still called lakes

The Great Lakes aren't what I had in mind when I was imagining this hypothetical river, I just thought it would be fun if such a thing existed.

The Great Lakes are connected to multiple rivers and the Atlantic, check out St Lawrence river or the debate on the source of the Nile or the length of the Amazon

A 'river' is an idea of human construction referring to a moving body of water, while a still body of water would be called a lake. Some water bodies are obviously rivers, some are not so cleanly defined. A looping river wouldn't really be called as such in the real world, since it would become stagnant, with Investiture though... 

It was just a fun idea alongside the other idea of a spiritual river, bearing parallels to multiple real-world cultures' myths

Edited November 10, 2019 by Honorless

[Calderis he/him]

7 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Multiple peaks have these water bodies actually.

All of the peaks have a hot spring sure. It's what makes the peaks livable in the first place. 

That doesn't mean all of the peaks have a perpendicularity. 

[Honorless he/him]

13 minutes ago, Calderis said:

All of the peaks have a hot spring sure. It's what makes the peaks livable in the first place. 

That doesn't mean all of the peaks have a perpendicularity. 

Huh, that is true

There is this WoB though, that still supports my original point:

Quote

Hoiditthroughthegrapevine

Can a Shard have more than one Shardpool?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

 

[Aon Tia she/her]

24 minutes ago, Calderis said:

All of the peaks have a hot spring sure. It's what makes the peaks livable in the first place. 

That doesn't mean all of the peaks have a perpendicularity

Does not mean that but the way it is written, my impression was that there were more than one shardpools, a collection of many shardpools .. 

Rock mentions these lakes as “waters of life” and says if unkalakis swim in it sometimes they see place of gods. If it were only one such pool, he would have said, but one is extra special..

[Calderis he/him]

1 hour ago, The traveller said:

Does not mean that but the way it is written, my impression was that there were more than one shardpools, a collection of many shardpools .. 

Rock mentions these lakes as “waters of life” and says if unkalakis swim in it sometimes they see place of gods. If it were only one such pool, he would have said, but one is extra special..

There's a simple solution that explains the idea that the Shardpool could be in multiple "oceans," why Cultivation's Shardpool is only ever reffered to singularly, and why entering the water shows them the "place of gods" only sometimes. 

The Shardpool moves between them.

[Honorless he/him]

38 minutes ago, Calderis said:

There's a simple solution that explains the idea that the Shardpool could be in multiple "oceans," why Cultivation's Shardpool is only ever reffered to singularly, and why entering the water shows them the "place of gods" only sometimes. 

The Shardpool moves between them.

Honor's Perpendicularity moves, we don't have any such WoBs on Cultivation's.

Let me propose an even simpler one: the lakes are all connected

(for those of you who haven't seen too many mountains, a mountain can have multiple peaks, given that the Unkalaki are apparently capable of warring with one another, this seems likely)

Basically, maybe it's just one underground lake, surfacing at different points due to the terrain?

 

I'm still on The traveller's side though, they are always talked of as 'Oceans'. We won't have to wonder for long though, given that Brandon's promised we'll get to see the peaks, and with Moelach settling there, it seems we might see them in Book 4 itself.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Honorless

[Aon Tia she/her]

31 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Let me propose an even simpler one: the lakes are all connected

(for those of you who haven't seen too many mountains, a mountain can have multiple peaks, given that the Unkalaki are apparently capable of warring with one another, this seems likely)

Basically, maybe it's just one underground lake, surfacing at different points due to the terrain?

Agreed, not sure on how it will work but that seems more likely then now cultivation’s perpendicularity is moving too..

[Lunu’anaki he/him]

On 11/10/2019 at 3:11 AM, Honorless said:

A Shard could design the river to loop back into itself, that would be fun: a river with no source or end. They could also maybe design it to not empty into the ocean, just disappear back into the Spiritual (paralleling the Styx and Acheron)

This would be such a cool setup for one of the yet to be discovered shard’s magic systems. A sort of Nile river and the Egyptians situation where the river is the entire basis of a world or an empires culture and lifestyle.