Long Game 15: ...The Shards Themselves...

[STINK he/him]

Also the hint that Creccio gave Ada and Maw. Didn't know there was another hint thanks.

[Bort he/him]

Braize you all, stop typing. I'm trying to finish writing a post

[Creccio he/him]

Braize you all, stop typing. I'm trying to finish writing a post

 

Typing is all we do 

[Kasimir he/him]

...Clearly, Adavantos is not the only person with insomnia. Congratulations, Wyrm, I think your game plays merry Braize with players' sleep cycles >>
 

Oh, yea, i was fishing for roles, but, who in here involved in many PMs was not? I wonder why that came to shock you.

For the record, I'm involved in 12 PMs. Assuming that a dozen counts, by any standard unit of measure, as 'many', I should like to state for the record that I have never fished for role information, only sought to talk and get a better feel for the person I was communicating with and to troll. Heavily.

Anyone I spoke to is free to stand as my witness, or to contradict me on this. In fact, I recall you telling me you had, I quote, "some juicy information on Phat." I said that I did not desire to know about it for informational safety reasons. Nor have I asked any role information-pertaining questions.
 

I had seriously forgotten about that post... Do NOT post at 6am guys.

Noted, with my apologies. I will endeavour to post at a better time for everyone to read at their convenience. Bad Kas! Bad, bad Kas!

I thank you for replying with your impressions of Bort and Bridge Boy
 

And yes I instigate discussion and love to have to talk, its just How i play i guess.

To be frank, this quote is the reason I came back. Because, you know, instigating discussion isn't just asking people for their views. It's about responding to their views. It's about promoting discussion--overall discussion--by promulgating your own views, in order that people know where you stand, and in order that people can react to what you say. Which, in turn, promotes further discussion.

You were correct to press me on my perspective on Bridge Boy and Bort. Yet it seems to me that if you love to have to talk, then consistent with that, surely you would enjoy offering us your impressions more freely than you have been doing.

And that's not just it. You asked me for a suspicions trade, and when I presented you with my suspicions (after, I admit, being a bit uncivily grumpy), you never responded to it. You simply asked me for my take on STINK (which was, already, within the post!)

So here's what strikes me as odd, Creccio. You thrive on discussion. All right. But after pressing me for my suspicions (and my demurring, rather rudely, and I apologise for that, due to busy work), you didn't read my suspicions post. And I grant it was somewhat long, but it also seems to me as though you weren't really serious about wanting those suspicions. You certainly kept asking me for suspicions/people to nail to a post if I died thereafter. Furthermore, we continued conversing for quite some time after that post went up; so you certainly weren't pressed for time.

None of that, to me, is consistent with wanting to promote discussion. Discussion involves considering suspicions; not just formulaic asking for them. It involves examining and engaging with the suspicions involved by others. I saw none of that, and I cannot help but feel something strange with this.
 
P.S. Considering you asked me to nail Adavantos's hide to a post if you died, why refer to him as a Loyal now?

Araris, I would still like an answer.

And I know I've been pretty bad about staying off for good, but the fact remains that rollover is at 4AM my time, so I cannot be around on rollover on this weekday (and it's probably not good for my health anyway, even if it were a weekend...) So if there's a change, please work around me, because I won't be up to be able to retract my vote. I know it's a kind of risky thing I'm doing, but inconsistencies definitely set me off.

[Bort he/him]

Creccio, you don't love to instigate discussion though, you love to extract whatever information you can from a situation, without offering up any in return.

 

Even this long post of yours defending yourself. It says nothing. Of course Maill was suspicious of you on day one. Everyone suspects everyone on day one. But, what made him suspicious enough of you to approach you in a PM? Your sole defense to that is 'But everyone is suspicious of everyone'. While true, Maw didn't contact me to tell me he was suspicious of me.

 

Did anyone else receive a PM from Maw to tell you he was suspicious of you?

 

You retracted your votes during the D1 cycle to test a theory. Fine. What theory? You've already said you would share the reasons behind it in a PM, and no-one has confirmed that they have heard those reasons from you (I asked in an earlier post this cycle - not what the reasons were, but if they had heard them - no-one came forward). I even asked you in a PM about it. You fobbed me off with a platitude, then went right on trying to extract intel from me, asking for an analysis of your posts no less. Were you looking for hints about what you need to improve on to remain hidden as an eliminator?

 

And finally, again, you offer an explanation... In a PM. There is pretty much nothing in your posts that suggests you are trustworthy.

 

Edit: Oh, right, forgot to mention... I don't fish for roles in PMs either. I did ask Lopen if he cared to share his role in our PM, but that was primarily a joke and I fully expected his answer of 'No'.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Bort

[Creccio he/him]

...Clearly, Adavantos is not the only person with insomnia. Congratulations, Wyrm, I think your game plays merry Braize with players' sleep cycles >>

 

For the record, I'm involved in 12 PMs. Assuming that a dozen counts, by any standard unit of measure, as 'many', I should like to state for the record that I have never fished for role information, only sought to talk and get a better feel for the person I was communicating with and to troll. Heavily.

Anyone I spoke to is free to stand as my witness, or to contradict me on this. In fact, I recall you telling me you had, I quote, "some juicy information on Phat." I said that I did not desire to know about it for informational safety reasons. Nor have I asked any role information-pertaining questions.

 

Noted, with my apologies. I will endeavour to post at a better time for everyone to read at their convenience. Bad Kas! Bad, bad Kas!

I thank you for replying with your impressions of Bort and Bridge Boy

 

To be frank, this quote is the reason I came back. Because, you know, instigating discussion isn't just asking people for their views. It's about responding to their views. It's about promoting discussion--overall discussion--by promulgating your own views, in order that people know where you stand, and in order that people can react to what you say. Which, in turn, promotes further discussion.

You were correct to press me on my perspective on Bridge Boy and Bort. Yet it seems to me that if you love to have to talk, then consistent with that, surely you would enjoy offering us your impressions more freely than you have been doing.

And that's not just it. You asked me for a suspicions trade, and when I presented you with my suspicions (after, I admit, being a bit uncivily grumpy), you never responded to it. You simply asked me for my take on STINK (which was, already, within the post!)

So here's what strikes me as odd, Creccio. You thrive on discussion. All right. But after pressing me for my suspicions (and my demurring, rather rudely, and I apologise for that, due to busy work), you didn't read my suspicions post. And I grant it was somewhat long, but it also seems to me as though you weren't really serious about wanting those suspicions. You certainly kept asking me for suspicions/people to nail to a post if I died thereafter. Furthermore, we continued conversing for quite some time after that post went up; so you certainly weren't pressed for time.

None of that, to me, is consistent with wanting to promote discussion. Discussion involves considering suspicions; not just formulaic asking for them. It involves examining and engaging with the suspicions involved by others. I saw none of that, and I cannot help but feel something strange with this.

 

P.S. Considering you asked me to nail Adavantos's hide to a post if you died, why refer to him as a Loyal now?

Araris, I would still like an answer.

And I know I've been pretty bad about staying off for good, but the fact remains that rollover is at 4AM my time, so I cannot be around on rollover on this weekday (and it's probably not good for my health anyway, even if it were a weekend...) So if there's a change, please work around me, because I won't be up to be able to retract my vote. I know it's a kind of risky thing I'm doing, but inconsistencies definitely set me off.

 

That was at night because he had a hint of what I was. He still does. Hurray.

 

I did read your post. And i gave my opinions on Bort and BB Wilson, as the 3 I think are the most suspicious in my eyes. I read everything.

 

Also. yes of all the PMs Kas is the only one who did not go that way. Or bort it seems.

 

Kasimir Bort and Adavantos, I right now, dont have enough proof to get my innocence if you think i might be better off dead, be it so. I cant do nothing but to appeal to your feelings and say that you will be killing a Loyal with a role that could potentially screw the Traitors over.

 

I guess that I am now wishing for dear life.

 

-----

@Bort. People have come out and said what it was. I wanted to lure out a traitor ferruchemist, it just didnt work out the way i hoped. I did find out something else though. Also, Sorry, maybe at that point I was too fed up with everyone asking that same question.

 

Just for the record. Stink

 

Wilson

 

If not, Its Kipper or adavantos. Go Loyals, lets win this, even from the dead I will be cheering on.

 

Edit: Added wilson to sus list

Edited November 9, 2015 by Creccio

[Guest]

Now that I know that not everyone is an aruetti, I may spout some Mando'a on occasion. Oya manda!

I don't have much to say about this Creccio thing, other than saying that he didn't tell me why he retracted when I PMd him either.

So Ada, feel free to chalk this up as a mostly irrelevant and off-topic post.

[Amanuensis he/him]

@Creccio: you yourself said that the threat of a lynch was necessary to instigate discussion. I am simply exploring the merit of that claim.

 

I also want to mention that I have had several players tell me that you were (or had very good reason to believe that you were) a Mistborn, especially after I started asking people who they would hypothetically want a Mistborn to kill. One of the first things you told me after you gave me the hint to your role is that "if I die, kill Mail." That directly contradicts what you just said of being certain you couldn't die. You also say the same phrase again, saying that "he thinks I am a Mistborn (I might be) if I die, please get him"

 

Additionally, the only time I phished for a role was when I bribed the Hemalurgist's identity out of Stink. Every other time I was approached by someone, either because I posted openly so everyone could see that I wanted to establish contact with a certain role (I left it up to them to decide) or I told other players that if they know a certain role, ask them if they would please contact me. I gave everyone a choice to come to me rather than respond; sometimes I was told that they were not willing, other times they messaged me shortly after. I gave players a choice, partly because I could then create webs of well Player A told me Player B said I wanted to talk to them, so if Player A turns out to be evil Player B probably is too. There is one other instance where I mentioned to a player that someone else had reason to believe they were a Feruchemist and they then admitted it immediately, but also that they did not affect the vote, which coincided with a PM within a similar time frame where a player claimed to be the Feruchemist that changed Shallan's vote and affirmed they were loyal. So either those two are definitely evil trying to cover each other's alibies or the Traitor's didn't receive a Feruchemist this round, which in my mind implicates you for your last minute retraction. I also should note that in our PM together, Creccio, the first subject you brought up was the traitor Feruchemist as if it were a for sure thing, when really you, being evil, knew there was none and hopped you could use that to gain my trust, not knowing that I would later be confronted by the one who changed the vote.

 

EDIT: Note, that last sentence is the impression left on me by the situation; I'm not saying you are for sure evil, but I can't help but wonder. In my mind right now it's either you're guilty or the other two players are guilty.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Adavantos

[Elithanathile he/him]

More Star Wars references! Oh joy!

 

I'm really briikase about Mando'a, and other stuff like that, Kip'ika.

 

I'll be sending out some PM's tonight.

 

And yeah, this is another non-adding post.

[Creccio he/him]

 

@Creccio: you yourself said that the threat of a lynch was necessary to instigate discussion. I am simply exploring the merit of that claim.

 

I also want to mention that I have had several players tell me that you were (or had very good reason to believe that you were) a Mistborn, especially after I started asking people who they would hypothetically want a Mistborn to kill. One of the first things you told me after you gave me the hint to your role is that "if I die, kill Mail." That directly contradicts what you just said of being certain you couldn't die. You also say the same phrase again, saying that "he thinks I am a Mistborn (I might be) if I die, please get him"

 

Additionally, the only time I phished for a role was when I bribed the Hemalurgist's identity out of Stink. Every other time I was approached by someone, either because I posted openly so everyone could see that I wanted to establish contact with a certain role (I left it up to them to decide) or I told other players that if they know a certain role, ask them if they would please contact me. I gave everyone a choice to come to me rather than respond; sometimes I was told that they were not willing, other times they messaged me shortly after. I gave players a choice, partly because I could then create webs of well Player A told me Player B said I wanted to talk to them, so if Player A turns out to be evil Player B probably is too. There is one other instance where I mentioned to a player that someone else had reason to believe they were a Feruchemist and they then admitted it immediately, but also that they did not affect the vote, which coincided with a PM within a similar time frame where a player claimed to be the Feruchemist that changed Shallan's vote and affirmed they were loyal. So either those two are definitely evil trying to cover each other's alibies or the Traitor's didn't receive a Feruchemist this round, which in my mind implicates you for your last minute retraction. I also should note that in our PM together, Creccio, the first subject you brought up was the traitor Feruchemist as if it were a for sure thing, when really you, being evil, knew there was none and hopped you could use that to gain my trust, not knowing that I would later be confronted by the one who changed the vote.

 

 

I too was confronted.  I know who this Ferruchemist is too,,,

 

Adavantos, I wanted to get him because if I did die, it would only make sense for you or him to be the traitors as you are the only ones who knew. As the night shift got longer, I knew I wouldn't die.

 

If you think that i did that to gain your trust...you are wrong. 

 

I assume the traitors have a Feruchemist because in my mind it would help them achieve their goal, its just how i would have planned the teams.

 

Again, Adavantos, a logic man as yourself cannot be swayed by emotions, but please think this through, you are killing a loyal.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Creccio

[Elithanathile he/him]

Just to warn you, with that last sentence of yours? Yeah. Everyone says that, whether they're an eliminator or not, so it's probably not going to work. Some of the eliminators best weapons are emotions. The way that the village finds them is by ignoring them, and going by the facts.

[STINK he/him]

I'm not sure how to feel about this.

 

EDIT: Might as well do this, the SE version of an AMA! Want to know my role? (would have to be in a PM) Want to ask me specifically about someone? Now's the chance!

Edited November 9, 2015 by IrulelikeSTINK

[Guest]

Vote history notation:

Stink (0): Kipper (1), Creccio (1), Wilson (1)

Kaid (0): Kasimir (1)

Wilson (3): Ripple (1), Adavantos (1), Kipper (2), phattemer (1), Creccio (2)

Kipper (1): Paranoid King (1)

Araris (0): Kasimir (2)

Creccio (3): Bort (1), Adavantos (2), Kasimir (3)

Ripple (1): Wilson (2)

This is the part I hate, where everybody feels like they need to break the tie, and jump on it with no suspicions...I know there's a discrepancy with Wilson's vote that carried over from Ada's list. I will check into it.

@Bort No, because I would have laughed at him. He just does that to make you defensive. And it works quite well, sometimes.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Guest

[little wilson she/her]

This is the part I hate, where everybody feels like they need to break the tie, and jump on it with no suspicions...I know there's a discrepancy with Wilson's vote that carried over from Ada's list. I will check into it.

 

Discrepancy? I didn't think there was a discrepancy. My only vote has been for Ripple this turn....

 

EDIT: Wait. Stink. I voted for Stink first. Wow. I'm not sure how I forgot that....

[Amanuensis he/him]

@Wilson; you voted for Stink rather early, if I'm not mistaken, then changed it to Ripple after I came to his defense

[little wilson she/her]

Yeah. I remembered that right after I posted and edited that in....

[STINK he/him]

And after you were so convinced I was evil

[Guest]

Vote history notation:

Wilson (3): Ripple (1), Adavantos (1), Kipper (2), Creccio (2), phattemer (1)

Creccio (3): Bort (1), Adavantos (2), Kasimir (3)

Kipper (1): Paranoid King (1)

Ripple (1): Wilson (2)

Stink (0): Kipper (1), Creccio (1), Wilson (1)

Kaid (0): Kasimir (1)

Araris (0): Kasimir (2)

Regular notation:

Wilson (3): Kipper, phattemer, Creccio

Creccio (3): Bort, Adavantos, Kasimir

Kipper (1): Paranoid King

Ripple (1): Wilson

BOOM fixed it.

Bridge Boy, will see you tonight, ner vod.

Edit to fix up vote tally.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Guest

[little wilson she/her]

And after you were so convinced I was evil

 

.....you sound upset that I forgot. Would you like me  to vote for you again to make up for that?

[STINK he/him]

Creccios vote tally has the numbers go (1) (2) (3). It feels satisfying, so therefore I must say Creccio.

 

Also, in my PM with Creccio it was much the same with the whole 'I WILL DEVOUR YOUR INFORMATION!' which I didn't really do anything with so the PM kinda died... 

Edited November 9, 2015 by IrulelikeSTINK

[Amanuensis he/him]

I have said this multiple times now. If you are not confident a person is evil, do not vote.

 

EDIT: Also, this is why I hate votes that are decided last minute, let alone by the minority. If we are going to condemn a player to death we need more input from everyone. I might start suggesting games require that 25% of the living players vote to get someone lynched.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Adavantos

[Guest]

We actually do not need a majority to agree to "condemn someone to death." It's not like this is a real death, so this appeal to emotion bothers me somewhat.

Having a requirement for a majority to vote would remove much of the analytic value of lynches.

[Amanuensis he/him]

I'm just particularly paranoid about this game because of the fact we lost a Kandra D1 over nothing. And I don't enjoy the feeling of me taking charge of the crew. 

[Hellscythe he/him]

True. But we get a Kandra D3. Probably. 

 

Paranoid King for obvious reasons. Such as his 180 turn on his playstyle from LG15a to LG15b. He's only posted once today in a half vote, half RP and did little to help the town both Day one and Day two.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Hellscythe

[Elithanathile he/him]

From what I've seen, PK's playstyle tends to vary a lot from game to game, posting a lot, RPing a lot, or not very much at all, but only one post so far is low, even for him. It's not enough to put my vote on him, but the contrast from last game is certainly striking.