Cross system investiture.

[Emerald101 he/him]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

The heightening threshold numbers are averages, because breaths vary in strength. 

I think a "partial breath" is likely, as even a single breath isn't consistent 

I'm aware that the size isn't perfectly consistent - hence "roughly". The thing is that an object's "closeness" to human form logically shouldn't change incrementally. It should be continuous, yet the breaths required does change incrementally, because a breath is a distinct piece of investiture and doesn't divide easily - at least that's how I see it. Similarly, the amount of stormlight required to lash an object of a certain mass (or whatever else has an effect) should form a continuous curve. So to me it makes more sense that it would round up to nearest breath, just like how breaths do when awakening.

The key characteristic I was thinking of wasn't the size of a breath but the fact that one breath is a discreet piece of investiture distinct from other breaths. Essentially what I'm saying is that the incremental nature is a consequence of the nature of breaths, not the system of awakening.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Emerald101
Clarity

[Calderis he/him]

@Emerald101 I understand what your saying and I'll agree to disagree. 

In Awakening, I think it would round off, because the system is designed to use those predefined packets, but surgebinding isn't. It uses Stormlight like a propane tank. 

Maybe that's the problem with trying to awaken with Stormlight, the system is reaching for those packets and can't find any segmentation. 

[Oversleep]

Also, Vasher made the priest's daughter do something to herself and Vivenna noticed that her Breath diminished. This points to me in favor of Breath being splittable.

[Fezzik]

As an aside, @Oversleepand @Calderis, your ranks are gerontarch and most ancient... isn't a gerontarch by definition most ancient?

[Oversleep]

17 minutes ago, john203 said:

As an aside, @Oversleepand @Calderis, your ranks are gerontarch and most ancient... isn't a gerontarch by definition most ancient?

No. Gerontarch is a leader of Sela Tales, while Most Ancient is the king of Babatharnam.

[Calderis he/him]

18 minutes ago, john203 said:

As an aside, @Oversleepand @Calderis, your ranks are gerontarch and most ancient... isn't a gerontarch by definition most ancient?

Gerontarch is a "leader in Sela Tales" (which I only know because of the coppermind), the Most Ancient is the ruler of Babatharnum. 

Edit: Ninja'd 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Calderis

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

On 4 augusti 2017 at 3:27 PM, Calderis said:

turning a pig into a functioning combustion engine

Only on the 17th Shard.

[Calderis he/him]

5 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Only on the 17th Shard.

If we can have porridge bricks, we can have engine pigs. 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

50 minutes ago, Calderis said:

If we can have porridge bricks, we can have engine pigs. 

Of course! Question is, what would happen if you spiked the engine pig with a Nahel bond from an Elsecaller...?

[Calderis he/him]

1 minute ago, FiveLate said:

Now, I wonder if that light would have to have been generated after Autonomy invested.  Ie if a star was 1000 light years from Taldain, but Autonomy only invested 900 years before, would it work or not since the Spiritual Realm is frictionless and timeless.....

If the light itself is invested, it would require light from after investment. 

To gain access otherwise you'd need a direct connection through the spiritual realm, and not just the physical manifestation of light. 

[Calderis he/him]

1 minute ago, FiveLate said:

But if the light is acting like a key, like the metals on Scadrial, it might not.

If that's true though, any starlight should work, because it would rely on the wavelength of light. 

[Emerald101 he/him]

8 minutes ago, Calderis said:

If that's true though, any starlight should work, because it would rely on the wavelength of light. 

Unless the investiture is somehow attached to the photons from that particular star when they're generated.

[Calderis he/him]

True on both counts. I was oversimplifying it. 

With the lichen as an intermediary force between the investiture and the magic, I just feel like an additional gate is unnecessary. 

[AbsentKeeper he/him]

I have no actual proof for it, but if any investiture can charge the lichen on Taldain, it makes sense to me that it must have metabolic systems opposite to what Lift has, it can turn raw investiture into some form of chemical energy. Then, as someone else said, Sand Mastery would just be the abliltiy to form a temporary connection to the lichen, feeding it water to release the investiture in the way they want. Is the water itself acting as a focus for autonomy's power? Is there some kind of spren esque symbiotic bond between the masters and the lichen? Do they provide thier own innate investiture as a catalyst?

Sand Mastery could turn out to be very very important to the cosmere, on a scientific level, if it does turn out that it's different from almost every other magic this way.

And if the Sand masters weren't confusing enough, anyone wanna try to explain to me how slatrification works?

Edit: This doesn't have much to do with cross system investiture, per say, but how can we understand how it would work in other systems if we don't know how it works at all?

Edited August 8, 2017 by Cowmanthethird

[Calderis he/him]

4 minutes ago, Cowmanthethird said:

And if the Sand masters weren't confusing enough, anyone wanna try to explain to me how slatrification works?

It seems like it's highly specialized soulcasting essentially. The Lichen release the investiture into the sand, rather then outward to be used for locomotive force, and cause a transformation. 

It's a completely different power than controlling the sand. 

Slatrification had always made me think there's far more to Sand mastery than has been shown. Because those are fundamentally different powers. They only test for the locomotive ability, and some sand masters can Slatrify. 

I wonder if there are people who, because they are never tested, and never train, could Slatrify but not have the locomotive ability of traditional mastery. 

If so, there could be additional functions that they've never bothered to test for and they just don't know about. 

[AbsentKeeper he/him]

2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

It seems like it's highly specialized soulcasting essentially. The Lichen release the investiture into the sand, rather then outward to be used for locomotive force, and cause a transformation. 

It's a completely different power than controlling the sand. 

Slatrification had always made me think there's far more to Sand mastery than has been shown. Because those are fundamentally different powers. They only test for the locomotive ability, and some sand masters can Slatrify. 

I wonder if there are people who, because they are never tested, and never train, could Slatrify but not have the locomotive ability of traditional mastery. 

If so, there could be additional functions that they've never bothered to test for and they just don't know about. 

 I never thought of it as a specialized soul casting, that makes a lot of sense. This is essentially what I was implying though, slatrification is extremely different from the other abilities of sand mastery, and is even described that way in world. There's so much that we don't know, and probably no-one does, about investiture on Taladain.

I was leaning towards the water itself being the focus, acting as a 'key' like metals do for alomancy, being consumed in the process. It seems to fit with traditional sand mastery, but not with slatrification, as water is produced in this case.

Is it possible we are dealing with two whole different systems, with two different focuses? Rather than something more like two different metals in alomancy, or two different surges in surgebinding?

The only alternative I see, is that they share the sand itself as a focus, but then why is water consumed, if its not being used as a focus or converted into investiture? Is the lichen some kind of parasite, sucking in water and investiture from everything nearby to stay alive?

Sorry for the long mess of questions and speculations, we don't know nearly enough about this world yet though.

[+Extesian he/him]

@Calderis, @Cowmanthethird here is one of my favorite WoBs from this year, courtesy of @strumienpola at the Warsaw signing.

Quote

Q: Can you slatrify sand into other liquids?
A: *thinks a moment* I admit that slatrification is one aspect of Sand Mastery I'm the least fond of, because it doesn't mesh well with the rest of Cosmere magic. The comicbook writers are working with my original script, with very minor changes, but if we ever release White Sand in print - which we might do - I might end up changing it. So - I won't answer that, because I'm not yet sure if slatifying into water is possible. *laughs* You can think of the comic as sort of in-universe story about those characters, then.

 It's one of my favorites because slatrification never made any storming sense

[Calderis he/him]

11 minutes ago, Extesian said:

@Calderis, @Cowmanthethird here is one of my favorite WoBs from this year, courtesy of @strumienpola at the Warsaw signing.

 It's one of my favorites because slatrification never made any storming sense

That would be one hell of a recon.... Which as much as I approve of the purpose, makes me uneasy after WoR

[+Extesian he/him]

9 minutes ago, Calderis said:

That would be one hell of a recon.... Which as much as I approve of the purpose, makes me uneasy after WoR

Yeah there was some debate about this at the time. I like it if he can't make a realmatically sensible mechanism. I care more about the Cosmere operating consistently. But it would raise concerns about what is canon, without him relegating the graphic novel to semi-canon (canon unless he says otherwise). At the very least I'm happy he acknowledges slatrification doesn't make much sense and at the least it may make him come up with a workable explanation for it later (through a Khriss' reference or something).

[AbsentKeeper he/him]

14 hours ago, Extesian said:

 I like it if he can't make a realmatically sensible mechanism. I care more about the Cosmere operating consistently.

I had never seen this WoB before, but I agree with what you have to say about it.

On the other hand, with @Calderis's explanation of it working like a specialized soul casting, I don't think it would be that hard to make it work. They'll both probably be related to some kind of Yolish base form of transformation magic, if it ends up sticking around.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Cowmanthethird
Clarification

[Erandeni he/him]

I found anothe Wob about stormlight breath equivalence:

Quote

 

Leinton

Can Breath be used to power Surgebinding?

Brandon Sanderson

They are very similar Investitures, and most of the magics can be powered with the other magics if you are capable of making that happen.

Leinton

What would happen to the Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

The Breath would be consumed in the same way that Stormlight is. A renewing resource, much like Atium is.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1086#23

Quote

A renewing resource, much like Atium is.

What that mean? I don't get it

 

[Calderis he/him]

51 minutes ago, Idealistic said:

What that mean? I don't get it

As far as I understand it, just that it would be consumed like Stormlight is, and then return to Endowment's system to go out to a new Nalthian at birth.  

Atium worked the same way. It was burned by Mistborn/seers, and would return to the system to regrow in the Pits.