Kelsier and Mishram

[mikeymikesalot]

I was reflecting on the Mishram content we got in this book, and I think I may have a fair idea of the most important reason Kelsier is so interested in her. There's also a juicy implication for what I'm expecting we'll get some of in the Ghostbloods trilogy.

During the False Desolation, Mishram took up a significant portion of Odium's power, and utilized it to grant forms of power to the singers. iirc this is because she drank from his perpendicularity, as we heard that Ishar did as well much later. I don't recall what was going on with Odium at this time, and why he wasn't acting alongside her, maybe he was just focused on the birthing of the everstorm that wouldn't arrive for a couple millenia. Either way, while Odium wasn't taking the fight to the humans, Mishram, frustrated by this, took up some of his power and took the reigns herself.

Kelsier's epilogue in TLM is very interesting as well, as we hear some of Kel's frustrations with Sazed and his lack of action and intervention. He hopes for there to be a resurgence of Mistborn and full feruchemists, and asks Sazed if the seed of Preservation is still present in the people. If it is, he doesn't understand why it can't be drawn out. Sazed's answer leaves Kelsier unsatisfied, and it seems clear that Kelsier intends to continue looking into this, just hopefully not in the same avenues as The Set.

I think Kelsier learned that a powerful spren of Odium managed to take up a portion of its power, in order to enact what it thought was right for it's people. And having learned this, he wants to know how it was done, because he wants to take up some of Harmony's power, so that he can extract the latent metalborn powers from people, just as Mishram granted the singers their latent forms of power.

So if we see Kelsier hunting down Harmony's perpendicularity in era 3, I think that is exactly what he is hoping to achieve, and will certainly provide ample juicy conflict between him and Sazed as the backdrop of era 3, because we certainly got hints of the way Odium was afraid of Mishram in WAT, and I would expect the same from our favorite Terrisman

I haven't taken time to find the appropriate quotes to accompany this theory, but I'm interested to hear what you all have to think about this!

[Nitpicking]

Hm ... Are Ishar and Mishram Slivers of Odium?

[AquaRegia he/him]

I like it.  Brandon has declined in the past (storm him) to do the things that I like, so I'm not prepared to bet money on it, but you make a good sensible argument.

1 hour ago, Nitpicking said:

Hm ... Are Ishar and Mishram Slivers of Odium?

Not sure they qualify, given what we know of Sliverdom.  Kelsier is a Sliver of Preservation, yes?  I think you have to hold all (or a majority) of the Power for a time.. just sipping from a Perpendicularity may not be enough.

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

Hm ... Are Ishar and Mishram Slivers of Odium?

42 minutes ago, AquaRegia said:

I like it.  Brandon has declined in the past (storm him) to do the things that I like, so I'm not prepared to bet money on it, but you make a good sensible argument.

Not sure they qualify, given what we know of Sliverdom.  Kelsier is a Sliver of Preservation, yes?  I think you have to hold all (or a majority) of the Power for a time.. just sipping from a Perpendicularity may not be enough.

Unclear.

Known Slivers are pre-Vessel-Vin, Rashek, Kelsier, Stormfather. The being needs to hold at least enough of the Shard's power to Ascend at least partially (Such as Rashek and Vin in the Well). If neither of them absorbed the entire Well of Odium, then it is unlikely they are Slivers. But the known data is inconclusive because we do not kow how much of Odium's Well either tapped. 

 

[Y F-N she/her]

3 hours ago, mikeymikesalot said:

So if we see Kelsier hunting down Harmony's perpendicularity in era 3, I think that is exactly what he is hoping to achieve, and will certainly provide ample juicy conflict between him and Sazed as the backdrop of era 3, because we certainly got hints of the way Odium was afraid of Mishram in WAT, and I would expect the same from our favorite Terrisman

I think Kelsier already knows the location of Harmony's perpendicularity. The Southerners certainly seem to know, at any rate, and given the relationship between Kelsier and the Southerners, I would assume Kelsier told them where to find it.

[RedBlue]

1 hour ago, Y F-N said:

I think Kelsier already knows the location of Harmony's perpendicularity. The Southerners certainly seem to know, at any rate, and given the relationship between Kelsier and the Southerners, I would assume Kelsier told them where to find it.

I agree — and also, all the Ghostbloods from off-world presumably came through there. It must be common knowledge in certain circles at this point.

[DSCrankshaw]

I would say that the location of the Well is strongly implied to be in the mountains south of the Southern Roughs in Shadows of Self, according to the "Visitors from Other Worlds" article in The House Record. The accompanying illustration has a strong Fused vibe. 

[Treamayne]

9 minutes ago, DSCrankshaw said:

according to the "Visitors from Other Worlds" article in The House Record.

That article was foreshadowing the SoScads. Since nobody in the North was familiar with their cultural practice of wearing masks, the encounter was confused as a "monster." Confirmed in BoM when we learn that Hunters had already been in the Southern Roughs when they lost their first ship searching for the Sovereign's Temple.

[mikeymikesalot]

17 hours ago, Y F-N said:

I think Kelsier already knows the location of Harmony's perpendicularity. The Southerners certainly seem to know, at any rate, and given the relationship between Kelsier and the Southerners, I would assume Kelsier told them where to find it.

 

16 hours ago, RedBlue said:

I agree — and also, all the Ghostbloods from off-world presumably came through there. It must be common knowledge in certain circles at this point.

Ah! I had totally forgotten about that. So now I just think it will take him putting two and two together. I wouldn't put it past Kelsier to go behind Sazed's back to drink from the Well, take up some serious power, and try and draw forth the latent allomancy and feruchemy in the populace (again drawing a parallel to how Mishram was able to grant forms with the power she drank from the well).

[coolsnow7]

On 1/22/2025 at 12:12 PM, mikeymikesalot said:

I was reflecting on the Mishram content we got in this book, and I think I may have a fair idea of the most important reason Kelsier is so interested in her. There's also a juicy implication for what I'm expecting we'll get some of in the Ghostbloods trilogy.

During the False Desolation, Mishram took up a significant portion of Odium's power, and utilized it to grant forms of power to the singers. iirc this is because she drank from his perpendicularity, as we heard that Ishar did as well much later. I don't recall what was going on with Odium at this time, and why he wasn't acting alongside her, maybe he was just focused on the birthing of the everstorm that wouldn't arrive for a couple millenia. Either way, while Odium wasn't taking the fight to the humans, Mishram, frustrated by this, took up some of his power and took the reigns herself.

Kelsier's epilogue in TLM is very interesting as well, as we hear some of Kel's frustrations with Sazed and his lack of action and intervention. He hopes for there to be a resurgence of Mistborn and full feruchemists, and asks Sazed if the seed of Preservation is still present in the people. If it is, he doesn't understand why it can't be drawn out. Sazed's answer leaves Kelsier unsatisfied, and it seems clear that Kelsier intends to continue looking into this, just hopefully not in the same avenues as The Set.

I think Kelsier learned that a powerful spren of Odium managed to take up a portion of its power, in order to enact what it thought was right for it's people. And having learned this, he wants to know how it was done, because he wants to take up some of Harmony's power, so that he can extract the latent metalborn powers from people, just as Mishram granted the singers their latent forms of power.

So if we see Kelsier hunting down Harmony's perpendicularity in era 3, I think that is exactly what he is hoping to achieve, and will certainly provide ample juicy conflict between him and Sazed as the backdrop of era 3, because we certainly got hints of the way Odium was afraid of Mishram in WAT, and I would expect the same from our favorite Terrisman

I haven't taken time to find the appropriate quotes to accompany this theory, but I'm interested to hear what you all have to think about this!

This is helpful but still does not bear on Kelsier’s overarching goal that has Wit freaking Jasmah out and setting himself in deep opposition to the Ghostbloods. Why would Wit so strongly oppose Kelsier taking Preservation back sort of?

There are answers here - non obvious ones. So far what we know for sure is that it’s short of controlling a shard directly (which is what Iyatil and Mraize somehow want to do) but that’s about it. This business with BAM still sounds like means to Kelsier’s end rather than the end itself.