Larkins and Breath

[Mordray he/him]

So this should be fairly simple... but probably isn't.

Can a Larkin forcibly drain breath from someone holding breath?

[Calderis he/him]

Larkin feed on investiture, period. 

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Questioner

If you were a Leecher, could you destroy a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm going to RAFO that for now, let's just say that it would be incredibly difficult if it were possible, and I'm not going to even say if it is. But that kind of power... 

Questioner

Let's just say they were burning duralumin as well.

Brandon Sanderson

Let's just say that the Investiture in a Shardblade is much greater than your average Allomancer, but... This type of thing is not unheard of in the Cosmere. The larkin, the Leechers, and Nightblood all have a similar sort of thing going on. Destroying a Shardblade would be really hard. And Investiture resists other forms of Investiture, so.

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Questioner

He's asking if a larkin is capable of pushing Stormlight into someone as well as drawing it out.

Brandon Sanderson

Ahhh, that's an excellent question. They actually feed on Investiture. Like some other people and things that you've seen. *laughter*

Questioner

So is that a yes or no?

Brandon Sanderson

That is more of a no than a yes. *laughter*

Questioner

So that's highly unlikely that that's how Szeth was resurrected.

Brandon Sanderson

That is correct... You did see how Szeth came back foreshadowed earlier in the books. So if you watch for it, the means by which that happens is in there.

Questioner

How early? *laughter*

Footnote: Szeth is resurrected by of a fabrial manipulating Progression, which can be seen in one of Dalinar's visions in The Way of Kings.
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As to whether they could forcibly take it... I don't think it would be an issue. Stormlight being held is keyed to the user, it's the same reason that Stormlight being used by Shardplate would be hard to draw in, and yet a Larkin could feed off that, so I don't see why breath would be treated any differently. 

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Starfishpr1me

Why do Szeth and Kaladin not suck all the stormlight out of the gems that power shardplate when they fight people wearing plate, thus rendering the plate useless? Is there something different about the gems that power plate that would make this impossible?

Brandon Sanderson

So, in the magic of Stormlight (and across several of my books) there's are some underlying principles. One is that the power of the magic (which we call investiture) is difficult to manipulate when it is claimed by someone, or something, else.

You can imagine that magic in the process of being used, like the energy powering plate, works like a kind of negative charge to your own magic. Trying to lash someone in Plate will be very difficult, as the stormlight in the plate is going to resist your attempts to push through it and get at the person. Likewise, that power in the plate is actively being used--draining it is difficult.

If you can rip off a piece of the plate, disconnecting it from the system, then you can get at those gemstones and drain them much more easily. But tucked away inside, they're both shielded and being actively used by the armor. They would be virtually impossible to drain.

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FirstRyder

Could Aluminum be used to protect a Surgebinder from a larkin?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

havoc_mayhem

Would a larkin be able to steal Stormlight from a surgebinder wearing Shardplate? Any comments on whether Shardplate or aluminium would be more effective protection?

Brandon Sanderson

Getting through both would be relatively equal--with the problem being that Shardplate is powered by investiture, which the larkin could feed on. So aluminum is better in that specific case.

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[Xtafa]

It would be speculation for now, but really it depends on whether or not they can drain investiture in general or only when its in the form of stormlight.  

[Xtafa]

@Calderis

Beautiful response.

[The Watcher]

Better question would be could a Larkin take Breath from someone without them noticing. That would be interesting, cause then the Trader girl from the interludes who has a Larkin could steal people’s stormlight!

[Dunkum he/him]

18 hours ago, Calderis said:

As to whether they could forcibly take it... I don't think it would be an issue. Stormlight being held is keyed to the user, it's the same reason that Stormlight being used by Shardplate would be hard to draw in, and yet a Larkin could feed off that, so I don't see why breath would be treated any differently.

Breath is stickier than other types of investiture though.  I can't find the WoB on that, though I know we have one, but it is part of the reason why it doesn't just leak out of people like stormlight does.  So a Larkin could probably feed on breath in theory, but it seems like it would be harder to extract than say stormlight

[Xtafa]

But! Imagine the Larkin eating Mist

 

[Mordray he/him]

I'm asking because of the fifth heightening... ie the one where one becomes immortal. Seems kind of a cheap thing that after making it to that point... perhaps even having that state being the end goal... only to have some random critter be capable of taking it from you. Which could well result in death via rapid aging.

[happyman he/him]

On 5/24/2018 at 8:30 PM, Mordray said:

I'm asking because of the fifth heightening... ie the one where one becomes immortal. Seems kind of a cheap thing that after making it to that point... perhaps even having that state being the end goal... only to have some random critter be capable of taking it from you. Which could well result in death via rapid aging.

That's one thing about breath immortality that's really nice, especially compared to atium immortality:  It's actually stopping your body from aging.  If you lived until the age of, say, 25 before you got any breaths, and then got catapulted straight to the fifth heightening, lived for 2000 years, and then had it all stripped away from you somehow, you'd suddenly begin aging as though you were 25 again.  Your spiritual connections and what-not would presumably still "know" how old you actually were, but they would also "know" that you got that old through having an absurd amount of breath for 2000 years, and that you "should" be aging as though you had been in perfect health for 2000 years.  It's great.

[Calderis he/him]

22 minutes ago, happyman said:

That's one thing about breath immortality that's really nice, especially compared to atium immortality:  It's actually stopping your body from aging.  If you lived until the age of, say, 25 before you got any breaths, and then got catapulted straight to the fifth heightening, lived for 2000 years, and then had it all stripped away from you somehow, you'd suddenly begin aging as though you were 25 again.  Your spiritual connections and what-not would presumably still "know" how old you actually were, but they would also "know" that you got that old through having an absurd amount of breath for 2000 years, and that you "should" be aging as though you had been in perfect health for 2000 years.  It's great.

That's what I believed to, but a WoB that @hoiditthroughthegrapevine asked on my behalf in a signed book has called that into question

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Hoiditthroughthegrapevine

If a person held enough breath to attain the 5th heightening, lived for a thousand years, and then sold all but their initial breath, would their spiritual age force them to rapidly age as we saw with Rashek, or would they resume natural aging from the point at which they ceased?

Brandon Sanderson (written)

I think they would rapidly age.

But I'm not ready to say 100%.

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[Faceless Mist-Wraith he/him]

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Hoiditthroughthegrapevine

If a person held enough breath to attain the 5th heightening, lived for a thousand years, and then sold all but their initial breath, would their spiritual age force them to rapidly age as we saw with Rashek, or would they resume natural aging from the point at which they ceased?

Brandon Sanderson (written)

I think they would rapidly age.

But I'm not ready to say 100%.

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@Calderis I always thought that it was more like a freeze frame too. If it did force them to suddenly age in order to catch up, wouldn't Vasher not be able to become a drab, since he would suddenly age after giving up the breaths? Or would it different for him since he's Returned?

(Oathbringer spoiler)

Spoiler

There's also Vivenna. I'm not sure how long Oathbringer is after Warbreaker, but I got the impression it was a fairly big time jump. She didn't appear to show signs of having an excess of breaths, though she might be suppressing them somehow. It seems like if there were sudden aging affects, she would know/show signs.

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Faceless Mist-Wraith

[Calderis he/him]

@Faceless Mist-Wraith they can suppress their divine breath... But it is literally what gives them life. The visible effects may be gone, but it still effects them. The end of this annotation is very telling. 

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Brandon Sanderson

Denth's Speed

Yes, Denth is inhumanly fast. He's a Returned, after all, and has all of the physical enhancements that come with that. Even when he's chosen not to manifest most of them, he's still got an edge, just like Vasher does.

How do they hide that they're Returned? Well, it comes down to mastery of their ability to change their appearance. They can't shape-shift entirely; they can just alter some things about their appearance. They can change their weight, their hair color, and things like that at will. Vasher doesn't do this often, but Denth has been known to use it as a disguise. The problem, after you do this once and someone realizes it, your nature becomes very suspect.

They have learned to suppress their divine Breath. This allows them to hide, but they must be careful never to give away all of their Breath. Denth has been a Drab before—he's not completely lying—but never for longer than a few days. And his divine Breath is always there, suppressed. So he doesn't know what it's like to be a true Drab, which is why in this chapter he says he doesn't think it changes you that much. He's never felt it.

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[LadyLameness]

On 24/05/2018 at 2:14 PM, The Watcher said:

Better question would be could a Larkin take Breath from someone without them noticing.

I doubt it could be done without them noticing. Or, the only point I could see that happening is if the person had multiple Breath's but hadn't yet reached the First Heightening. There seems to be a fairly noticeable difference when someone loses all their Breath and become's drab and the First Heightening allows for you to know the number of Breath's someone else is carrying and presumably how many you have as well. 

I wonder if a Larkin could discriminate between Breath and Divine Breath. Would all additional Breath's have to be stolen before a Divine Breath could be stolen? Or could it straight up go round killing Returned?