Hemalurgic-Nahel Bonds

[Trusk'our he/him]

Bonds are meant to be largely the same, where there's a Connection established between two entities (presumably with some kind of Identity alignment as well) and the contents of the two entities' Spiritwebs determining what, if any, powers get exchanged.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100-rbooks-ama-2015/#e3488

Thadamin

How important are bonds like the Nahel Bond and a seon bond in the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

I'd say very important.

Thadamin

Is this kind of bond relatively common or is what seons, spren, and Nightblood do little more rare among Splinters. I'm specifically talking about the act of making bonds not a giving of magic powers really, that appearing to be function of Roshar. Also regarding your post about Stormlight 3 I am personally okay with 2000 pages if need be so make the chapters as long as you want.:)

Brandon Sanderson

The bonding is basically the same mechanic, regardless of the world, just with different flavoring. Roshar isn't the only place where the bond gives powers; it's a matter of what's stuffed into the soul, and how.

What makes me interested here is what if a Hemalurgic construct that has one or more powers is bonded by an Allomancer/Feruchemist? Koloss can be Allomancers, after all, and if they can be bonded, perhaps their powers can also be accessed.

 

Mistborn wouldn't have noticed this in Era 1 since they already had all known Allomantic abilities and bonding multiple powered beings together isn't supposed to give much if any boost to abilities shared by both entities.

Furthermore, Koloss might not be able to access a Mistborn's power due to a lack of intelligence, or perhaps a lack of Intent (just like how Unsealed Metalminds cannot be accessed without a pre-existing knowledge of what they might be). Or maybe they just can't force it without the Metalborn's will, kind of like how a Spren can deny their Surgebinder their Surges if they go against their Oaths.

 

However, if it is possible for someone to access a Hemalurgic construct's power(s) via Metalborn bonding, I think it would be pretty interesting to see happen. Maybe an Emotional Allomancer and Nicroburst could work together to nab a few Koloss Allomancers' powers to add to the Emotional Allomancer's repertoire, or maybe a crafty and ambitious Mistborn could gain access to Feruchemy by transforming a Keeper into a Koloss brute so they don't have to damage their own Spiritweb.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Metalborn Bonding? 

I don't think we've ever seen a Nahel Bond be made with two humans, so far one participant of the bond is distinctly non-human. Whether it be a Splinter or a Bird.

If you're referring to how powerful Emotional Allomancy can let an Allomancer gain control over a Hemalurgic Construct like a Koloss, and form a Connection that allows for control even without burning metals, then that leads to an interesting question. What is Hemalurgic Control compared to a proper Nahel Bond?

A Nahel Bond is described as a linking of spirits, bonding on a spiritual level.

Hemalurgic Control, I believe has been described in WOB as "Knocking on someone's Cognitive Mind". And while it is confirmed to be possible to accomplish if one Compounds Spiritual Connection, I still don't believe it is the same thing as a proper Nahel Bond, since it seems to be more of a Cognitive Bond than a Spiritual Bond. Spirits aren't being linked in a deep, fundamental way, cognitive minds weakened through holes in the spiritweb are being dominated through abilities that cause cognitive pressure.

Now something that might be more plausible is making an Aviar Hemalurgic Construct that possesses more Talents, or a Spren given more Surges from other Spren, and bonding with that instead. So, you could have Aviar that grant multiple Talents or a Spren that grants multiple Surges to you without needing to spike yourself and leave yourself open to external influence.

Maybe you could even give an Aviar or Spren Metalborn powers and perhaps gain those powers by bonding them as well?

Combining the Nahel Bond with Hemalurgy does sound like a path to much greater power, rather than just stealing a Bond which would be far more complex and by WOB, would require you to use two spikes to get one power. Not a great deal.

[Trusk'our he/him]

46 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

If you're referring to how powerful Emotional Allomancy can let an Allomancer gain control over a Hemalurgic Construct like a Koloss, and form a Connection that allows for control even without burning metals

Yep, though Connector Ferrings should be able to do it too.

47 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

A Nahel Bond is described as a linking of spirits, bonding on a spiritual level.

Hemalurgic Control, I believe has been described in WOB as "Knocking on someone's Cognitive Mind". And while it is confirmed to be possible to accomplish if one Compounds Spiritual Connection, I still don't believe it is the same thing as a proper Nahel Bond, since it seems to be more of a Cognitive Bond than a Spiritual Bond. Spirits aren't being linked in a deep, fundamental way, cognitive minds weakened through holes in the spiritweb are being dominated through abilities that cause cognitive pressure.

I'd argue that Hemalurgic control is also spiritual, else why would having cracks in the Spiritweb matter? I believe that the influence gets in and affects the Spiritweb, which also has an effect on the Cognitive Aspect (though with Emotional Allomancy specifically it might be more a matter of targeting the Cognitive Aspect, but leaking into the Spiritual due to excessive cracking).

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/131-general-reddit-2016/#e3950

Commicommand

Does emotional Allomancy work on animals?

Brandon Sanderson

Emotional Allomancy requires a certain level of sapience.

Phantine

So dolphins, oragutans, mistwraiths and parrots might work?

Brandon Sanderson

I was intentionally vague.

A_Shadow

Huh, so that would mean that divine Breath (or just regular Breath?) works in a completely different underlying mechanism than emotional Allomancy in providing that calming effect for animals and children. I had previously thought it was just an overlap in abilities.

Brandon Sanderson

There is an overlap. But it involves playing with Spiritwebs and/or the Cognitive Realm.

 

51 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Now something that might be more plausible is making an Aviar Hemalurgic Construct that possesses more Talents, or a Spren given more Surges from other Spren, and bonding with that instead. So, you could have Aviar that grant multiple Talents or a Spren that grants multiple Surges to you without needing to spike yourself and leave yourself open to external influence.

Maybe you could even give an Aviar or Spren Metalborn powers and perhaps gain those powers by bonding them as well?

Combining the Nahel Bond with Hemalurgy does sound like a path to much greater power, rather than just stealing a Bond which would be far more complex and by WOB, would require you to use two spikes to get one power. Not a great deal.

Oh yes, this would be very powerful if done right.

Actually, if a Spren has cracks in its Spiritweb, could a Metalborn bond it without its consent? You trap and spike a Highspren, then use a duralumin-enhanced Soothing to attempt a bond of sorts.

Maybe you could even use this to bond and gain access to Lesser Spren abilities?

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

4 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I'd argue that Hemalurgic control is also spiritual, else why would having cracks in the Spiritweb matter? I believe that the influence gets in and affects the Spiritweb, which also has an effect on the Cognitive Aspect (though with Emotional Allomancy specifically it might be more a matter of targeting the Cognitive Aspect, but leaking into the Spiritual due to excessive cracking).

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/131-general-reddit-2016/#e3950

Commicommand

Does emotional Allomancy work on animals?

Brandon Sanderson

Emotional Allomancy requires a certain level of sapience.

Phantine

So dolphins, oragutans, mistwraiths and parrots might work?

Brandon Sanderson

I was intentionally vague.

A_Shadow

Huh, so that would mean that divine Breath (or just regular Breath?) works in a completely different underlying mechanism than emotional Allomancy in providing that calming effect for animals and children. I had previously thought it was just an overlap in abilities.

Brandon Sanderson

There is an overlap. But it involves playing with Spiritwebs and/or the Cognitive Realm.

 

Interesting, but being controlled by Ruin didn't grant the Inquisitors or Koloss any additional abilities, even though Connection to Preservation is what grants Allomancy.

Would Allomancy technically count as a Nahel Bond with Perseveration?

Anyway, so there are almost definitely different kinds of Bonds, not all Bonds lead to Nahel.

9 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Oh yes, this would be very powerful if done right.

Actually, if a Spren has cracks in its Spiritweb, could a Metalborn bond it without its consent? You trap and spike a Highspren, then use a duralumin-enhanced Soothing to attempt a bond of sorts.

Maybe you could even use this to bond and gain access to Lesser Spren abilities?

Now that is a very interesting extrapolation. Though it would likely require a very powerful Emotional Allomancer, likely burning Duralumin, because Spren are literally all Investiture, and its said by WOB that the Susebron with his 50,000+ Breaths would be much more resistant to Emotional Allomancy than an average person just because of how Invested he is.

But if it is doable, then yeah that might be a way to force the Nahel Bond and even make it grant more powers at once. Heck, you could use this to Spike multiple Spren with bunch of extra powers to grant, control them, then have them all Bond you at once and gain even more powers, since the only thing stopping Surgebinders from having multiple Bonds in practice is the consent of the Spren.

Lesser spren might be tricky though, since Emotional Allomancy requires Sapience in the WOB you showed, and Lesser Spren might not be sapient enough compared to Radiant Spren.

I assume a limitation to this method is that you probably wouldn't be able to progress your oaths to far if you are genuinely not a good fit for a particular order, like if you force Bonded the Highspren from your example, but were a law-breaking anarchist, you probably wouldn't be getting a Shardblade anytime soon if at all.

Plus, even with the most powerful Emotional Allomancer, even with a full on Shard controlling someone with twenty spikes, the control is not absolute, and the Bond is dependent on the Spren's consent, so more stubborn unwilling ones could try and try to break the Bond anyway if they decided that being a Deadeye was preferable to being a slave, which could lead to you losing out on all those extra powers. Unless a Spiked up Deadeye could still grant powers?

[Treamayne]

7 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Bonds are meant to be largely the same, where there's a Connection established between two entities (presumably with some kind of Identity alignment as well) and the contents of the two entities' Spiritwebs determining what, if any, powers get exchanged.

Nahel Bonds and Luhel Bonds are not really the same. The as-yet-unnamed Bond from Era 1 is likely the third Bond. Discussed here.
Excerpt (Spoilers for SA, Warbreaker, Tress, Yumi):

Spoiler

On 5/1/2024 at 2:20 PM, Treamayne said:

The bond I was talking about was the one formed by an Allomancer controlling a Hemalurgic Construct, which was specifically named to be a bond (of some type) and persists even when no metals are available or being burned. Summarized:

• Nahel Bond - the bond of Realmic Transition (a cognitive entity bonds to a physical entity and is pulled closer to the PR in echange for <effect>)
  • Radiant Bond
  • Singer Bond
  • Rosharan Lifeform Nahel Bonds (Skyeels, Greatshells, Rhyshadium, etc)
• Luhel Bond - Bond of Physical Transition (an entity in a Luhel Bond receives "matter", likely through a version of Elsecalling that transitions that matter through some unknown SR shenanigans, in exchange for <effect>)
  • Sand Mastery - The Sand received water from the Sand Master thorugh the bond (but no water is seen moving between them in the PR, hence the SR Elsecalling theory moving the matter without crossing intervening space) and the Sand Master gains some control of the sand and RSPs
    • RSP - RequiredSecondaryPowers - as seen after Kenton overmasters the second time
  • Sprouters - a Luhel Bond with some/any spores (e. g. Midnight, Verdant) trades control for water
• Unnamed Bond - The proposed third bond occurs when emotion is lapped against a cognitive Identity resulting in a measure of influence (up to and including control when the bond is strong enough); but is not maintained by kinetic investiture or matter transference after the bond has been formed
  • Seen in Allomantic control of Hemalurgic Constructs, as well as Ruin's influence and control with mad/spiked people
  • Possibly (at least part) of the mechanism on which Nightblood influences bonded people
  • Possibly (at least part) of the bond used by Father Machine to control the Nightmares, since we see that Liyun's bonds force her back to her role each time she gets free as a Nightmare

Hope that helps

Edited September 16, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG