hoidhunter he/him Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) I almost feel silly starting a thread for one small observation...but what the heck...it's a free internet isn't it? While poking around pondering the nature of the unmade, corrupted investiture, nightblood, etc, something from one of the lines from the diagram stood out to me... "Powered by the spark of death itself" is the thing that really caught my attention. I've spend hours pouring over quotes and other info trying to puzzle out what the deal is with the unmade, but this is the first time that this particular line ever caught my interest. Could this have some correspondence with all the discussion about Black or Corrupted stormlight (investiture). What I mean is...sapient life is possible because ALL sapient life is in some small way invested...so...could the unmade be fueled by the negation or corruption of that life...death (specifically the death of an intelligent being) or even just the pain and suffering of one. to broaden the topic of conversation a bit...could this have something to do with how Odium goes about splintering a shard? We know that it's time consuming, we know that it's very taxing for him. Could it be that Odium has used Unmade like splinters to do his dirty work on other worlds before? The name Svrakiss springs to mind...The Svrakiss were the souls of men barred from entrance into heaven for hating Jaddeth in life,[1] and so were condemned to wander Sel, bitterly cursing their fate and preying on the living.[2] The Derethi believed that they had the ability to take of the bodies of living men and control their actions.[1] When someone who followed Shu-Dereth had bad luck or a difficult time, they believed that the Svrakiss were to blame.[3][4] The Svrakiss were considered to be a representation of absolute evil. Re-Shephir, the Midnight Mother, giving birth to abominations with her essence so dark, so terrible, so consuming. She is here! She watches me die! Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it! Though all of them have some relevance to precognition, Moelach is one of the most powerful in this regard. His touch seeps into a soul as it breaks apart from the body, creating manifestations powered by the spark of death itself. Well...have at it 17th shard...I know there are holes (feel free to point them out) but don't be afraid to run with the idea a little either! Edited November 6, 2015 by hoidhunter 9
Battar Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 I think you are right in thinking that Voidbinding or the Unmade has something to do with death, like bringing death or bringing one closer to death. I think it's likely that in some way either killing or using the bodies of the dead ties into Voidbinding in some way. This would explain why the Parshendi are so protective of the dead and how wary they are of doing things they feel are close to what their gods used to do. I also think it's likely that Voidbinding is an end-negative art, similar to Hemalurgy on Scadrial. Surgebinding is definitely end-positive to me, and Voidbinding is eerily symmetrical to Surgebinding in some ways. 3
Stormgate he/him Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 I see no problem, it fits in a lot of places, putting one more piece of the Cosmere into place. Any chance you could get a WoB on this? I don't think one exists currently, but if you could somehow get the question asked... 2
hoidhunter he/him Posted November 6, 2015 Author Posted November 6, 2015 Well...upvotes for supporting the thread early on. And you know...Battar...I never made the connection with the Listener reverence for the dead...could be something there...hhhhhmmmmm... Random musings on topic...death spren are black with glowing red eyes...and on scadrial Hemalurgy is, in essence, taking a piece of a dead person's soul and shoving it into someone else (read this on a different thread...not my original idea) keep it coming...
Yata he/him Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 I always thougth that the Unmade responsable for the Death Rattle. Use the Investiture of the Dyng Human to powered his Future-sight. While it consumed an Human's soul to see the future. The Dyng himself recive some bit of information (or the all vision)
Moogle Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 I've been suspecting the Unmade feed on Investiture to survive for a while. Of course, one good way to get it is to consume the souls of others... 1
hoidhunter he/him Posted November 7, 2015 Author Posted November 7, 2015 I've been suspecting the Unmade feed on Investiture to survive for a while. Of course, one good way to get it is to consume the souls of others... Or to hang out in highstorms (see striding the storm)...but anyway... I just thought that the language was oddly specific..."spark of death itself"...as opposed to the spark of life. 1
Yata he/him Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 I've been suspecting the Unmade feed on Investiture to survive for a while. Of course, one good way to get it is to consume the souls of others... It make me strange, the Splinters we know are far not dependant of other Investiture. They are indipendent bein. Therefore I don't understand the need of extra Investiture. Unless as I said, they do something tiring (like watching the future) an using the Extra Investiture for the "stressfull" activity. Or to hang out in highstorms (see striding the storm)...but anyway... I just thought that the language was oddly specific..."spark of death itself"...as opposed to the spark of life. It will probably refer to the source, they feed with the Investiture of the Dyng people (that is probably more easy to steal). About the "why not the Highstorm ?" I suppose that Stormlight is offlimit to them. It's the Investiture of Another (and Enemy) Shard. While the Humans on Roshar may have the Adonialsium's Investiture. A pure form without any "Enemy will" in them to prevent the use.
natc Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 Actually, do we even know where the stormlight came from? We don't even actually know if a shard is responsible, it could even be Adonalsium. Listeners seem to predate humanity, and they require the highstorms to bind spren, a fundamental part of their physiology. 1
Moogle Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 It make me strange, the Splinters we know are far not dependant of other Investiture. They are indipendent bein. Therefore I don't understand the need of extra Investiture. Unless as I said, they do something tiring (like watching the future) an using the Extra Investiture for the "stressfull" activity. Warbreaker spoilers: Returned require Investiture to live. Nightblood also consumes it. Honorblades also consume it. I would call the Unmade the equivalent of the Returned, as they were once listeners.
Yata he/him Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 @Moogle Yeah but like you can see with one exeption (that i will talk in the Spoiler) the other required Extra Investiture to do something more than survive. Spoiler Warbreaker and SA: The Returned is a strange case, they hold a Splinter, they aren't a Splinter. Seems to me that a returned body is pull by the "afterlife" and he need Investiture or the "pull" win. About the Honorblade, we don't know if they are a Honor's splinter. But anyway they don't have need of Investiture to survive. . Again to me the "only survive" isn't enought to give an explaination to the need of Extra power. To you is really strange that an Unmade may try to use future-sight to help Odium, using the Soul of Humans ? 1
Moogle Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 To you is really strange that an Unmade may try to use future-sight to help Odium, using the Soul of Humans ? I would not be surprised if it were the case. It would make sense. That said, I point to the fact that the Unmade like to hibernate for long periods of time. Warbreaker spoilers: Nightblood is another thing that hibernates in-between "waking up" by being pulled out of his sheath, at which point he requires a ton of Investiture. I just see quite a few similarities between the Unmade and Returned (both made from dead(?) things, both consume the souls of others) that I'm willing to speculate that they might share a lot of things, like requiring Investiture to live. 3
hoidhunter he/him Posted November 11, 2015 Author Posted November 11, 2015 Moogle, natc, and Yata...always good to have some of the veterans on the thread...upvotes... I feel like the Unmade are one of those things that we have most of the pieces of the puzzle and Brandon is going to drop one more on us in book 3 (hopefully) it's just driving me mad in the mean time. Now...another random musing on the topic...the giant crazy water spren that we see in one of the interludes...it mimics the faces of everyone who has died recently...and the people who come to observe it are left feeling drained...any possible affiliation? 1
Yata he/him Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Now...another random musing on the topic...the giant crazy water spren that we see in one of the interludes...it mimics the faces of everyone who has died recently...and the people who come to observe it are left feeling drained...any possible affiliation? About him I had two Ideas about: - Odium's GodSpren like Stormfather and Nightwatcher. - A GodSpren made by the Balance of Honour and Coltivation, a true neutral GodSpren. In both of cases I suppose that is the Spren that will form the Thrid BondSmith. But I point about the first case (about Odium)
Moogle Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Now...another random musing on the topic...the giant crazy water spren that we see in one of the interludes...it mimics the faces of everyone who has died recently...and the people who come to observe it are left feeling drained...any possible affiliation? I have next to no evidence, but I've always thought Cucicesh was one of the few Adonalsiumspren out there. 2
Battar Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Or to hang out in highstorms (see striding the storm)...but anyway... I just thought that the language was oddly specific..."spark of death itself"...as opposed to the spark of life. I agree, that is an interesting way of saying it. I wouldn't usually think of death as a spark, more like a flame flickering out, but that might just be evidence that my normal way of thinking isn't complete.
Shardbearer he/him Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Or if there are 3 "big" spren that Bondsmiths can bond to, then I think Cucicesh is one of those. 1
kaellok he/him Posted November 17, 2015 Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) Or to hang out in highstorms (see striding the storm)...but anyway... I just thought that the language was oddly specific..."spark of death itself"...as opposed to the spark of life. Midnight ramblings follow: We know that there's an afterlife in the Cosmere, and that sometimes just because you died doesn't mean you really died. What if the "spark of death itself" it turned from its opposite because it's specifically referring to precognition from powered from the transition from life to after-life? Precognition is an interesting thing to think about, and hard to fully grasp just because it's so alien to how we actually perceive and interact with the world. If the afterlife is a truly timeless existence that's all peace and happiness, etc., then it's quite likely that this realm would exist outside of our own space-time; so, seeing glimpses of what will happen in the near/far future/past seems not just plausible, but probable. The way the Unmade is able to catch these glimpses would seem to support this. Warbreaker spoilers The way that the Returned see things would also seem to support this. When they cross over, they catch a glimpse of something that they need to do, or something that needs to happen--but, when they come back across, their perception of time is all jumbled up and confused because the two realms are so different. It'd be possible for the dead to stick around in the after-world for millions of perceived years, only to Return in the moments after their initial death. So their job is to try and find those brief flashes that point towards what they needed to do. And so it's blatantly clear: I would suggest that everyone in the Cosmere has the opportunity to see something as they cross from life to death. Circumstances and individual may change whether they actually do or not--and special circumstances may change whether anything can be done about it. Edit: made some edits. Edited November 17, 2015 by kaellok
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