Lurchers Ganging Up

[Oudeis he/him]

Floating something out there, a random thought which occurred to me today.

 

We know that a typical Lurcher is unable to affect metal inside of someone's body.

 

We know that a typical Soother is unable to affect the emotions of a koloss.

 

The Lord Ruler flat-out stated that multiple Soothers could work together to overcome a koloss's resistance to emotional allomancy and activate The Flaw.

 

We know that "cannot affect metal" isn't a binary thing, it's a matter of resistance; this is supported by the fact that with the Mists or duralumin, Vin could Pull on metal inside someone's body, and WoP is the most recent to mention the sliding scale.

 

So. With all this in mind... I don't know how I myself feel about this, but I wonder.

 

Could many Lurchers, working at once, Pull on a piece of metal in someone's body?

 

My initial reaction is to say no. Why? Because there's not even a line traveling to that metal, so how could any number of Lurchers affect it? However, this got me thinking about Soothing a koloss. We know there's no effect from Soothing a koloss normally. You just stare at the koloss burning brass and think really hard. The emotions aren't affected and there's no mental feedback to let you know how you're doing. Yet, many Soothers at once can work together, and eventually penetrate the defenses. This implies that at least one plausible model is: The resistance of an object is lowered for every Misting opposing that specific resistance.

 

If that model is true, a dozen Lurchers could all burn their iron. Even without ironlines, they could all stare at the same earring, focusing their mental energies on it. If this model is correct, the resistance of this metal to allomancy would weaken with each successive Lurcher focusing on it. Eventually, one of them would see an ironline and be able to Pull on it.

 

Just a random brainstorm I had today. It's still fresh in my mind and I don't know how I feel about it, if I think it's a plausible model or not. Perhaps someone will point out to me something super obvious that invalidates the model, or maybe I'll come up with it on my own after considering it for a bit longer, or maybe I'll ask Mr. Sanderson at a signing.

[ThirdGen]

You don't need to know there's a door there to push it open in the dark. I think it could be done.

 

And Soothing has the extra advantage of being an area effect, so it doesn't necessarily need to be focussed.

[Scriptorian he/him]

I think it sounds consistent enough to be at least plausible. Another extension of this theory would be to have multiple seekers able to pierce a copper cloud, although I'm not sure how useful that would be.

[Oudeis he/him]

I think it sounds consistent enough to be at least plausible. Another extension of this theory would be to have multiple seekers able to pierce a copper cloud, although I'm not sure how useful that would be.

 

Ooo, hadn't thought of that. This might help me phrase the question.

 

"According to the Lord Ruler, multiple Soothers can overcome a koloss's resistance to emotional allomancy and exploit the flaw. Could multiple Lurchers work together to pull on metal piercing a body? Could multiple Seekers work together to pierce a coppercloud?"

[Blaze1616 he/him]

I'm going to say no. With no line, no pulling can be done. Burning iron and staring at an object does not mean you are working the "muscle" to pull said object, it just means you are burning iron and happen to be staring. With soothers it is different, as they are "flexing" their soothing "muscle," and eventually enough "muscle" is being worked to provide a response, in the same fashion that one person pulling on a rope is not usually enough to move a car, but with enough people pulling, the car will eventually move.

 

We do know, though, that with enough raw ability, eventually the blue line will appear and one could, in theory, pull. Is that not how Inquisitors see people? blue lines leading to the trace metals in a person's body?

[Scriptorian he/him]

We do know, though, that with enough raw ability, eventually the blue line will appear and one could, in theory, pull. Is that not how Inquisitors see people? blue lines leading to the trace metals in a person's body?

But I think it's generally assumed that Inquisitors can't pull on these trace metals they see, regardless of the blue lines involved. So this would suggest that blue lines does not equal pulling ability. Though this doesn't necessarily mean you can pull without the blue lines. 

 

Edit: As a semi-random aside, I had a dream last night that I was a Lurcher. Though, I had trouble pulling on just a coin. Kind of disappointing. 

Edited January 13, 2015 by Serendipity

[Oudeis he/him]

I'm going to say no. With no line, no pulling can be done. Burning iron and staring at an object does not mean you are working the "muscle" to pull said object, it just means you are burning iron and happen to be staring. With soothers it is different, as they are "flexing" their soothing "muscle," and eventually enough "muscle" is being worked to provide a response, in the same fashion that one person pulling on a rope is not usually enough to move a car, but with enough people pulling, the car will eventually move.

 

We do know, though, that with enough raw ability, eventually the blue line will appear and one could, in theory, pull. Is that not how Inquisitors see people? blue lines leading to the trace metals in a person's body?

 

I fully agree with you, this is one model for how it works. However, I don't think it's the only one.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is, how does "Soothing" work? You look at a person, think of an emotion, and concentrate on damping it down in your target. If you do it on a koloss, you have no direct sensory feedback telling you it's not affecting him. Think of Breeze and Sazed. Breeze tried to Soothe Sazed's sorrow early in Hero of Ages, not realizing that Sazed was in the throes of such depression that it wasn't doing very much. So my question... can you uselessly Soothe other things? If I stare at this bottle of soda on my desk, burn brass, and try to reduce it's happiness... am I doing anything? Or not? How is it different from Soothing a koloss, who will be similarly unaffected... until, of course, you get enough power to overcome the Flaw.

 

So basically, this is my question. Do we know that you cannot even focus on a piece of metal with allomantic iron until the blue lines appear? Or is it like Soothing, where the Investiture inside of you can be directed by your will, even against targets which are resisting you, until such time as you overcome the resistance?

 

But I think it's generally assumed that Inquisitors can't pull on these trace metals they see, regardless of the blue lines involved. So this would suggest that blue lines does not equal pulling ability. Though this doesn't necessarily mean you can pull without the blue lines. 

 

Edit: As a semi-random aside, I had a dream last night that I was a Lurcher. Though, I had trouble pulling on just a coin. Kind of disappointing. 

 

Thank you, Serendipity.

 

I tend to have disappointing super-powered dreams. They usually operate like games of make-believe, where I don't actually have powers, everyone just "follows the rules" as if I did. Once I had the power to shoot fire from my hands. The bad guys sent swarms of minions running at me down a stairwell. I raised my hands above my head and screamed, "FIRE!" and even though nothing happened, they all politely turned and walked out the door of whatever landing they were on, playing the part of "we're burned to ash now".

[Blaze1616 he/him]

I fully agree with you, this is one model for how it works. However, I don't think it's the only one.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is, how does "Soothing" work? You look at a person, think of an emotion, and concentrate on damping it down in your target. If you do it on a koloss, you have no direct sensory feedback telling you it's not affecting him. Think of Breeze and Sazed. Breeze tried to Soothe Sazed's sorrow early in Hero of Ages, not realizing that Sazed was in the throes of such depression that it wasn't doing very much. So my question... can you uselessly Soothe other things? If I stare at this bottle of soda on my desk, burn brass, and try to reduce it's happiness... am I doing anything? Or not? How is it different from Soothing a koloss, who will be similarly unaffected... until, of course, you get enough power to overcome the Flaw.

 

So basically, this is my question. Do we know that you cannot even focus on a piece of metal with allomantic iron until the blue lines appear? Or is it like Soothing, where the Investiture inside of you can be directed by your will, even against targets which are resisting you, until such time as you overcome the resistance?

 

Ah, my misunderstanding then. Apologies.

[Oudeis he/him]

You could be totally right; in fact, you probably are. Since there is sensory feedback in the external physical metals, we know there there must be at least that much difference in the models of how Soothing and Ironpulls work. For all I know, I'm comparing a flashlight to a garden hose. It's just a random brainstorm that occurred to me today that I wanted to share.

[Dunkum he/him]

But I think it's generally assumed that Inquisitors can't pull on these trace metals they see, regardless of the blue lines involved. So this would suggest that blue lines does not equal pulling ability. Though this doesn't necessarily mean you can pull without the blue lines. 

Seems to me, then, that if you had enough inquisitors, pulling in the right direction on those lines, you would probably succeed.  Basically I think this, inquisitors or other skilled lurchers seeing lines but being too weak to affect them, is what most closely resembles the example of multiple soothers controling the koloss.

 

that said, in Alloy of Law, Wax has the ability to create a kind of general repuling field around him that doesn't target any metal until it comes in range, so going by that example, a bunch of lurchers might be able to do something similar, and if they all pulled in roughly the same direction, it migth work out.