Long Game 15: ...The Shards Themselves...

[RippleGylf she/her]

I didn't have a whole lot of time to post before, so here are my concerns with the Mistborn vote. If we openly say who should be killed, it makes it a lot easier for the eliminators to find out who the Mistborn is if the kill ever deviates from the vote. If, for example, the Mistborn vote is on Honey Badger, and someone else is killed, that tells us that the Mistborn doesn't think that Badger is suspicious. With enough deviations, it would make it quite easy for the eliminators to deduce who the Mistborn is and kill them. Sure, there's the possibility that there is an eliminator Mistborn, but I doubt the GM would give them two kills. Therefore, these votes only really help the eliminators. If this were to work, the Mistborn must follow each vote without exception. If this is the case, the only situation where the Mistborn couldn't follow through would be killing themselves. This only makes matters worse.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

And I'm proposing we do have the mistborn follow every time. It's not a problem if they deviate from themselves - in such a situation, we have deemed them suspicious enough of being worth a lynch anyway.

[RippleGylf she/her]

Just because the general consensus is to lynch them doesn't mean that they're an eliminator or that they deserve to die. Quite often, they're not guilty. By having a Mistborn vote, we simply make it easier for the Mistborn to be killed, which is one of the more valuable roles the village has.

[STINK he/him]

If I was the Mistborn, I'd ignore the whole Mistborn vote tally thing.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Ripple, the same logic can be applied to a normal lynch - we are not always right - but it's the actual conducting of it that gains is the information.

Stink, assuming the mistborn is a villager, they would be far better off helping gather information for the village than any other course of action, unless they have an overwhelming suspicion of their own.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

BB, I wasn't saying that you should reveal your role (If you were addressing me, I assume autocorrect struck again haha). I am saying that we don't have a reason to preserve you, really. So there isn't much point in scanning you. And none of what I said really reflects on my opinion of whether you are innocent or not. I think that a cleared (or guilty) Adavantos is more useful knowledge than a guilty or cleared BB.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Ultimately it is up to the Kandra, but I have realized that it's best if I, Adavantos, get scanned tonight. The sooner that everyone stops questioning my alignment the better, as it's only making it harder for me to focus the discussion on topics that are actually important.

For the record, I know Bridge Boy's role. Though I confronted him about it in PM and he denied it I am confident that I was right in my guess. But just because it is nothing special and could very well be on either team, I do not think that means he is expendable. Personally I would rather see him get scanned before we kill him, because while I don't buy a lot of the excuses he's made this game, I don't want to condemn him for them either. No one is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. I did it when I swung the vote way from Wilson to Creccio and cemented the latters death when he began to act suspiciously, rather than follow my initial judgments and trust my gut against Wilson. I personally do not think BB deserves to die just yet. I would rather see players who are avoiding the spotlight or just inactive altogether be killed in order to encourage more people to participate.

With that being said, Honey's PM to me was suspicious, yes, but that doesn't mean he deserves death either. I would rather him not have role claimed to me because it feels like I unintentionally bullied it out of him for advocating his death, when that was no my intention at all. I just wanted him to become active in the thread to show everyone and give up what little suspicions he has despite his difficulty following the game so far. By him blindly role claiming to me like that he put himself in a lot more danger than necessary, assuming that I was evil and he was a role that they would want to be eliminated fast.

I have decided that I am perfectly okay with the deaths of Dowanx and Zed. The former has been MIA for awhile now and before disappearing has admitted to me that he often logs out of the forums so he can view the thread as a guest; this is a practice that I am vehemently against and I feel should be punished on principle alone. So Dowanx, if you are reading this I ask that you please log on and begin sharing some of the information you have gathered or any ideas you have in regards to who might be evil. As for Zed he has been gone for a rather long time, and first game or not, he is of no use to us alive or dead. Better that a loyal player who can't even vote anyway be killed rather than one who is active enough to help us lynch the traitors.

I am also suspicious of Alfa at the moment and would not mind his death as he seems inclined to stay out of this game.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Adavantos

[Elbereth she/her]

I've been tallying up the votes so far, and there are a few people that have never voted this game. They are Elby, Dow, Venture, Badger, Zed, and Alfa. Dow is active in PMs, and Alfa has posted. I'm not sure if Elby and Venture have posted.

Based on this, I think the Mistborn should kill Badger, as he has been completely inactive in both this game and MR9.

I'm here! I have actually posted, several times. I have also placed a scanvote, though not an actual vote. I'm having trouble with the "condemning people to die" part, partly because even in real life Mafia I'm more quiet and not prone to voting. But I know I need to get past that, so I promist to place one tomorrow. If I don't, poke me.

Also, Venture isn't even in this game.

I've said this in PMs, and even before in thread, but will say it again.

If we conduct it properly, there are no differences between a lynch and a voted on mistborn kill. And we don't get players questioning the good of a lynch. We get exactly the same information from both, and in fact reduce the influence of the traitor kill dramatically - from removing half the killed players to but a third, whilst doubling the opportunities for players to slip up in thread.

I can understand why people are suspicious of Bridgeboy, but will reiterate my support of Adavantos being scanned. Should he be evil, given the information and power he holds, we need to know as soon as possible.

No. There is one difference between a lynch and a mistvote. And that is that if they want to, an Elantrian can negate it. If the traitors have an Elantrian, this is a problem. In effect, we'd only kill innocents and never traitors.

This is Sanderson Elimination, for the Lord Ruler's sake! Kill the suspect and ask questions later! You can't win this game by scanning everyone right before you want to kill them, and that would take all the fun out of it besides. It is like a Day 1 lynch, and inactive players. We can't be squeamish when it comes to killing people. (Not to mention that by far the most fun I have had on this forum was being dead in the AG. Wilson in awesome to have in a doc with, and writing RP for her death was pretty great too.)

What's the AG?

I didn't have a whole lot of time to post before, so here are my concerns with the Mistborn vote. If we openly say who should be killed, it makes it a lot easier for the eliminators to find out who the Mistborn is if the kill ever deviates from the vote. If, for example, the Mistborn vote is on Honey Badger, and someone else is killed, that tells us that the Mistborn doesn't think that Badger is suspicious. With enough deviations, it would make it quite easy for the eliminators to deduce who the Mistborn is and kill them. Sure, there's the possibility that there is an eliminator Mistborn, but I doubt the GM would give them two kills. Therefore, these votes only really help the eliminators. If this were to work, the Mistborn must follow each vote without exception. If this is the case, the only situation where the Mistborn couldn't follow through would be killing themselves. This only makes matters worse.

Another problem is that there are apparently multiple Mistborn (if all the people that have apparently claimed are Mistborn). Let's say there's three. One is Adavantos' Mistborn. Presumably Adavantos can announce who he's going to target, but what about the other two? Do they target the runner up? That means one of their kills is wasted (unless the person happens to be a Voidbringer). Do they both pick whoever they want, not looking at the order at all? And they don't even know there's another one out there, unless three distinct kills happen. Until that point, they might assume there's two (which there might be).

Anyway. Those are my thoughts on the mistvote.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Adavantos.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Elbereth

[Araris Valerian he/him]

AG is anniversary game. Meta was busy and asked everyone in the dead doc to write riddles for Wilson's character to follow, eventually leading to a trap where she was killed. And then the rest of the doc turned into the Bloodthirsty Goddess.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Araris Valerian

[Elbereth she/her]

That sounds amazing.

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

Well if Badger say's he's going to talk more, then hopefully he does. I did say I was willing to withdraw my mistborn vote if he turned up and I guess a PM counts, so here you go: Honey Badger

[Arraenae]

Elbereth, I know that you're active-- I was just talking about the votes. Thanks for pointing out that Venture isn't here. I made a list of players, but it's based off of LG 15a.

I still think that Honey Badger should be Mistborn-lynched unless he posts in this thread. PMs are nice, but I'd like to see a public post.

 

EDIT: Honey Badger has posted.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Arraenae

[Kaid he/him]

PM's could be seen as a traitors effort at watching their words to avoid making a mistake in the main thread.

[The Honey Badger he/him]

I am here, I'm sorry for the disturbance I have caused and I appreciate the idea of using the Mistborn as a second lynch. I have expressed that idea in the past, and I'm glad to see it work to an extent. I honestly don't know who is suspicious, I trust Adavantos but if he hasn't been scanned that's something for me to consider. I will attempt to be as active as physically possible from here on out, especially considering that the threads aren't as massive as they used to be with Kasimir. I love Kasimir, he's a pretty chill dude, but he can post a lot. I hope to be as useful as possible to the village in the future.

[Clanky he/him]

It's probably worth reiterating to the kandra that if they do discover Adavantos to be evil, it is worth them getting the information out - even at risk to their own secrecy - as a player with this much control, his evilness would call for serious damage mitigation - on a scale sufficient to render hiding your role at all costs a minor concern.

I am off the opinion that we should decide that the mistborn will kill a player tonight, and conduct the vote properly - as we would a normal lynch, to gain the same information we would from a lynch, rather than having votes of abstention - which would be incredibly unusual in a lynch.

Adavantos, Phatt, Clanky, all of you must have at least some suspicions - and making 'no kill' a valid way of engaging provides all those who do not want exposure with a very good way of staying out of the conversation.

I had voted no kill at the time since I didn't have any big suspicions at the time and I knew that I had until the end of the night cycle to place a vote. Now that I havve become suspicious of Kaid. Partly because of this post which seems more like sowing discourse than anything else:

 

PM's could be seen as a traitors effort at watching their words to avoid making a mistake in the main thread.

You can make a mistake just as easily in a PM as in the thread. All talking done by eliminators will increase their chances of slipping up whether that be in thread or PMs. With that said I don't condone people only talking in PMs for the reason that not everyone uses PMs a lot so no thread discussion hurts them and discussion in thread is the only thing that can happen during the day and night thread discusion can be built upon in the following days better than PMs.

 

Secondly this post is suspicious in saying a scan on him is useless because no-one is claiming to him and by saying that the people who he claimed to are traitors if they don't come forward to defend him. Also why would you only tell people your role if you were innocent Kaid?

 

If I was the Mistborn, I'd ignore the whole Mistborn vote tally thing.

That doesn't actually matter that much if the Mistborn ignores the votes, it still generates discussion.Also I wouldn't be surprised if there were a mistborn without their own strong suspicions to act on or who values the communities opinion over their own.

[Kaid he/him]

Secondly this post is suspicious in saying a scan on him is useless because no-one is claiming to him and by saying that the people who he claimed to are traitors if they don't come forward to defend him. Also why would you only tell people your role if you were innocent Kaid?

 

Ok, I meant I would not have claimed the role I did. So either I wouldn't have claimed or I would've most likely claimed something else.

 

Also, I didn't mean they were traitors if they didn't come forward to defend me, I may have posted a bit hastily. I guess I just meant that if they didn't then they could be, although I don't think they are. On the other hand, they could maybe talk to a few people if they wanted. If they don't want to out themselves, thats fine though. If they dont, then everything I have said is purely my own word and that is not enough for most people in this game.

[Bort he/him]

Hey guys, sorry for my absence over the weekend. I tend to let myself get distracted by stuff. This weekend it was Netflix, Stargate SG-1, and Fallout New Vegas achievement hunting.

 

Good job on getting Wilson

 

For the people to be scanned, I think Ada needs to be. For all his claims that he doesn't want to be a leader this game, he seems to have ended up in the role regardless, so we should probably be sure. Ada, personally I believe you are innocent, and I think you are doing a pretty good job keeping people talking. Of course, given my track record so far this game, that probably means you are a Traitor.

 

For a Mistborn kill, I'd send them after Dowanx. He hasn't said a thing in the thread (that I've noticed at least, it's possible I've missed a post), but it has been said that he is active in PMs. Not only does that kinda defeat the point of the game (discussing things to try to find the Traitors doesn't work so well when you don't talk publicly), but it also makes him look dodgy, like he has something to hide.

 

Edit: I just noticed this line in the post before this one,

 

If they dont, then everything I have said is purely my own word and that is not enough for most people in this game.

 

and would like to say, of course people don't take you at your word in Sanderson Elimination. That is because people are expected to lie to cover their backs and protect themselves. As they say... "doveryai no proveryai".

Edited November 16, 2015 by Bort

[Amanuensis he/him]

I am changing my Kandra vote from Bridge Boy to myself, Adavantos, and my Mistborn vote from Dowanx to Kaid as well.

 

Kandra Vote Tally

(6) Bridge Boy: Adavantos (1), Paranoid King (2), Elbereth (2), Lopen (1), Spaghetii (1), Ripple (1), Kaid (2)

(8) Adavantos: Orlok (1), Kipper (1), Clanky (1), Kaid (1), Arraenae (1), Steph (1), Bridge Boy (1), Araris (1), Adavantos (2)

(1) Alvron: little wilson (1),

(1) Kaid: Hellscythe (1), Elbereth (1), Paranoid King (1),

(1) Stink: Stink (1)

 

Mistborn Vote Tally

(2) No One: Adavantos (1), phattemer (1), Clanky (1), Ripple (1)

(1) Phattmer: Orlok (1)

(1) Adavantos: little wilson (1)

(3) Kaid: Hellscythe (1), Clanky (2), Adavantos (4)

(1) Honey Badger: Araris (1), Adavantos (2), Arraenae (1), Spaghetti (1)

(1) Dowanx: Adavantos (3), Bort (1)

[Bort he/him]

 

Kandra Vote Tally

(6) Bridge Boy: Adavantos (1), Paranoid King (2), Elbereth (2), Lopen (1), Spaghetii (1), Ripple (1), Kaid (2)

(9) Adavantos: Orlok (1), Kipper (1), Clanky (1), Kaid (1), Arraenae (1), Steph (1), Bridge Boy (1), Araris (1), Adavantos (2), Bort (1)

(1) Alvron: little wilson (1),

(1) Kaid: Hellscythe (1), Elbereth (1), Paranoid King (1),

(1) Stink: Stink (1)

 

Mistborn Vote Tally

(2) No One: Adavantos (1), phattemer (1), Clanky (1), Ripple (1)

(1) Phattmer: Orlok (1)

(1) Adavantos: little wilson (1)

(3) Kaid: Hellscythe (1), Clanky (2), Adavantos (4)

(1) Honey Badger: Araris (1), Adavantos (2), Arraenae (1), Spaghetti (1)

(0) Dowanx: Adavantos (3), Bort (1)

 

 

Just to make it official... Adavantos. Also, my Mistborn comment was not a vote. I'm not going to vote on who the Mistborn should take out, since that's up to the Mistborn. Instead, I'm just offering up my opinion. Edited the quote above to reflect.

 

Edit: Updating numbers in the tallies.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Bort

[queensteph she/her]

Hey guys, sorry for not posting at all yet this cycle, I've been busy and haven't even had the chance to read anything (I haven't even read the captains writeup) and I'm probably going to be off until close to the end of D4 because I'm going to be staying at my sisters and I won't have a way to get on.

[Elkanah he/him]

It has really bugged me how much information Adavantos has without much reason to trust him. My gut has said he was good so I haven't said too much about it, but I would like to add my vote to scanning him to be sure. Once we can trust Adavantos, it opens a lot of opportunities for trust and as he has become a hub of info anyway. Maybe he would be a good contact with the HI so we don't lose the information if/when the HI turns.

Of course, if he is evil, we just kill him anyway and the traitors lose that point of contact.

 

On voting for the mistborn kill, I'll put my vote on Phattemer. I can't find the quote now, but someone said that the no vote option was a good disguise for not voting in a lynch. That is all I have to go off of and I suggest the mistborn rather than going with the popular vote, just go with someone who has been nominated who seems the most suspicious to them. That could solve the problem of revealing themselves by only changing the kill when they or someone they trust are the target. 

 

Also, I'm sorry to have been so inactive recently. I didn't realize the time commitment this game involved, but I am committed to being more active from here on.

[Amanuensis he/him]

I guess I'm just a trustworthy guy; while I'll be happy to have people stop questioning my alignment since it only serves to distract us from our actual purpose of finding the Traitors, I'm a bit afraid that once I'm confirmed good that more players will start revealing to me, which brings us that much closer to this turning into a Mayor game. It's one thing when I gained a few player's trust and they revealed to me, as there is genuine risk to that if they turned out to be wrong about me, but in this case there's going to be little to no reason for people to want to not tell me anything...

 

Which is one reason why I won't have alignment scanning roles in any games I run.

[STINK he/him]

Sounds like you're running for President.

[Amanuensis he/him]

I do plan on running some day, actually. We've never had a Marine president, you know..

[STINK he/him]

Actually, ignore that last joke. 

 

Sounds like you're running for President Mayor!