Aluminum Hemalurgy

[Verdance he/him]

So, how does an Aluminum spike work? Do you still have to kill someone for it to become Hemalurgically charged, or does it activate inside of the victims body?
Could someone possibly fire an aluminum bullet through their own body into someone else’s to remove their powers?

most importantly, where do I get instant noodles? I am all out

Edited February 5 by edgyswordname

[Oranjejuicemonki He/Him]

Wait that's so weird.

I've never thought of that before, now my brain is broken

Alright, found a WoB:

Quote

Pagerunner

The Hemalurgy table, you wrote down "atium steals any power, lerasium is all abilities, nicrosil is Investiture"; what's the difference between those three?

Hemalurgic atium, lerasium, and nicrosil. What's powers, abilities, and Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

People are Invested in ways that do not give them active powers. So for instance, everyone on Nalthis is Invested. Everyone in the cosmere is, really. You want to steal their Investiture, but they don't have a power. You're still ripping off a piece of their soul. So there is a distinction between the actual Investiture that's in a human being and a specific power that they have.

So that distinction is pretty easy. You can also, with Hemalurgy, steal specific things. You can steal just general Investiture. You can steal, if you want--this is where the kandra Blessings come from. You can instead steal specific things that are not like stealing Allomancy. Stealing, for instance, someone's mental acuity.

Pagerunner

So abilities is like the half that's all the strength, speed, all that kind of stuff? Those are abilities, versus the Metallic Arts are all powers?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Pagerunner

Then Investiture, is that offworld magics?

Brandon Sanderson

No, no, it's the raw power.

Pagerunner

Nicrosil is their soul?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. A piece of their soul, essentially.

Pagerunner

So how would you go about stealing an offworld power?

Brandon Sanderson

It's going to depend. A Breath, you would steal with nicrosil. It's general Investiture, is what you would probably going call that. You could forcibly remove someone's Breath from them. The ability to be a Sand Master you would steal with the power ability.

JordanCon 2021 (July 16, 2021)

Not what you were asking but at the end there it say "The ability to be a Sand Master you would steal with the power ability." I think the aluminum removes powers was a typo and it meant steals powers so you do use an aluminum spike on someone else and take a specific invested art from them once you put the spike in someone else.

That's my take.

EDIT: Nevermind, I didn't realize it literally doesn't say aluminum anywhere in that WoB. Idk what I was on. 

Edited February 8 by Oranjejuicemonki

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, edgyswordname said:

So, how does an Aluminum spike work?

We do not know. We expect to learn these answers in Era 3. Some believe that an Aluminum spike needs to be hemalurgically charged, other's do not. Some believe the "removes all powers" is because the Donor is losing abilities to the spike (if they survive) but the hemalurgist cannot gain those powers because of the properties of Aluminum.. 

Either way, hiting a very exact bind point with an aluminum spike bullet is probably beyond anybody without Shardic intervention. Wax didn't need to hit a Bind point in SoS, just get a second spike anywhere into Bleeder - because Sazed was involved.

Hope that helps 

Edited February 6 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Verdance he/him]

33 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

We do not know. We expect to learn these answers in Era 3. Some beleive that an Aluminum spike needs ot be hemalurgically charged, other's do not. Some believe the "removes all powers" is because the Donor is losing abilities to the spike (if they survive) but the hemalurgist cannot gain those powers because of the properties of Aluminum.. 

Either way, hiting a very exact bind point with an aluminum spike bullet is probably beyond anybody without Shardic intervention. Wax didn't need t hit a Bind point in SoS, just get a second spike anywhere into Bleeder - because Sazed was involved.

Hope that helps 

Very very interesting 

[Nitpicking]

On 2/5/2026 at 7:30 PM, Oranjejuicemonki said:

Not what you were asking but at the end there it say "The ability to be a Sand Master you would steal with the power ability." I think the aluminum removes powers was a typo and it meant steals powers so you do use an aluminum spike on someone else and take a specific invested art from them once you put the spike in someone else.

The WoB quoted above says that Atium is needed to steal all powers. It's much more consistent with what burning aluminum does (remove all metals) to have aluminum hemalurgy remove all powers. The Coppermind agrees with me.

It isn't clear how that would work. Does charging the spike remove all powers, but then you could remove the powers from someone else by spiking them?

[Oranjejuicemonki He/Him]

14 minutes ago, Nitpicking said:

The WoB quoted above says that Atium is needed to steal all powers.

Whoops, thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't noticed I put in a completely unrelated WoB lol

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Could be that Aluminum technically does steal powers, but since Aluminum is an Investiture Sink, the stolen chunk of the soul gets sent straight to the Spiritual Realm instead of remaining in the spike. Like how burning aluminum sends all metals in your system straight to the Spiritual Realm with no effect.

[Trusk'our he/him]

45 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Could be that Aluminum technically does steal powers, but since Aluminum is an Investiture Sink, the stolen chunk of the soul gets sent straight to the Spiritual Realm instead of remaining in the spike. Like how burning aluminum sends all metals in your system straight to the Spiritual Realm with no effect.

I just have to jump in and say ditto on that. This is my current assumption for how aluminum Hemalurgy would work.

[Shadeshadow227]

On 2/7/2026 at 10:51 PM, JustQuestin2004 said:

Could be that Aluminum technically does steal powers, but since Aluminum is an Investiture Sink, the stolen chunk of the soul gets sent straight to the Spiritual Realm instead of remaining in the spike. Like how burning aluminum sends all metals in your system straight to the Spiritual Realm with no effect.

If that was the case, Aluminum wouldn't be able to make Hemalurgic spikes in the first place.

The Investiture is what makes Hemalurgic spikes able to interface with the recipient's spiritweb.

In this case, I'm pretty sure Aluminum does take something, and the Investiture is still in the spike, it's just that the arcane properties of Aluminum, being Investiture-inert, would likely create a blockage in the spiritweb of the target once it touches the spiritweb directly, stopping the flow of Investiture that would enable someone's Invested Art.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Shadeshadow227 said:

If that was the case, Aluminum wouldn't be able to make Hemalurgic spikes in the first place.

The Investiture is what makes Hemalurgic spikes able to interface with the recipient's spiritweb.

In this case, I'm pretty sure Aluminum does take something, and the Investiture is still in the spike, it's just that the arcane properties of Aluminum, being Investiture-inert, would likely create a blockage in the spiritweb of the target once it touches the spiritweb directly, stopping the flow of Investiture that would enable someone's Invested Art.

Not necessarily. The spikes are univested from the start, they just cut off parts of the spiritweb that serves as the investiture later.

In that case(and as is my personal belief) aluminum spikes do not retain a charge they merely once inserted into the spiritweb break it apart.

[Verdance he/him]

Woah you guys got real Invested in this topic after I was gone

:3

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, edgyswordname said:

Woah you guys got real Invested in this topic after I was gone

:3

Friend, you have no idea.

[Verdance he/him]

Just now, Trusk'our said:

Friend, you have no idea.

I’m just going to operate on the assumption that aluminum blocks powers while it’s being used on a victim, but does not permanently steal from the victim. (This being sort of consistent with how aluminum works, blocking powers but not for instance deleting a Nahel bond) Then, when it is invested and permanently implanted, it removes all powers from that person. 

[Shadeshadow227]

11 hours ago, Frustration said:

Not necessarily. The spikes are univested from the start, they just cut off parts of the spiritweb that serves as the investiture later.

In that case(and as is my personal belief) aluminum spikes do not retain a charge they merely once inserted into the spiritweb break it apart.

The spikes are unInvested initially, yes, but the Investiture gained from the donor is how they can interface with the spiritweb of the recipient.

Stabbing someone through the heart with an aluminum spike, in most cases where the person being stabbed is the donor, just kills them. There's not really a reason for Aluminum to just carve off a piece of the spiritweb and not hold onto it.

Even considering what Aluminum is, an Investiture-inert material, it doesn't make sense that it can't hold a charge. Aluminum blocks effects that would otherwise function through it, if it blocks Invested signals, that means that whatever particles are being used for those signals bounce off or otherwise stop, essentially confirming that Investiture can physically interact with Aluminum. Aluminum also cannot be altered by Invested processes performed upon it, because it's inert, those reactions cannot occur.

However, in the cases where we see Aluminum actively being used in the context of an Invested Art (specifically, all three Metallic Arts), Investiture-driven reactions already do not occur to the Aluminum.

Allomancy pulls Investiture from Preservation, that is then filtered through the metal being burned, but the ability to burn metals does not require expending Investiture to initiate. It seems similar to how the spores work on Lumar, a chemical reaction involving an unInvested catalyst that results in Investiture being drawn from the Spiritual Realm. What's being done to the Aluminum is because of the reaction to enhance the Connection to Preservation, which does not use Investiture, it produces Investiture, which is then affected by the metal being burned to generate a specific effect.

Feruchemy and Hemalurgy also do not involve Investiture reacting with the Aluminum in the spikes and metalminds that a Hemalurgist or Feruchemist use. The Investiture is attached to the structure of the metal, but that's seemingly a physical reaction. Like, if I press a nail into a container of glue, there's going to be glue on the nail when it's pulled out, even though the glue probably isn't chemically-reacting with the nail. It's just stuck onto it.

As far as I can tell, Feruchemical and Hemalurgic charges are just kinda stuck onto the metal, they're not doing anything to the metal itself. So Aluminum should hold a charge.

[Trusk'our he/him]

35 minutes ago, Shadeshadow227 said:

The spikes are unInvested initially, yes, but the Investiture gained from the donor is how they can interface with the spiritweb of the recipient.

Stabbing someone through the heart with an aluminum spike, in most cases where the person being stabbed is the donor, just kills them. There's not really a reason for Aluminum to just carve off a piece of the spiritweb and not hold onto it.

Even considering what Aluminum is, an Investiture-inert material, it doesn't make sense that it can't hold a charge. Aluminum blocks effects that would otherwise function through it, if it blocks Invested signals, that means that whatever particles are being used for those signals bounce off or otherwise stop, essentially confirming that Investiture can physically interact with Aluminum. Aluminum also cannot be altered by Invested processes performed upon it, because it's inert, those reactions cannot occur.

However, in the cases where we see Aluminum actively being used in the context of an Invested Art (specifically, all three Metallic Arts), Investiture-driven reactions already do not occur to the Aluminum.

Allomancy pulls Investiture from Preservation, that is then filtered through the metal being burned, but the ability to burn metals does not require expending Investiture to initiate. It seems similar to how the spores work on Lumar, a chemical reaction involving an unInvested catalyst that results in Investiture being drawn from the Spiritual Realm. What's being done to the Aluminum is because of the reaction to enhance the Connection to Preservation, which does not use Investiture, it produces Investiture, which is then affected by the metal being burned to generate a specific effect.

Feruchemy and Hemalurgy also do not involve Investiture reacting with the Aluminum in the spikes and metalminds that a Hemalurgist or Feruchemist use. The Investiture is attached to the structure of the metal, but that's seemingly a physical reaction. Like, if I press a nail into a container of glue, there's going to be glue on the nail when it's pulled out, even though the glue probably isn't chemically-reacting with the nail. It's just stuck onto it.

As far as I can tell, Feruchemical and Hemalurgic charges are just kinda stuck onto the metal, they're not doing anything to the metal itself. So Aluminum should hold a charge.

How does Emotional Allomancy factor into this hypothesis?

Investiture projected by Emotional Allomancers cannot penetrate aluminum, and there's even a field effect that will block it from a small surrounding area.

[Shadeshadow227]

15 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

How does Emotional Allomancy factor into this hypothesis?

Investiture projected by Emotional Allomancers cannot penetrate aluminum, and there's even a field effect that will block it from a small surrounding area.

Emotional Allomancy presumably uses some form of Invested signal, which Aluminum would interfere with, because it can physically interact with it. The field thing is odd, but I think that can just kinda be chalked up to weird cognitive stuff, silver does that kind of thing too and it also interacts with Investiture weirdly.

My hypothesis is that while Investiture-driven reactions (arcane reactions? Investiture reactions don't really seem to be chemical, they can cause chemical reactions, but I'm not really sure what to call Invested reactions overall) cannot happen to Aluminum, Investiture can still physically interact with Aluminum, and Feruchemy and Hemalurgy both use physical reactions (which aren't really reactions at all, because nothing happens chemically, but "physical reaction" is still the common phrasing for physical structure changes without chemical changes) with Investiture, in order to charge the metals being used with power, by basically sticking Investiture onto it.

Aluminum blocking emotional allomancy actively supports this, because that's just further evidence of Aluminum being able to physically interact with Investiture. If physical interaction couldn't happen, the signal would go through unimpeded. If Investiture can bounce off of Aluminum, why wouldn't it be able to stick if something tried to stick Investiture onto a piece of Aluminum?

Edited February 13 by Shadeshadow227

[Frustration]

8 hours ago, Shadeshadow227 said:

The spikes are unInvested initially, yes, but the Investiture gained from the donor is how they can interface with the spiritweb of the recipient.

Stabbing someone through the heart with an aluminum spike, in most cases where the person being stabbed is the donor, just kills them. There's not really a reason for Aluminum to just carve off a piece of the spiritweb and not hold onto it.

Even considering what Aluminum is, an Investiture-inert material, it doesn't make sense that it can't hold a charge. Aluminum blocks effects that would otherwise function through it, if it blocks Invested signals, that means that whatever particles are being used for those signals bounce off or otherwise stop, essentially confirming that Investiture can physically interact with Aluminum. Aluminum also cannot be altered by Invested processes performed upon it, because it's inert, those reactions cannot occur.

However, in the cases where we see Aluminum actively being used in the context of an Invested Art (specifically, all three Metallic Arts), Investiture-driven reactions already do not occur to the Aluminum.

Allomancy pulls Investiture from Preservation, that is then filtered through the metal being burned, but the ability to burn metals does not require expending Investiture to initiate. It seems similar to how the spores work on Lumar, a chemical reaction involving an unInvested catalyst that results in Investiture being drawn from the Spiritual Realm. What's being done to the Aluminum is because of the reaction to enhance the Connection to Preservation, which does not use Investiture, it produces Investiture, which is then affected by the metal being burned to generate a specific effect.

Feruchemy and Hemalurgy also do not involve Investiture reacting with the Aluminum in the spikes and metalminds that a Hemalurgist or Feruchemist use. The Investiture is attached to the structure of the metal, but that's seemingly a physical reaction. Like, if I press a nail into a container of glue, there's going to be glue on the nail when it's pulled out, even though the glue probably isn't chemically-reacting with the nail. It's just stuck onto it.

As far as I can tell, Feruchemical and Hemalurgic charges are just kinda stuck onto the metal, they're not doing anything to the metal itself. So Aluminum should hold a charge.

That seems a meaningless distinction to me, and we have examples of other investiture being unable to act against Aluminum despite not occurring to the Aluminum.

SA

Spoiler

Examples include Shardblades, do not invest the objects they cut but are rather themselves Invested. Aluminum is unaffected by the Shardblades own properties.

When used in Allomancy the power of Preservation tries to force it's way through the aluminum, when aluminum's natural interference plays in it negates that power of Preservation and nothing is gained from it. That aluminum does not become investiture.

On Feruchemy, I personally am a part of the camp that believes that you cannot tap aluminumminds and any Identity stored is simply destroyed. Thus the aluminum is not investiture.

In Hemalurgy aluminum can break apart the spiritweb but it doesn't become charged unto itself, and no one could benefit from receiving a charged aluminum spike.

By this interpretation aluminum interacts with all of the metalic arts in their initial stage, but negates the investiture that the other metals are based around.

If that makes any sense.

[Shadeshadow227]

12 hours ago, Frustration said:

That seems a meaningless distinction to me, and we have examples of other investiture being unable to act against Aluminum despite not occurring to the Aluminum.

SA

  Hide contents

Examples include Shardblades, do not invest the objects they cut but are rather themselves Invested. Aluminum is unaffected by the Shardblades own properties.

When used in Allomancy the power of Preservation tries to force it's way through the aluminum, when aluminum's natural interference plays in it negates that power of Preservation and nothing is gained from it. That aluminum does not become investiture.

On Feruchemy, I personally am a part of the camp that believes that you cannot tap aluminumminds and any Identity stored is simply destroyed. Thus the aluminum is not investiture.

In Hemalurgy aluminum can break apart the spiritweb but it doesn't become charged unto itself, and no one could benefit from receiving a charged aluminum spike.

By this interpretation aluminum interacts with all of the metalic arts in their initial stage, but negates the investiture that the other metals are based around.

If that makes any sense.

First of all, it's not a meaningless distinction. We know that Investiture and Invested processes treat Aluminum as a solid, inert material that can block whatever would be done to it, as evidenced by how Investiture can be blocked or otherwise contained by aluminum walls, boxes, or objects.

SA spoilers:

Spoiler

A Shardblade would also have to Invest an object in order to cut how it does (or at the very least, it's Investiture would need to interact with the spiritwebs/cognitive aspects of other objects, which can be considered Investing them in order to produce a specific effect), and we know that the process that enables Shardblades to cut through inorganic objects easily does not work on aluminum. A Shardblade doesn't cut like how a knife cuts, as evidenced by the fact that when someone's limbs are "cut", they are not physically severed, and the relative sharpness of a shardblade seems to be irrelevant for cutting regardless (you still need an edge to cut, but wood and stone are both about as easy to cut as anything else, and there isn't really notable resistance when trying to cut anything that isn't Invested or made of aluminum).

A Shardblade could still cut a thin enough sheet of aluminum, however, because it is still a sword, and aluminum can interact physically with Invested items and even solidified Investiture metals (as evidenced by the fact that a shardblade can be deflected by aluminum). So physical interaction between aluminum and Investiture can occur, there is no reason why aluminum would repel Investiture or otherwise be unable to hold a charge. Aluminum is inert, that just means it doesn't react with Investiture, that does not mean that Aluminum would destroy a charge stored within a spike or a metalmind.

If aluminum negated Investiture, then all someone would have to do to kill or injure a bonded spren is just hit it with a piece of aluminum, because spren are made of Investiture. If aluminum negated Investiture, then aluminum would destroy spren, but it doesn't. It can trap them, because they interact physically with it, but it does not hurt them.

Aluminum doesn't become Investiture when burned, in Allomancy. No metal does, technically. All that burning a metal does is expand a Scadrian's Connection to Preservation briefly, to allow them to siphon Investiture from Preservation as long as the enhanced Connection lasts. That Investiture is then affected by the metal being burned, to produce the Allomantic effect within the user. It's a reaction that pokes a hole into the spiritual realm, that then allows Investiture to flow out through that gap, it's not a matter-Investiture conversion, and the metal is not affected by the Investiture, the Investiture is affected by the metal.

Also, Aluminum does have an effect when burned: The instantaneous metabolization of other Allomantic metals in the body, including those that are not actively being burned. It doesn't "do nothing", it gets rid of all of your metals, which is an effect beyond simply "disrupting Investiture". Allomantic metals aren't Invested, if all Aluminum did when burned is disrupt the power of Preservation, it wouldn't affect metal reserves that weren't actively being used. Aluminum negates Allomancy and disrupts Investiture when burned because that's the Allomantic effect it has, similar to Chromium.

Aluminum doesn't destroy Investiture innately. There is a metal which does do that, and Aluminum does not have the same effects that that metal does. The two are even compared at several points.

Spoilers for Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell, Tress of the Emerald Sea, and Isles of the Emberdark:

Spoiler

Silver consistently damages, destroys, or kills certain corrupted forms of Investiture or Invested matter, either on direct contact (shades from Threnody), or ambiently (aether spores on Lumar).

Aluminum does not have the same deleterious effect on those materials, and will even shield aether spores from the negative effects of silver, keeping them active. On Lumar, the room for a ship's sprouter is generally lined with aluminum, to prevent the silver otherwise around the ship from killing any spores the sprouter may be working with, and spore-based machinery often uses aluminum components for the same purpose, to prevent nearby silver from rendering the spores useless.

Nazh, by the time of Emberdark, is a shade, albeit a sentient one who has kept his personality and memories through unknown means. It's established that he cannot pass through silver or aluminum, but only silver is described as actively dangerous to him. Silver, upon contact with a shade, will emit sparks and partially damage or destroy it, blackening the silver and rendering it unusable. Enough silver is stated to be able to completely destroy a shade.

Aluminum does not do the same thing. Aluminum can trap Nazh, but only silver will kill him.

In conclusion, there's no reason an aluminum metalmind or a spike would be unable to retain Investiture, especially since Feruchemy and Hemalurgy do not affect the materials being used. Investiture can clearly exist on and around Aluminum, so Feruchemy and Hemalurgy should work without issue.

[Frustration]

8 hours ago, Shadeshadow227 said:

First of all, it's not a meaningless distinction. We know that Investiture and Invested processes treat Aluminum as a solid, inert material that can block whatever would be done to it, as evidenced by how Investiture can be blocked or otherwise contained by aluminum walls, boxes, or objects.

SA spoilers:

  Hide contents

A Shardblade would also have to Invest an object in order to cut how it does (or at the very least, it's Investiture would need to interact with the spiritwebs/cognitive aspects of other objects, which can be considered Investing them in order to produce a specific effect), and we know that the process that enables Shardblades to cut through inorganic objects easily does not work on aluminum. A Shardblade doesn't cut like how a knife cuts, as evidenced by the fact that when someone's limbs are "cut", they are not physically severed, and the relative sharpness of a shardblade seems to be irrelevant for cutting regardless (you still need an edge to cut, but wood and stone are both about as easy to cut as anything else, and there isn't really notable resistance when trying to cut anything that isn't Invested or made of aluminum).

A Shardblade could still cut a thin enough sheet of aluminum, however, because it is still a sword, and aluminum can interact physically with Invested items and even solidified Investiture metals (as evidenced by the fact that a shardblade can be deflected by aluminum). So physical interaction between aluminum and Investiture can occur, there is no reason why aluminum would repel Investiture or otherwise be unable to hold a charge. Aluminum is inert, that just means it doesn't react with Investiture, that does not mean that Aluminum would destroy a charge stored within a spike or a metalmind.

If aluminum negated Investiture, then all someone would have to do to kill or injure a bonded spren is just hit it with a piece of aluminum, because spren are made of Investiture. If aluminum negated Investiture, then aluminum would destroy spren, but it doesn't. It can trap them, because they interact physically with it, but it does not hurt them.

Aluminum doesn't become Investiture when burned, in Allomancy. No metal does, technically. All that burning a metal does is expand a Scadrian's Connection to Preservation briefly, to allow them to siphon Investiture from Preservation as long as the enhanced Connection lasts. That Investiture is then affected by the metal being burned, to produce the Allomantic effect within the user. It's a reaction that pokes a hole into the spiritual realm, that then allows Investiture to flow out through that gap, it's not a matter-Investiture conversion, and the metal is not affected by the Investiture, the Investiture is affected by the metal.

Also, Aluminum does have an effect when burned: The instantaneous metabolization of other Allomantic metals in the body, including those that are not actively being burned. It doesn't "do nothing", it gets rid of all of your metals, which is an effect beyond simply "disrupting Investiture". Allomantic metals aren't Invested, if all Aluminum did when burned is disrupt the power of Preservation, it wouldn't affect metal reserves that weren't actively being used. Aluminum negates Allomancy and disrupts Investiture when burned because that's the Allomantic effect it has, similar to Chromium.

Aluminum doesn't destroy Investiture innately. There is a metal which does do that, and Aluminum does not have the same effects that that metal does. The two are even compared at several points.

Spoilers for Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell, Tress of the Emerald Sea, and Isles of the Emberdark:

  Reveal hidden contents

Silver consistently damages, destroys, or kills certain corrupted forms of Investiture or Invested matter, either on direct contact (shades from Threnody), or ambiently (aether spores on Lumar).

Aluminum does not have the same deleterious effect on those materials, and will even shield aether spores from the negative effects of silver, keeping them active. On Lumar, the room for a ship's sprouter is generally lined with aluminum, to prevent the silver otherwise around the ship from killing any spores the sprouter may be working with, and spore-based machinery often uses aluminum components for the same purpose, to prevent nearby silver from rendering the spores useless.

Nazh, by the time of Emberdark, is a shade, albeit a sentient one who has kept his personality and memories through unknown means. It's established that he cannot pass through silver or aluminum, but only silver is described as actively dangerous to him. Silver, upon contact with a shade, will emit sparks and partially damage or destroy it, blackening the silver and rendering it unusable. Enough silver is stated to be able to completely destroy a shade.

Aluminum does not do the same thing. Aluminum can trap Nazh, but only silver will kill him.

In conclusion, there's no reason an aluminum metalmind or a spike would be unable to retain Investiture, especially since Feruchemy and Hemalurgy do not affect the materials being used. Investiture can clearly exist on and around Aluminum, so Feruchemy and Hemalurgy should work without issue.

Aluminum does not negate, it is immune.

And yes metals used by allomancers do become investiture as Vendel tells Wax at the start of TLM.

And yes there are very good reasons for Aluminum to not be able to be used as spikes or metalminds, not the least of which is it's inability to be soulcast.

The Hemalurgy chart does not list an affect that Aluminum gives to a recipient. It simply says that it removes all powers. All other metals say steal, aluminum is removes.

[Shadeshadow227]

6 hours ago, Frustration said:

Aluminum does not negate, it is immune.

And yes metals used by allomancers do become investiture as Vendel tells Wax at the start of TLM.

And yes there are very good reasons for Aluminum to not be able to be used as spikes or metalminds, not the least of which is it's inability to be soulcast.

The Hemalurgy chart does not list an affect that Aluminum gives to a recipient. It simply says that it removes all powers. All other metals say steal, aluminum is removes.

I'm pretty sure I know which part of TLM you're referring to. I'm now going to directly quote from the text and explain why you're wrong.

TLM Spoilers:

Spoiler

"Investiture,” VenDell said. “The essence of the gods. Everything has an Invested component, normally inaccessible without certain abilities. When you burn metals, Lord Ladrian, you pull Investiture directly from the Spiritual Realm and use it to do work. Much like energy does work in those lights. But here is the key idea: Investiture, matter, and energy are all the same, fundamentally.”

This is consistent with how Allomancy and other similar mechanisms are said to work. Allomantic metals don't become Investiture, the reaction that consumes the metal opens a link to Preservation that allows an Allomancer to obtain Investiture for as long as the metal is burning, pulling it from the Spiritual Realm, with that Investiture being affected by the metal and immediately being expended on its associated effect.

Also, aluminum being unable to be soulcast doesn't mean it actively refuses to hold any sort of Invested charge. As previously established, Investiture can exist on or around aluminum without issue, aluminum is even used as a containment material or as shielding against Invested effects.

Aluminum is just confirmed to be unaffected by any Invested effects that would conduct through or otherwise alter or affect the material. You can't soulcast aluminum, yeah, but that's an Investiture reaction that would alter the aluminum itself.

Feruchemy and Hemalurgy don't change the materials used for them, there's just Investiture attached to those. "Aluminum can't be soulcast, therefore it cannot hold a Feruchemical charge" is like arguing that a material can't be glued to something else because it doesn't chemically react with water.

Soulcasting is, essentially, an Invested chemical reaction (though it's closer to a nuclear reaction, due to the atoms being changed into atoms of different elements when you convert a rock into oil or air, either way it's a reaction, the material is being altered into a different material, like how hydrogen and oxygen produce water when heated, h2 and o2 become h2o). Hemalurgy and Feruchemy just glue Investiture to the metal, there's no reaction there.

There are chemically-inert materials in real life which do not react with other substances, and you can still attach things to them without needing a chemical reaction. Aluminum is Investiture-inert, not chemically-inert, but it's safe to assume the same logic holds true.

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Shadeshadow227 said:

Soulcasting is, essentially, an Invested chemical reaction (though it's closer to a nuclear reaction, due to the atoms being changed into atoms of different elements when you convert a rock into oil or air, either way it's a reaction, the material is being altered into a different material, like how hydrogen and oxygen produce water when heated, h2 and o2 become h2o). Hemalurgy and Feruchemy just glue Investiture to the metal, there's no reaction there.

I do not believe that metals holding Investiture counts as non-reaction.

Compounding's core concept revolves around overwriting the spiritual pattern of a metal with a Feruchemical charge.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=Compounding%2C+overwrite

Lyndsey Luther

Ok, last question. It was really difficult coming up with three questions that haven’t been asked already...

Brandon Sanderson

OK... you’re not going to ask me the “what would you ask me” question?

Lyndsey Luther

Not quite...

Brandon Sanderson

OK good, because I hate that one! (laughs)

Lyndsey Luther

My question is if there’s anything that you’ve never been asked that you would like to talk about?

Brandon Sanderson

Oooooh, ok. Hm. That one is so hard! Every time people ask me something like this... What have I never been asked that people should be asking, is basically what the question is? Something that the fans have just missed... They pick up on so much, that it’s hard... I do wonder if, you know… all the magic systems [in my books] are connected and work on some basic fundamental principles, and a lot of people haven’t been asking questions about this. One thing I did get a question on today, and I’ll just talk about this one... they didn’t ask the right question, but I nudged them the right way, is understanding that tie between AonDor [the magic system from Elantris] and Allomancy [Mistborn’s magic system].

People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway. It’s actually the molecular structure of the metal… what’s going on there, the pattern, the resonance of that metal works in the same way as an Aon does in Elantris. It filters the power. So it is just a sign of “this is what power this energy is going to be shaped into and give you.” When you understand that, Compounding [in Alloy of Law] makes much more sense.

Compounding is where you are able to kind of draw in more power than you should with Feruchemy. What’s going on there is you’re actually charging a piece of metal, and then you are burning that metal as a Feruchemical charge. What is happening is that the Feruchemical charge overwrites the Allomantic charge, and so you actually fuel Feruchemy with Allomancy, is what you are doing. Then if you just get out another piece of metal and store it in, since you’re not drawing the power from yourself, you’re cheating the system, you’re short-circuiting the system a little bit. So you can actually use the power that usually fuels Allomancy, to fuel Feruchemy, which you can then store in a metalmind, and basically build up these huge reservoirs of it. So what’s going on there is… imagine there’s like, an imprint, a wavelength, so to speak. A beat for an Allomantic thing, that when you burn a metal, it says “ok, this is what power we give.” When it’s got that charge, it changes that beat and says, “now we get this power.” And you access a set of Feruchemical power. That’s why Compounding is so powerful.

Hemalurgic spikes have a similar phenomenon where burning them splices the spikes' Spiritweb to that of the Allomancer. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/210-torcom-qa-with-brandon-sanderson/#e4616

Maru Nui

What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson

Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person's that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences.

 

[Shadeshadow227]

13 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I do not believe that metals holding Investiture counts as non-reaction.

Compounding's core concept revolves around overwriting the spiritual pattern of a metal with a Feruchemical charge.

  Hide contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=Compounding%2C+overwrite

Lyndsey Luther

Ok, last question. It was really difficult coming up with three questions that haven’t been asked already...

Brandon Sanderson

OK... you’re not going to ask me the “what would you ask me” question?

Lyndsey Luther

Not quite...

Brandon Sanderson

OK good, because I hate that one! (laughs)

Lyndsey Luther

My question is if there’s anything that you’ve never been asked that you would like to talk about?

Brandon Sanderson

Oooooh, ok. Hm. That one is so hard! Every time people ask me something like this... What have I never been asked that people should be asking, is basically what the question is? Something that the fans have just missed... They pick up on so much, that it’s hard... I do wonder if, you know… all the magic systems [in my books] are connected and work on some basic fundamental principles, and a lot of people haven’t been asking questions about this. One thing I did get a question on today, and I’ll just talk about this one... they didn’t ask the right question, but I nudged them the right way, is understanding that tie between AonDor [the magic system from Elantris] and Allomancy [Mistborn’s magic system].

People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway. It’s actually the molecular structure of the metal… what’s going on there, the pattern, the resonance of that metal works in the same way as an Aon does in Elantris. It filters the power. So it is just a sign of “this is what power this energy is going to be shaped into and give you.” When you understand that, Compounding [in Alloy of Law] makes much more sense.

Compounding is where you are able to kind of draw in more power than you should with Feruchemy. What’s going on there is you’re actually charging a piece of metal, and then you are burning that metal as a Feruchemical charge. What is happening is that the Feruchemical charge overwrites the Allomantic charge, and so you actually fuel Feruchemy with Allomancy, is what you are doing. Then if you just get out another piece of metal and store it in, since you’re not drawing the power from yourself, you’re cheating the system, you’re short-circuiting the system a little bit. So you can actually use the power that usually fuels Allomancy, to fuel Feruchemy, which you can then store in a metalmind, and basically build up these huge reservoirs of it. So what’s going on there is… imagine there’s like, an imprint, a wavelength, so to speak. A beat for an Allomantic thing, that when you burn a metal, it says “ok, this is what power we give.” When it’s got that charge, it changes that beat and says, “now we get this power.” And you access a set of Feruchemical power. That’s why Compounding is so powerful.

Hemalurgic spikes have a similar phenomenon where burning them splices the spikes' Spiritweb to that of the Allomancer. 

  Hide contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/210-torcom-qa-with-brandon-sanderson/#e4616

Maru Nui

What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson

Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person's that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences.

 

The thing is, we know that Allomancy can use other forms of Investiture, whether that's burning atium using up the Investiture contained in the godmetal instead of Preservation's own power or "blank" Investiture being able to be used as a powerful replacement for someone's metals. So it's likely that the effects of Compounding and an Allomancer hypothetically burning a hemalurgic spike is due to the Investiture contained within those materials interacting oddly with the flow of Investiture from Preservation when burned.

Feruchemy and Hemalurgy still don't really seem to alter the metals they affect, iron is still iron, aluminum is still aluminum, etc. Investiture is attached to them, and there are effects associated with that, but the materials aren't really changed or otherwise modified.