5/16/16 - krystalynn03 - Roamwald: C14-16 (4774)

[krystalynn03 she/her]

Hey guys!

 

• Always the pacing--what parts moved well for you, what dragged, how does it feel in the overall?
• Did the character interactions work for you?
• Was the scenery imagery clear enough?
• What worked for you?
• What didn't work for you?

 

Thanks!

[Mandamon he/him]

pg 2: I like the giant-sized objects.  The log bridge would be a footbridge for a creek and the 20 foot tall wall a garden gate.

 

pg 8: Roamwald is moving around a cave. How big is this cave?  For a 60 ft tall person to move around comfortably in a space, it would have to be 70+ feet tall at least, and probably higher and with a vent to let the smoke go somewhere. The space would need to be at the very least a cube 60 feet on a side, at that would be extremely cramped.  Just wondering how big this mountain is and how much of it Roamwald hollowed out.

You get into this more later, which helps place the size of the cavern

 

I really like finally getting to learn some of the Westermann culture.  I do find it a bit odd that they live a similar lifetime to us.  Generally larger things live longer, but no reason to say it can't be different.  

 

On the snatchers, this helps to put the valley in perspective.  I would think that humans in the larger world would be aware of the distinction between Westermann and Snatcher.  If the people in the valley are all ignorant of Westermanns, then I assume they all came from a sheltered area or were all young when they escaped together.

 

I thought the pacing was fine in this section--it's a learning chapter, but Jennie has a something else to do in fixing up Bandit, so it doesn't seem like an info dump.

 

I really like Jennie's interaction with Roamwald.  Now that we have a better idea of his social stature, it's easier to see how these two get along.  Interested to see if Roamwald is a loaner, or if there are others of his kind around.

 

The biggest problem I had with the scenery is explained above.  I think you do answer my questions later on, when you describe how Roamwald is set up later on, but I still struggle with reconciling two classes of people where one is 10x the size of the other.  It would seem to be hard for the larger species to see or interact with the smaller without hurting them and very easy for the smaller species to spot and avoid the larger.  I do wonder a bit how Roamwald realistically takes care of a dog without hurting it.  There's a reason we keep hamsters and mice in cages when we're not holding them--otherwise they might get squished.

 

As always, looking forward to more.

[Kammererite]

So I liked this. Particularly I like that there is an entire civilisation of Westermann, with snatchers a kind of slaver. I agree with Mandaemon that the fact that humans do not now about Westermann vs snatchers very odd. Their must be some physical divide from the westermannish homeland that keeps humans from realizing there are more big people then just those that raid there homes and take people.

 

Cave formation. With stalactites and stalagmites i'm imagining a limestone cavern..probably a some sort of karst system. however you don't get mountains made of just limestone (if i remember mountain building 101). To that point you need water to form Karsts and you wouldn't have much permeate into the mountains.  That said if  the cave is more westermann-made that could explain some aspects but i feel stalactites/stalagmites might be out if this is the case. 

But this is way beyond the point of this book so it not a big issue.

 

Character interactions: I thought that both characters were a little over trusting of each other at first, but after reflection i was fine with it. 

 

Pacing: I liked it. I went ch 10 - the end of this no stops, and it all flowed well. 

 

Imagry was clear for me, and nothing didn't work (except the humans ignorance of Westermann). 

 

Look forward to more

Edited May 19, 2016 by Kammererite

[rdpulfer he/him]

- Very curious now who - or what - the bridge is for.

 

- I chuckled when she grumbled "Like I'll ever chase a sheep again." I like that it shows the character regretting her previous actions.

 

- I really like the description of how the air moved with Roamwald as well as the sound his clothes makes. Very good non-visual descriptions.

 

- I also really like the interaction between Jeannie and Roamwald. It's very endearing, and really fits with the story. 

 

- I liked this section a lot. I'm really curious what the fallout from Jeannie's absence is. 

[krystalynn03 she/her]

 

pg 2: I like the giant-sized objects.  The log bridge would be a footbridge for a creek and the 20 foot tall wall a garden gate.

 

It has no bearing on the plot whatsoever but the bridge is actually for the sheep when Roamwald herd them down to that flat area (meadow) Jennie crossed earlier. I'm glad the descriptions worked for you, though. I wasn't sure if I was getting the bridge/gate right or if they were just slowing down the narrative.

 

pg 8: Roamwald is moving around a cave. How big is this cave?  For a 60 ft tall person to move around comfortably in a space, it would have to be 70+ feet tall at least, and probably higher and with a vent to let the smoke go somewhere. The space would need to be at the very least a cube 60 feet on a side, at that would be extremely cramped.  Just wondering how big this mountain is and how much of it Roamwald hollowed out.

You get into this more later, which helps place the size of the cavern

 

I guess I'm asking for a little bit of hand wavium there, not giving real specficif dimensions. In other versions of this manuscript I had descriptions of him having to duck and crouch when carrying Jennie out of the cave up the tunnel, but I truncated the chapter, so that part get dropped. Actually, as I chewed on this thought, I've considered having him bump his head when he stands up to get the food. That might help the visual while matching the lightening mood I'm trying to make happen just at that moment.

 

I really like finally getting to learn some of the Westermann culture.  I do find it a bit odd that they live a similar lifetime to us.  Generally larger things live longer, but no reason to say it can't be different.  

 

Roamwald didn't go into it, but they actually don't. Bigger animals either live a lot longer (turtles/trees) or they can live shorter (big dog breeds vs. avg). In Westermann cases, they live shorter lives, mostly extended by their adaptation of Winterschlaf. Westermaenner in warmer climates die young than those who Winterschlaf. We find out about Winterschlaf in later books, but the biology wasn't important here, so I don't have him explain to Jennie that he spends most of his winter sleeping.

 

On the snatchers, this helps to put the valley in perspective.  I would think that humans in the larger world would be aware of the distinction between Westermann and Snatcher.  If the people in the valley are all ignorant of Westermanns, then I assume they all came from a sheltered area or were all young when they escaped together.

 

These are all correct inferences!

 

I thought the pacing was fine in this section--it's a learning chapter, but Jennie has a something else to do in fixing up Bandit, so it doesn't seem like an info dump.

 

One of many reasons I have that precise mechanism in there!

 

I really like Jennie's interaction with Roamwald.  Now that we have a better idea of his social stature, it's easier to see how these two get along.  Interested to see if Roamwald is a loaner, or if there are others of his kind around.

 

Soon!

 

The biggest problem I had with the scenery is explained above.  I think you do answer my questions later on, when you describe how Roamwald is set up later on, but I still struggle with reconciling two classes of people where one is 10x the size of the other.  It would seem to be hard for the larger species to see or interact with the smaller without hurting them and very easy for the smaller species to spot and avoid the larger.  I do wonder a bit how Roamwald realistically takes care of a dog without hurting it.  There's a reason we keep hamsters and mice in cages when we're not holding them--otherwise they might get squished.

 

Well, that's exactly the problem, and every setting we visit in later books has their own way of dealing with things. Playing out what this forces on culture is part of the fun.

 

In regards to the dog though, this is the only instance of a Westermann with a dog as a pet in the whole series; it's meant to emphasize how desperately lonely he is without saying so directly.

 

As always, looking forward to more.

 

Glad to hear those words! The next few chapters and the end are the hardest parts for me to execute. I struggle with them, so I'm hoping I can some critiques that punch them up to the level I want. Oof.

[krystalynn03 she/her]

So I liked this. Particularly I like that there is an entire civilisation of Westermann, with snatchers a kind of slaver. I agree with Mandaemon that the fact that humans do not now about Westermann vs snatchers very odd. Their must be some physical divide from the westermannish homeland that keeps humans from realizing there are more big people then just those that raid there homes and take people.

 

For the people of the valley, particulary Jennie, since there's POV it's a time divide and a physical divide. People outside the valley all know what's going on just fine. They've just been hiding forever, so Jennie's misconceptions are not the misconceptions of the average person living on the Westerland continent.  I could say more details on the point, but I'd be spoiling the next book.

 

Cave formation. With stalactites and stalagmites i'm imagining a limestone cavern..probably a some sort of karst system. however you don't get mountains made of just limestone (if i remember mountain building 101). To that point you need water to form Karsts and you wouldn't have much permeate into the mountains.  That said if  the cave is more westermann-made that could explain some aspects but i feel stalactites/stalagmites might be out if this is the case. 

But this is way beyond the point of this book so it not a big issue.

 

I'd say Roamwald's cave's recipe is one part limestone, one part Roamwald's labor and one part hand wavium. Mix liberally and set to bake at 50k words for six years.

 

Character interactions: I thought that both characters were a little over trusting of each other at first, but after reflection i was fine with it. 

 

I'd be curious at which particular lines you got jolted. The idea is she's easier going at first because she can't actually see him, but I don't know if my descriptions worked well or if that was too much of a connection to make. In previous versions I made it more obvious in the narrative...hm

 

Pacing: I liked it. I went ch 10 - the end of this no stops, and it all flowed well. 

 

Oh yay! Multi-weeks FTW!

 

Imagry was clear for me, and nothing didn't work (except the humans ignorance of Westermann). 

 

Look forward to more

 

Thanks!

[krystalynn03 she/her]

- Very curious now who - or what - the bridge is for.

 

It's for the sheep. I was hoping that connection would make itself, but so far it hasn't... Hm. It's so minor that I don't want to slow down things for it, but it also seems like it might be a red herring...which I definitely don't want.

 

- I chuckled when she grumbled "Like I'll ever chase a sheep again." I like that it shows the character regretting her previous actions.

 

Oh good! I write humor really terribly, so I'm glad when something does strike funny right.

 

- I really like the description of how the air moved with Roamwald as well as the sound his clothes makes. Very good non-visual descriptions.

 

- I also really like the interaction between Jeannie and Roamwald. It's very endearing, and really fits with the story. 

 

- I liked this section a lot. I'm really curious what the fallout from Jeannie's absence is. 

 

Thanks, thanks, thanks!

 

..And I'm sure nothing will go wrong because of this.

 

Nothing.

 

[Robinski he/him]

To that point you need water to form Karsts and you wouldn't have much permeate into the mountains. 

 

Ah jeez - don't mention the water...

[krystalynn03 she/her]

Breathe, Robinski, breathe!!! :lol:

[Robinski he/him]

Lol - seriously though, I think the cave is one of those instances where less information might be better. As soon as you start mentioning specifics you end with someone who knows a bit about something in with all these inconvenient facts - most troublesome  ;op

 

I feel that you could dial back a smidge so that it's handled in a big-cave-so-deal-with-it kind of way.

[krystalynn03 she/her]

Agree. Hand-waviuming this one, really. The audience of readers (adolescents) wouldn't think twice about it, really. Furthermore, I'm hoping that what the characters are doing and talking about is so engaging that the cave stuff would never occur as a concern in the midst of reading it if one's not in edit mode...

[Kammererite]

I'm fine with handwavium for the cave. I just thought i put the information out there as i find caves are missportyed all the time (especially the giant caves under cities in movies).

[krystalynn03 she/her]

Thanks, Kammererite! I want it to feel as real as it can!

[spieles]

I like Jennie's fear and trepidation as she makes her way to Roamwald's cave.

 

I like the description of Roamwald moving around the cave.

 

p. 10 "The dog relaxed with a huff" Given that's he's in pain - I'd say "sank down with a huff" or something that indicates the difficultly.

 

p. 16 “He liked to ‘un-snatch’ people.” This is a weird way of saying this. Freeing the enslaved isn't something one typically "likes" to do but feels morally obligated to do so. I might change the wording to He would "un-snatch" or something like that.

 

I'm glad they're off to find the sheep...