[Theory] It has been foreshadowed that Adolin will be a Radiant.

[Guest]

Okay, here's a theory: they don't "go" anywhere, and just float around their owners, invisible to everyone. Syl is only visible to Kaladin because he's got some extra Investiture. Everyone with a Shardblade, then, has a mindless spren leashed to them that they and others can't see. Eshonai, at the same time that she got extra Odium Investiture, suddenly gained the ability to see her spren and hear its screaming.

 

I mean, where else would they go? Syl is a regular spren when she's not a Shardblade, and I don't see why dead spren would suddenly shift to a different Realm.

 

I'm not convinced of this theory, but it would explain the facts nicely.

 

Didn't Brandon mentioned in a WoB all dead spren revolved to their shardblade form because it was their default form? Right after the Recreance, we also know the shards owners were not able to bond their blades. It is only after someone thought to add a gem to decorate his they managed to perform this feat.

 

I have no idea where they go, but I am pretty sure they don't just float around. It has something to do with the gem, so maybe it gives them enough strength to vanish into the cognitive realm, still in their shardblade form.

 

 

If they can't leave their Shardblade form, where do they go, then? I'm not satisfied by the idea that they meld with their owner or go somewhere that's not the Physical. Obviously they're not always in the shape of swords, so they can change form that way. Maybe they copy the Honorblades - I have no clue where those go.

 

As to reviving a dead spren, I'm not sure. I feel like it's been foreshadowed that they will be revived, but apparently you need the original Knights. Can't offer much speculation on this.

 

My theory is they go into the cognitive realm with the help of their attached gem. They retain their shardblade form, but are just there, until they are summoned again and through this summoning, they are able to grasp a little conscience. When dismissed, I think they are just mindless.

 

You need the original knights, but maybe if someone compassionate enough to actually try to connect with his blade, confiding himself into it, doing more than just slaughtering living creatures, then maybe it would be enough to get one out of limbo.

 

 

I agree, she's perfect for a Willshaper and could easily have attracted a spren before she took up leading the army. I just don't see why her spren would appear after she took on stormform. The timing is coincidental for her attracted spren to start showing itself, but the timing makes more sense if its her Shardblade and she just recently gained the ability to tune into its screaming.

 

What we need is a Renarin flashback where he tells us what it's like to hear your Shardblade constantly screaming at you.

 

But Eshonai is not hearing her blade screaming. She does not even have her blade during that scene. It is pretty obvious the blades start screaming at you once you say the first oath as we see with Dalinar. Renarin probably didn't hear his screaming initially. Based on the facts we have, I believe the first time he hears it is during the battle with Jakamav, on the plain, when he tries to scare some Parshendi away. It is also the first scene where we see him without his glasses, indicating he has drawn stormlight and thus have a bond.

 

As for why Eshonai's spren decided to appear at that specific moment, my theory is that Eshonai did not say any oath. She has attracted a spren, but that spren got scared when she took Stormform and it flew away. There was no bond yet, but the potential of a bond. We know the spren can flow around their proto-radiants for a ling time before any oath is spoken and I believe, with Eshonai, we have seen what happens when a spren choses someone that does not come through in the end.

[smokeesid]

I can surmise that he could acceptably be an Edgedancer

 

One of the attributes I interpreted from Lift was that she was proud which Wyndle himself stated (proud and noble). I have read here that they were also refined. And all these qualities are well claimed for Adolin which leaves us with the 2nd ideal that depends upon the reader's interpretation of it.

 

"I remember those who are forgotten". I think people retain those who are regarded special. But the common, ordinary people are neglected. I interpreted it as considering/regarding/caring for them. Adolin is shown to mingle well with Darkeyes or low-ranking. So it's not far-fetched to imagine him caring for an ordinary citizen while he was harmed by the enemy the way Lift did.

[Moogle]

I can surmise that he could acceptably be an Edgedancer

 

One of the attributes I interpreted from Lift was that she was proud which Wyndle himself stated (proud and noble). I have read here that they were also refined. And all these qualities are well claimed for Adolin which leaves us with the 2nd ideal that depends upon the reader's interpretation of it.

 

"I remember those who are forgotten". I think people retain those who are regarded special. But the common, ordinary people are neglected. I interpreted it as considering/regarding/caring for them. Adolin is shown to mingle well with Darkeyes or low-ranking. So it's not far-fetched to imagine him caring for an ordinary citizen while he was harmed by the enemy the way Lift did.

 

Of note, Adolin's Shardblade grows like vines when he summons it. This likely means it was an Edgedancer's Blade at one point. I'm actually warming up to Maxal's speculation that Adolin will revive his Blade.

 

Edgedancers were feared for being 'deadly', too. It could fit with Adolin's murder of Sadeas.

 

Also, as Truthwatchers are next to Edgedancers on the chart, it sort of fits that Adolin is siblings with Renarin if he's an Edgedancer.

 

I'm not all that sure if Loving/Healing applies to Adolin, though. Still, I don't think the description is as straightforward as it seems - Wyndle doesn't push Lift to be loving/healing, after all. We haven't seen enough of Lift to know yet.

[Guest]

Of note, Adolin's Shardblade grows like vines when he summons it. This likely means it was an Edgedancer's Blade at one point. I'm actually warming up to Maxal's speculation that Adolin will revive his Blade.

 

Edgedancers were feared for being 'deadly', too. It could fit with Adolin's murder of Sadeas.

 

Also, as Truthwatchers are next to Edgedancers on the chart, it sort of fits that Adolin is siblings with Renarin if he's an Edgedancer.

 

I'm not all that sure if Loving/Healing applies to Adolin, though. Still, I don't think the description is as straightforward as it seems - Wyndle doesn't push Lift to be loving/healing, after all. We haven't seen enough of Lift to know yet.

 

I recall a discussion where posters argued Adolin's sword must belong to the Edgedancer's order because of the wine thing it does when it is summoned... This is an interesting theory, even if hard to prove as we do not know if the behavior of a dead shardblade, when summoned, is linked in anyway to its former order.

 

I do agree the generic description of the Edgedancer could fit Adolin and he does come out as a "loving" person, always putting those he loves and their well-being above his own. He does carry his dead  mother's locket and managed to convinced himself it brings him luck... And yeah, he does seem to believe in his little ritual: he was clearly disturbed when he couldn't performed it properly.

 

However, I wonder what Adolin would do with Progression... the healing surge? I just somehow do not quite picture him as a surgeon or a healer.

 

There is also the fact Edgedancers are described as being frivolous and superficial. I do agree Adolin, in the beginning of WoK, was described as such: all he claimed he cared about were dueling, courting and drinking. But it is not true. The one thing I have found Adolin does care about, consistently, is doing the right thing, doing what he believes he must, even if he would rather be doing something very trivial and amusing.  He always put duty above his own wishes, desires and well-being. When he is about to be slay by Szeth, his thoughts are not of fear, pain or sadness, but of guilt as he feels he is deceiving his father.... Even on the bring of death, Adolin cares more about others then himself. It could be Adolin would prefer to be the well-dressed fop everyone takes him for, but he isn't, which is why I think a more grave order such as the Dustbringer is more fitting.

 

And if we cannot determine without a doubt which order Adolin's blade belongs too, we do know his plate is from the Dustbringer's order.

 

I am glad you are warming up to my favorite theory In my head, I have even given a name to Adolin's blade

Edited October 6, 2014 by maxal

[Moogle]

I recall a discussion where posters argued Adolin's sword must belong to the Edgedancer's order because of the wine thing it does when it is summoned... This is an interesting theory, even if hard to prove as we do not know if the behavior of a dead shardblade, when summoned, is linked in anyway to its former order.

 

Definitely offtopic, but for those not convinced by the theory that Shardblades, when summoned, morph into spren to Blade form and you can see it in the mist:

• Shallan's Blade: Shallan growled, thrusting her hands forward. Mist twisted and writhed in her hands as a brilliantly silver Blade formed there, spearing Tyn through the chest. The woman barely had time to gasp in surprise as her eyes burned in her skull.

  Pattern twists and writhes himself.

• Kaladin's Blade: Wind blew in the opening in the wall, and Syl’s ribbon of light became mist, a form she often took. Silver mist, which grew larger, coalesced before Kaladin, extending into his hand.

  It's mist... that expands, like one of Syl's favorite forms.

• Jasnah: She stabbed her hand out in the blink of an eye, mist twisting around her arm and snapping into the form of a long, thin sword pointed at Wit’s neck.

  Ivory is oily, which might fit the mist twisting around her arm (other Shardblades have their mist form in the hand). Alternatively, the way Ivory teleports around (he poofs when Shallan sees him) would maybe fit how it happened 'in the blink of an eye', though that may be more Jasnah's hand than the Shardblade forming. This one is something of a stretch.

• Adolin: Adolin summoned his Blade, then dismissed it, then summoned it again. A nervous habit. The white fog appeared—manifesting as little vines sprouting in the air— before snapping into the form of a Shardblade, which suddenly weighed down his hand.

  And here we see vines, and conveniently Wyndle is made of vines.

The evidence is not absolute, but I'd be shocked if it weren't true.

[Guest]

Definitely offtopic, but for those not convinced by the theory that Shardblades, when summoned, morph into spren to Blade form and you can see it in the mist:

• Shallan's Blade: Shallan growled, thrusting her hands forward. Mist twisted and writhed in her hands as a brilliantly silver Blade formed there, spearing Tyn through the chest. The woman barely had time to gasp in surprise as her eyes burned in her skull.

  Pattern twists and writhes himself.

• Kaladin's Blade: Wind blew in the opening in the wall, and Syl’s ribbon of light became mist, a form she often took. Silver mist, which grew larger, coalesced before Kaladin, extending into his hand.

  It's mist... that expands, like one of Syl's favorite forms.

• Jasnah: She stabbed her hand out in the blink of an eye, mist twisting around her arm and snapping into the form of a long, thin sword pointed at Wit’s neck.

  Ivory is oily, which might fit the mist twisting around her arm (other Shardblades have their mist form in the hand). Alternatively, the way Ivory teleports around (he poofs when Shallan sees him) would maybe fit how it happened 'in the blink of an eye', though that may be more Jasnah's hand than the Shardblade forming. This one is something of a stretch.

• Adolin: Adolin summoned his Blade, then dismissed it, then summoned it again. A nervous habit. The white fog appeared—manifesting as little vines sprouting in the air— before snapping into the form of a Shardblade, which suddenly weighed down his hand.

  And here we see vines, and conveniently Wyndle is made of vines.

The evidence is not absolute, but I'd be shocked if it weren't true.

 

Yeah... I see what you mean... I have heard those arguments before and I agree the case can be made Adolin's blade belongs to the Edgedancer. However, as you stated, the evidence is not absolute and there is also the fact we have no idea what a Dustbringer spren looks like... I wouldn't be shocked if the blade ends belonging to the Dustbringers They are right next to the Edgedancers on the chart, so maybe the link is there. There is also the fact Adolin's blade is a dead one, so it may be it does not behave the same as live ones.

 

For now, until greater evidence can be brought forward, I will still keep on wishfully thinking Adolin's blade belongs to a Dustbringer , but Edgedancer would be fine as well  I am just unsure if it is the best fit for Adolin....

 

No matter what happens, if Adolin turns out being a Radiant, I think we can agree he'll end in the bottom of the chart, in the Cultivation oriented orders. Just like Renarin. Strange that both Dalinar, who is nearly pure honor, would turn out having sons who aren't

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

No matter what happens, if Adolin turns out being a Radiant, I think we can agree he'll end in the bottom of the chart, in the Cultivation oriented orders. Just like Renarin. Strange that both Dalinar, who is nearly pure honor, would turn out having sons who aren't

 

Well, remember, they did have a mother too... you know, ol' what's her name? Shshshsh I'm thinking here. Anyway, they had a mother. 

 

Since the spren themselves are actually mixes of Honor and Cultivation in different proportions, is it a surprise that someone like Dalinar, who has become so honorable, could have sons who are more like their mother in temperament/inclinations than he? 

 

Side note, I'm glad that Dalinar and Navani didn't get together initially. Otherwise we wouldn't have Jasnah, Adolin, and Renarin and we'd possibly be short 2 or 3 KR when the stuff hit the proverbial fan here. 

 

I'm inclined to think that the way a spren appears to coalesce has something to do with one or more of it's surges. Since we know that surges and their spren are related at least a little bit and that vine like spren are progression related (at least for Edgedancers), I kind of doubt that Adolin's Blade is a Dustbringer Blade. Though there is hope as you say, vine's could just be associated with more of the Cultivation side...

 

@Moogle - I always thought Ivory disappearing like that had to do with Spren's ability to "not let people see them" if they didn't want to (unless your name is Rock. I guess Ivory could teleport as his mode of transportation being an Elsecaller spren, like Syl flies through the air... 

[Moogle]

@Moogle - I always thought Ivory disappearing like that had to do with Spren's ability to "not let people see them" if they didn't want to (unless your name is Rock. I guess Ivory could teleport as his mode of transportation being an Elsecaller spren, like Syl flies through the air... 

 

I assume that Ivory can teleport, yeah. Every other spren uses their Surges to move (because they are their Surges - Truthwatcher spren are growing light, etc.). Pattern travels via a light pattern (Illumination) or sinks into and sort of transforms into an object (Transformation), Wyndle grows around, Syl plays with gravity how she wants, that sort of thing. Here's Ivory's description, incidentally:

A small figure made of inky blackness— shaped like a man in a smart, fashionable suit with a long coat— stood in her palm. He melted away into shadow as he saw Shallan.

 

Less of a 'poof' than I remembered, but still seems to me to be a use of the Transportation Surge. Ivory's shy, so I imagine he has his "hide from everyone's sight" ability on 24/7 - Shallan being able to see him implies she's become like Rock in a way and can see hidden spren.

 

If Ivory used his hiding ability, or turned it on stronger, I imagine he'd just plain disappear, not "melt into shadows". But this is just my intuition.

 

I wonder if all Knights could see the spren of adjacent orders?

 

 

@Dustbringers:

 

Their spren are Division and Abrasion, with the Essence of Spark (fire). I expect they won't float, and are made of or on fire, but can't predict much else. Their name, Dustbringers (or Releasers if you prefer), implies ashes as if from a fire or as if crushed to dust. Perhaps they are a moving crack in the ground which glows red-hot or leaves flames, meaning when they move they're like Wyndle except by breaking the material underneath them rather than growing like vines.

 

(I can predict with great probability that Skybreaker spren are comets, since they fit Division and Gravity so well and work well with the name.)

Edited October 7, 2014 by Moogle

[smokeesid]

I think reviving blade is not that easy. After reading Brandon's answers, about something supernatural pertaining to Shallan's memory and kaladin's skills. I think only personifying your blade and treating it as your friend and searching for his identity is not enough. What I could theorize about the bonding is that it starts at a very early age when you firstly attract the spren and then she knows where you are and encourages you to become well suited for that particular order. That bond could have modified personal attributes slowly, like gifting Shallan her memory and Kaladin his talent with spear and propensity towards wind and weapons and thus contributing to "something supernatural". This also explains how Kaladin could start to instinctively use lashing without having much practice with it 

 

 

So if this is "something that is going on" as Author stated, then the aforementioned actions are not enough. The person needs to be qualified enough to make a bond with the dead spren. But that also creates another possibility of being a person of appropriate disposition (proud, deadly, noble for example) may be enough. The required abilities may be rendered once the dead spren is a little more revived. Although slowly.

 

However, considering Adolin, he is already a prodigy in dueling and sword.

 

Edit

 

I felt while reading WoR that Renarin was depicted as more awkward and strange than in WoK reinforce for me the theory that the bond alters personal attributes to a certain extent.

Edited October 7, 2014 by smokeesid

[Guest]

Well, remember, they did have a mother too... you know, ol' what's her name? Shshshsh I'm thinking here. Anyway, they had a mother. 

 

Since the spren themselves are actually mixes of Honor and Cultivation in different proportions, is it a surprise that someone like Dalinar, who has become so honorable, could have sons who are more like their mother in temperament/inclinations than he?

 

We do not know much about Shshshshshsh except Navani's unflattering portrait where she called her dumb in front of Dalinar However, she did say she was a charming, sympathetic and calm person everyone liked. We also know she made the sketches for Adolin's plate and Shallan thought them to be complete, so she must have had some artistic talent.

 

Of course, the Kohlin boys must have inherited something from their mother... Adolin physically looks like her and has her friendly disposition, whereas Renarin probably fit the "calm" aspect of her personality, but there is not much to chew on there. She died when they were kids, so they were mostly raised by their father.

 

I think it strange how Renarin is place right next to the Bondsmiths, but on the Cultivation side. Knowing Bondsmiths are nearly pure Honor, we can assume Truthwatcher are nearly pure Cultivation. This implies a side of Renarin we have never seen.... as Cultivation oriented orders tend to be more ruthless... I wonder how this will play out in the next book.

 

 

Less of a 'poof' than I remembered, but still seems to me to be a use of the Transportation Surge. Ivory's shy, so I imagine he has his "hide from everyone's sight" ability on 24/7 - Shallan being able to see him implies she's become like Rock in a way and can see hidden spren.

 

If Ivory used his hiding ability, or turned it on stronger, I imagine he'd just plain disappear, not "melt into shadows". But this is just my intuition.

 

I wonder if all Knights could see the spren of adjacent orders?

 

I think it is mentioned somewhere the sprens can chose to either appear to other or stay hidden. Some had more trouble staying hidden, but all seemed to have the ability to make themselves known. In this particular scene, I have always thought Ivory, despite being shy, shown himself to Shallan, on purpose.

 

@Dustbringers:

 

Their spren are Division and Abrasion, with the Essence of Spark (fire). I expect they won't float, and are made of or on fire, but can't predict much else. Their name, Dustbringers (or Releasers if you prefer), implies ashes as if from a fire or as if crushed to dust. Perhaps they are a moving crack in the ground which glows red-hot or leaves flames, meaning when they move they're like Wyndle except by breaking the material underneath them rather than growing like vines.

 

(I can predict with great probability that Skybreaker spren are comets, since they fit Division and Gravity so well and work well with the name.)

 

I have always imagined the Dustbringers spren to be akin to firespren, much like Syl is akin to windspren... Fire is the element of the Dustbringer and Abraison suggest.... fire. Adolin once claimed he felt uncomfortable around heating fabrials as they eliminated the need for fire... Strange quote.

 

I like you suggestion... cracking lines of fire could be interpreted as winy of sorts?

 

I disagree about the comet-like spren for the Skybreaker as we already saw one of those and it was with Eshonai.... So comet must likely is the spren for the Willshapers and not the Skybreakers.

 

 

I think reviving blade is not that easy. After reading Brandon's answers, about something supernatural pertaining to Shallan's memory and kaladin's skills. I think only personifying your blade and treating it as your friend and searching for his identity is not enough. What I could theorize about the bonding is that it starts at a very early age when you firstly attract the spren and then she knows where you are and encourages you to become well suited for that particular order. That bond could have modified personal attributes slowly, like gifting Shallan her memory and Kaladin his talent with spear and propensity towards wind and weapons and thus contributing to "something supernatural". This also explains how Kaladin could start to instinctively use lashing without having much practice with it 

 

Kaladin and Shallan attracted their sprens as children, more or less. Shallan was a child, definitely and Kaladin was a teenager. However, Dalinar and Jasnah attracted theirs while being adults. The same is probably true for Renarin as I doubt his bond is an old one.

 

I do get your point that all knights have been going through the bonding process for years, it appears (except Renarin). That is interesting, but let's not forget Adolin won his blade while he was still a teenager, shortly after his 16th birthday. Basically, he turned 16, got his plate, made his Calling and got drawn into a duel for shards everyone though he would lose...... and won and then Galivar died... more or less in this order. So yeah, if his blade turns out being his spren, we can safely say he has been "bonding" with her since his teen years, same as Kal

 

I do agree the bond alters or enhances the attribute of its knight. It could be that bonds made during childhood influence more strongly their knights then those made during adulthood, but I do not think it is a required condition.

 

There are a few interesting quotes about Adolin and his blade... One where he mentioned he had to be "one with the blade like Zahel taught him to". That was when he was trying to throw it, but kept failing as he probably was too stressed out. There is another one, on his first duel, when he has THE conversation with his blade, where he mentions it was "impossible to hold a shardblade without feeling it was alive in some say as it felt like an extension of the soul"... My wordings are not accurate, but I think I have captured the sense well enough. Basically, Adolin does appear to behave differently with his blade then most... He feels it is alive, he thinks it is part of his soul or it feels like it, to him.

 

 

However, considering Adolin, he is already a prodigy in dueling and sword.

 

Adolin worked very hard to be at his current level. He started training at the age of 6, which Renarin claims is unusual. However, it could be holding his blade has helped him progress further... He did hear some weird duck word during the fight against Szeth.....

 

 

I felt while reading WoR that Renarin was depicted as more awkward and strange than in WoK reinforce for me the theory that the bond alters personal attributes to a certain extent.

 

I think Renarin was just panicking... Not really anything related to his bond... It is way too new to have affected him, I think.

[Moogle]

I disagree about the comet-like spren for the Skybreaker as we already saw one of those and it was with Eshonai.... So comet must likely is the spren for the Willshapers and not the Skybreakers.

 

I'd disagree based on general principles of spren-appearance: they're (normally, since the Stormfather breaks all the rules) a combination of their Surges. Willshapers are Cohesion (example use: placing your hand down into a block of metal and deforming it so you leave a handprint) and Transportation. Comets are fairly static in shape, and I'd expect the Willshaper spren to be morphable. They have Foil (metal) for their essence, so I'd expect some sort of cute little morphing/shifting robot for the Willshapers. Maybe some sort of golem...

 

I should make a thread for this and we'll see how many spren we can get right over the next eight books.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

I'd disagree based on general principles of spren-appearance: they're (normally, since the Stormfather breaks all the rules) a combination of their Surges. Willshapers are Cohesion (example use: placing your hand down into a block of metal and deforming it so you leave a handprint) and Transportation. Comets are fairly static in shape, and I'd expect the Willshaper spren to be morphable. They have Foil (metal) for their essence, so I'd expect some sort of cute little morphing/shifting robot for the Willshapers. Maybe some sort of golem...

 

I should make a thread for this and we'll see how many spren we can get right over the next eight books.

 

Just based thematically/visually, comets to me evoke Dustbringers a bit more than Skybreakers. It may just be semantics, but when a meteor/comet hits something, it usually vaporizes large parts of it and puts a large dust cloud into the sky... I know there is Skybreaker's ability to drop from the sky like a comet and vaporize things, but I can't get over the correlation between the dust cloud that erupts from a meteor strike and "bringing the dust". 

 

I think people focus on Eshonai's "adventurous" nature for exploration, look at the "adventrous" Willshapers and assume that since the only unspoken for orders are Dustbringers and Willshapers, she will be a Willshaper. Then they look at the Comet spren around her and assume that is a Willshaper spren. If she is going to break away from Stormform and become an actual KR, I'm going to argue based on the spren near her and my interpretation of the comet-like spren, she'll be a Dustbringer. 

 

OTOH, Brandon could be throwing us all for a loop with the whole Szeth joining the "skybreakers" thing. Maybe Eshonai breaks from stormform as a result of her fall to the Chasm bottom, and in book 3 we see her take her place as the rightful first Skybreaker (hence comet spren), and Szeth is just a red herring.

[Moogle]

I think people focus on Eshonai's "adventurous" nature for exploration, look at the "adventrous" Willshapers and assume that since the only unspoken for orders are Dustbringers and Willshapers, she will be a Willshaper. Then they look at the Comet spren around her and assume that is a Willshaper spren. If she is going to break away from Stormform and become an actual KR, I'm going to argue based on the spren near her and my interpretation of the comet-like spren, she'll be a Dustbringer.

 

Interesting idea. I'm not sure I agree or disagree at this point, I'll definitely need to think more on it.

 

Also, something I forgot to mention: Jasnah visits the 'highspren' for information, and Syl all-but-confirms they are the Skybreaker spren. If I was going to think of a name for cometspren, 'highspren' isn't a half-bad one.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Moogle

[Guest]

Just based thematically/visually, comets to me evoke Dustbringers a bit more than Skybreakers. It may just be semantics, but when a meteor/comet hits something, it usually vaporizes large parts of it and puts a large dust cloud into the sky... I know there is Skybreaker's ability to drop from the sky like a comet and vaporize things, but I can't get over the correlation between the dust cloud that erupts from a meteor strike and "bringing the dust". 

 

I think people focus on Eshonai's "adventurous" nature for exploration, look at the "adventrous" Willshapers and assume that since the only unspoken for orders are Dustbringers and Willshapers, she will be a Willshaper. Then they look at the Comet spren around her and assume that is a Willshaper spren. If she is going to break away from Stormform and become an actual KR, I'm going to argue based on the spren near her and my interpretation of the comet-like spren, she'll be a Dustbringer. 

 

OTOH, Brandon could be throwing us all for a loop with the whole Szeth joining the "skybreakers" thing. Maybe Eshonai breaks from stormform as a result of her fall to the Chasm bottom, and in book 3 we see her take her place as the rightful first Skybreaker (hence comet spren), and Szeth is just a red herring.

 

It's not just her "adventurous" nature... Eshonai is very determined: when she sets her mind to a task, she won't bulged until she gets it done and to me, this screams Willshaper. Dustbringer's brave and obedient just do not seem to fit all too well with Eshonai... not that she is not brave, but I wouldn't say it is her defining nature. She struck me more as resolute.

 

I think it is difficult to determine one proto-radiant orders based on the appearance of the spren... I tend to look at the overall personality and strength of an individual to figure out which order they'll end up in, which is why I have always put Eshonai with the Willshaper, Szeth with the Skybreakers and Adolin with the Dustbringers.

 

Like the idea of the red hearing,... However, Eshonai does not strike me as the kind of persona who would attract a highspren... She has never express one slight concern about laws or rules, quite to the contrary. A ruthless disobedient order such as the Willshapers would suit her better, I think.

[Iarvos]

I'm in the camp of Adolin being an Edgedancer. Adolin protecting the whore in the first book matches best with either the Windbreakers (protection) or the Edgedancers (caring about those who are forgotten) - and I doubt that the Brandon wrote that scene as a throwaway scene. In conjunction with his care for his blade, not just talking to it, but honoring it and remembering it, I believe an Edgedancer fits very well with Adolin.

In conclusion, it would make sense for an Edgedancer to be the first to heal their blade, as healing and caring characterize Edgedancers, and those two characteristics would be ideal for restoring a shardblade.

 

Edit: Leaving 'Windbreakers', but I meant Windrunners.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Iarvos

[Guest]

I'm in the camp of Adolin being an Edgedancer. Adolin protecting the whore in the first book matches best with either the Windbreakers (protection) or the Edgedancers (caring about those who are forgotten) - and I doubt that the Brandon wrote that scene as a throwaway scene. In conjunction with his care for his blade, not just talking to it, but honoring it and remembering it, I believe an Edgedancer fits very well with Adolin.

In conclusion, it would make sense for an Edgedancer to be the first to heal their blade, as healing and caring characterize Edgedancers, and those two characteristics would be ideal for restoring a shardblade.

 

Edit: Leaving 'Windbreakers', but I meant Windrunners.

 

Protecting the whore is not a wasted scene, I do agree... It is one of those scenes where Adolin does the unexpected for no other reasons then it is the right thing to do. The more the story progress, the more extreme he gets in these... First, he tells his father about his supposed madness, then he rescued the prostitute, he beats down another shardbearer in a duel, he sits in prison with Kaladin, he gives shards to a darkeye, he befriends a lowly darkeye and finally he kills a known traitor threatening to harm his father...

 

Bottom line is I do not think Adolin rescued the prostitute because he felt he should protect her. I think he did because he felt it was the right thing to do. Remember when Kaladin walks out of prison and ask Adolin why he did it? Adolin merely respond it was not right to have him sit in there. Again. Right.

 

I don't see Adolin as a protector, but more as a judge of morality. He has these feelings about people: he knows or senses when something is off with them. He can't yet decipher them, but it is there. He is very perceptive and he has yet to be wrong about someone.

 

Sure he repetitively wants to protect Dalinar and Renarin, but I see it as deep love more than protectiveness ala Kaladin. Everything about Adolin is about emotions, strong ones. I do not see honoring his blade as "remembering" but as care, love, again emotions.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

Protecting the whore is not a wasted scene, I do agree... It is one of those scenes where Adolin does the unexpected for no other reasons then it is the right thing to do. The more the story progress, the more extreme he gets in these... First, he tells his father about his supposed madness, then he rescued the prostitute, he beats down another shardbearer in a duel, he sits in prison with Kaladin, he gives shards to a darkeye, he befriends a lowly darkeye and finally he kills a known traitor threatening to harm his father...

 

Bottom line is I do not think Adolin rescued the prostitute because he felt he should protect her. I think he did because he felt it was the right thing to do. Remember when Kaladin walks out of prison and ask Adolin why he did it? Adolin merely respond it was not right to have him sit in there. Again. Right.

 

I don't see Adolin as a protector, but more as a judge of morality. He has these feelings about people: he knows or senses when something is off with them. He can't yet decipher them, but it is there. He is very perceptive and he has yet to be wrong about someone.

 

Sure he repetitively wants to protect Dalinar and Renarin, but I see it as deep love more than protectiveness ala Kaladin. Everything about Adolin is about emotions, strong ones. I do not see honoring his blade as "remembering" but as care, love, again emotions.

 

This, to me, is a perfect summation of Adolin and his character to date. Take an Upvote!

 

You're very right about his perceptiveness, he has feelings about people and he hasn't shown himself wrong yet. 

[Guest]

This, to me, is a perfect summation of Adolin and his character to date. Take an Upvote!

 

You're very right about his perceptiveness, he has feelings about people and he hasn't shown himself wrong yet. 

 

Thanks

 

His feelings are very vague.... He hates Sadeas, but he can't really state why... He just does not trust him, but he can't explain it. He knows something is off with Kaladin, but he has no idea what, so he is fishing. He suspected Amaram was up to something as he felt wrong too... He does not need any proof or argument, he just knows it... that marks him as a very intuitive person with a strong emotional intelligence. It also makes him very impulsive as he often acts on his feelings.

 

He has yet to figure out how to use this skill and more importantly how to make people believe him. So far, everyone has dismissed those feelings of his.

 

To me this is the constant with Adolin's character: a strong sense of what is right or wrong based on intuition and feelings. Everything he does can be linked to it.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

I'm in the camp of Adolin being an Edgedancer. Adolin protecting the whore in the first book matches best with either the Windbreakers (protection) or the Edgedancers (caring about those who are forgotten) - and I doubt that the Brandon wrote that scene as a throwaway scene. In conjunction with his care for his blade, not just talking to it, but honoring it and remembering it, I believe an Edgedancer fits very well with Adolin.

I have to disagree, Adolin doesn't seem to have much chance of becoming an Edgedancer. Their attributes are loving and healing and their oath is about remembering the forgotten. The Edgedancers are the kind of people to care for the wellbeing of everyone. They heal, so it's obvious to me that they would be against hurting others in any way. It's not the kind of order that would accept Adolin killing Sadeas.  Brandon confirmed that Willshapers wouldn't mind and I believe that Dustbringers wouldn't as well, but Edgedancers too much strike me as those who wouldn't accept a murderer.

 

Personally I see Adolin as our Dustbringer (if he does become a Radiant at all).

[Guest]

I have to disagree, Adolin doesn't seem to have much chance of becoming an Edgedancer. Their attributes are loving and healing and their oath is about remembering the forgotten. The Edgedancers are the kind of people to care for the wellbeing of everyone. They heal, so it's obvious to me that they would be against hurting others in any way. It's not the kind of order that would accept Adolin killing Sadeas.  Brandon confirmed that Willshapers wouldn't mind and I believe that Dustbringers wouldn't as well, but Edgedancers too much strike me as those who wouldn't accept a murderer.

 

Personally I see Adolin as our Dustbringer (if he does become a Radiant at all).

 

We have explicit words from Brandon stating both Willshapers and Dustbringers would be fine with what Adolin did. However, we also know Elsecallers and Lightweavers do not mind murder as both Jasnah and Shallan have killed people: one to teach a ruthless lesson and one to protect herself and her family. I will theorize right now all orders linked to Cultivation are most likely to accept murder/assassination then the orders linked to Honor, as long as the deed does not directly against one of the oaths.

 

I would thus think Edgedancers would accept murder. We must not forget Edgedancers are not just healers, they are deadly yet graceful warriors and are counted amongst the most feared orders... Adolin would not completely be out of his place with them, especially considering he has been carrying his mother's locket with him for a decade as a keep stake and a good luck charm. Adolin is also very caring for his family and has always put their needs before his. We could argue he murdered Sadeas out of love for Dalinar as his sole motivation for this deed was to protect his father. He did not do it out of vengeance or for himself, but for the Kohlins in general and Dalinar in particular. That could fit within the "loving" attribute.

 

However, I do think he is a much better fit for the Dustbringers: the surge of Progression looking quite out of Adolin's specific talents.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

 I will theorize right now all orders linked to Cultivation are most likely to accept murder/assassination then the orders linked to Honor, as long as the deed does not directly against one of the oaths.

 

I would thus think Edgedancers would accept murder. We must not forget Edgedancers are not just healers, they are deadly yet graceful warriors and are counted amongst the most feared orders...

Well, I didn't look at it this way... It makes sense

 

But I still can't see Adolin as an Edgedancer in general. Besides, we already have our Edgedancer (Lift) and I gat the vibe that at least in the first 5 books we will see only one member of each order.

[Guest]

Well, I didn't look at it this way... It makes sense

 

But I still can't see Adolin as an Edgedancer in general. Besides, we already have our Edgedancer (Lift) and I gat the vibe that at least in the first 5 books we will see only one member of each order.

 

I get the same vibe.

 

However, there is a strong case to be made for Adolin's Blade belonging to a former Edgedancer and since the "Adolin will revive his shardblade" is a very popular theory....... We had to add one and one together.

 

There is also the matter the Dustbringers are the one order where we do not have an obvious candidate for. Adolin is one, but there is a lot of fan wishful thinking being put into it as he has not been foreshadowed to join any of the orders, not yet anyway, whereas we have individuals being primed for all of the other orders.

[Aleksiel]

Adolin is refined, he cares a great deal about appearance, nice clothes, looking good... That's an Edgedancer vibe right there. Remembering his mother when many have forgotten about her (I'm looking at you, Dalinar). Adolin only needs to care some more about the common folk, he does in general, but not on Edgedancer level, and I think he has a very good chance to make get himself a place in the Order.

[Guest]

Adolin is refined, he cares a great deal about appearance, nice clothes, looking good... That's an Edgedancer vibe right there. Remembering his mother when many have forgotten about her (I'm looking at you, Dalinar). Adolin only needs to care some more about the common folk, he does in general, but not on Edgedancer level, and I think he has a very good chance to make get himself a place in the Order.

 

Adolin already cares about the common folks a lot more then your average lighteye...

 

In WoK, Dalinar comments on how he thought Adolin was being too familiar with the soldiers (and how the soldiers liked him in return) and Adolin is the one being the most distressed over the sight of the 50 soldiers needing to die so that king Elhokar could have his sport. This scene is rather interesting as it is one of the first where we see Adolin.  Shortly before, as they were preparing for the hunt, Adolin complains the whole time on how he hates hunting (it is dishonorable) and how he would rather lunged in nice clothing drinking wine then being stuck in his bulky armor baking in the sun. He looked with envy the other lighteyes who were carelessly enjoying themselves on litters    However, after the fight, he does not care about lounging nor drinking wine anymore as he has to take care of the aftermath of the battle: men had died and he just couldn't see himself doing to petty things in such circumstances. Bottom line is care/duty past before he personal enjoyment even early on in WoK.

 

Also, the death of 6000 of his men at the Tower is weighing heavily on him and he has a harder time letting it go then Dalinar or anyone else for that matter.

 

He also sees it as his duty to open up the enemy ranks for his soldiers on the battlefield, a tactic not used by many other Highprinces. He has never been shown to treat any men with disrespect, no matter their ranks.

 

He may also be one of the only lighteye in the history of Roshar to genuinely give out shards to a darkeye.

 

However, he is a pure product of the Alethi society and he still is heavily influenced by the popular opinion. He still thinks every men has its place and that of a darkeye is below him. I guess this is where he needs to grow, but despite distrusting Kaladin, he was able to see his worth way before Kal was able to do the same.

 

His mother's necklace is something else... We know it is purely sentimental, but it does bear a strange connection to the Edgedancer's first oath. In WoK, Dalinar comments over the fact he has not forbidden the boys to recall things about their mother, but sadly he never said if one boy liked to talk about her more the other.... It would have been telling if he had.

 

All in all, Edgedancer is not a bad Order for him, but still not the best match, I think. I guess I could see it happening, but it still does not solve the fact I just do not see Adolin making plants grow or performing healing   These things just look too much out of character... Dustbringers are right next to Edgedancers on the chart, it could be they were dandies as well and both Order liked to party together  

[Aleksiel]

.....

 

And let's not forget the scene with that girl in Sadeas's camp. Adolin does care for the common people a lot more than the average lighteyes, who really don't give a damnation. However, I think he's yet to care like an Edgedancer about the people. Granted, we don't know much about Orders and we can only guess where he'd fit. Before WoR I couldn't have guessed Dalinar would end up a Bondsmith... For now both Edgedancers and Dustbringers seem good match for him. However, I prefer him to revive his Blade rather than attract a spren, so that points in favor of Edgedancers.

 

On a different note, I really think we need abbreviations for these, because typing the Order's names is storming long... So ED for Edgedancer? DB for Dustbringer? But that's not as cool... I'm in a dilemma.