Unmade and Ancient Spren

[feruchemicalrockband]

With the revelations the Sibling dropped this last chapter about the natures of the three bondsmith spren, as well as the info about the ancient spren, Wind, Stone, and Night, I wanted to share some of my thoughts about what exactly "Unmaking" a spren means.

 

Here's my TL;DR: Unmaking is not exclusive to Odium, the Stormfather, the Sibling, and the Nightwatcher can all be considered "Unmade". The Unmade we already knew of were all originally parts of Wind, Stone, and Night.

 

In the latest chapter, the Sibling brings a new perspective to what we knew about the Stormfather. Earlier books confirmed that he existed already simply as a Storm, but was later changed, presumably by taking in Tanavast's CS. We now know this isn't the case, the Storm was turned into the Stormfather *before* the Sibling was formed from Stone. Sometime after it fell asleep, the Stormfather was changed further.

Quote

“Some six thousand years ago, when the Stones wanted a legacy in the form of a child of Honor and Cultivation. Back when Bondsmiths bonded not to spren, but to the ancient forces, left by gods.”

“And the Stormfather?”

“Soon before me.”

Quote

“It has been confusing,” the Sibling said, “to learn of all that has happened while I slept. I knew the Stormfather when he was young. [...] Now, the Stormfather has changed."

(I'm taking a few liberties with Storm and Stormfather, but since we know Wind still exists, the Stormfather must've been created from a portion of it which I'll be referring to as Storm.)

We receive less information about the Nightwatcher, but we can glean that it was created after the Recreance. The specific wording used when referring to it's creation is "some of the same essence", meaning it might be pointless to look for hints about Night based on the Nightwatcher.

The Sibling itself admits to being created through a similar process, a Stone spren of Cultivation and Honor. So how does this happen?

It seems that Adonalsium left powerful spren on Roshar (and maybe elsewhere?) that were unattuned to any one particular Shardic Intent. At some point, Honor Unmade the Storm, creating the Stormfather, attuning one of Adonalsium's spren to himself, causing it to become "like a child". Being Unmade seems to be a sort of rebirth, killing the old spren and creating something new in its place, as the Sibling considered being Unmade as the same as being killed in RoW. After the Stormfather, the Sibling was Unmade from Stone by Honor and Cultivation. The Night eventually "left" (whatever that means) but it seems there was enough essence for Cultivation to Unmake into the Nightwatcher. So what of the actual Unmade?

Yelignar seems pretty easy to place. It's also known as Blightwind, so it's likely Unmade from Wind

Chemoarish is also known as the Dustmother, and gets confused with the Nightwatcher. Probably Night then.

Moelach is likely Night as well. Future-sight may be a facet of Night, as indicated by the singer's future-seeing Nightform.

Re-Shephir is also known as the Midnight Mother, giving another easy guess.

The other 6 are hard to place, but I'd be willing to bet 2 are of Wind, and 3 are of Stone, assuming we don't find out about any other ancient spren. Sja-Anat makes me especially curious. Does the new information about ancient spren give us some insight about her goals?

 

The whole idea makes me wonder about regular spren vs radiant spren. Are they maybe a similar concept? Windspren get "Unmade" into Honorspren? The Stormfather implies that he was not a conscious being before becoming what he is now. Is Storm to Stormfather the same difference as windspren to an Honorspren?

 

There's also the greater question of why Honor would even Unmake a part of the Wind into a Sliver of Honor when it sounds like previous Bondsmiths could just bond to the Wind itself. It's not as if he would have wanted to make Bondsmiths more powerful than they were before, as he was actively stifling their surgebinding. We might be able to find answers by analyzing the strange things we've been getting about the Stormfather in this book, which ties into another (half-baked) theory I'm working on. But I'll leave that for another day.

Edited October 20, 2024 by feruchemicalrockband
Posted before finishing

[alder24]

8 hours ago, feruchemicalrockband said:

We receive less information about the Nightwatcher, but we can glean that it was created after the Recreance. The specific wording used when referring to it's creation is "some of the same essence", meaning it might be pointless to look for hints about Night based on the Nightwatcher.

Most definitely that's not the case. There were the Nightwatcher Bondsmiths before the Recreance and the Sibling knew the Nightwacher as she visited the Tower before that event. The Nightwatcher had to be created long before the Recreance as after it the Sibling went into a slumber and no Radiants existed. She was most likely created around the same time as the Stormfather. 

8 hours ago, feruchemicalrockband said:

It seems that Adonalsium left powerful spren on Roshar (and maybe elsewhere?) that were unattuned to any one particular Shardic Intent.

They had to be attuned to Shards. All investiture after the Shattering was assigned to Shards, as they originally were tuned towards specific aspects of Adonalsium. In previous books Syl said that "the winds are of Honor." All of this most likely means that the Wind was already made primarily out of Honor's investiture, before even Honor settled on Roshar. OB ch 6:

Quote

“You’re honorspren.”
“The winds are of Honor,” she said, laughing as if he’d said something ridiculous. “We are kindred blood.”

 

Spoiler

Chaos

So, at the Forbidden Planet signing you said that when Adonalsium was Shattered, all Investiture in the cosmere was associated to one of the Shards... So, what happened with Adonalsium's spren on Roshar? Were those associated to Honor and Cultivation? What happened with them?

Brandon Sanderson

So they were very-- They were already associated to certain parts of Adonalsium and they went with those associations. There's a lot of Cultivation in all of the spren, particularly the natural spren.

Footnote: Chaos is referencing this exchange.
Salt Lake City signing (Dec. 16, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Overlord Jebus

Is all Investiture in the cosmere associated with a Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, well, okay. So this is a complicated one. *pauses* So, Investiture predates the Shattering of Adonalsium, all Investiture was from Adonalsium, all Investiture got assigned to one of the 16 Shards when Adonalsium was Shattered. Some of the Investiture was not on Yolen but location is irrelevant. So Investiture is related to Shards even on planets where none of the Shards are inhabiting. 

Overlord Jebus

Are they aware of that Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

That's part of the whole seeing into the infinite, being beyond even the power of a Shard. So, technically you could make the argument that Harmony could feel the sense of Preservation on every world in the cosmere, right? Because the building blocks of all life and creation are these things.

Overlord Jebus

So the Shard of Preservation embodies all preservation in the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes but he just can't do that, right? Like, he's not infinite. The Vessels are not, even if their minds are enormously expanded by holding a Shard, they are not infinite. The Connection is all there in the Spiritual Realm.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

 

8 hours ago, feruchemicalrockband said:

Chemoarish is also known as the Dustmother, and gets confused with the Nightwatcher. Probably Night then.

Dust can be made from stone, so she would fit to the Stone more. 

8 hours ago, feruchemicalrockband said:

The whole idea makes me wonder about regular spren vs radiant spren. Are they maybe a similar concept? Windspren get "Unmade" into Honorspren? The Stormfather implies that he was not a conscious being before becoming what he is now. Is Storm to Stormfather the same difference as windspren to an Honorspren?

I would say yes, at least when he was created I think it should be similar. But what he is now is different from what he was after he was created. He was still conscious and sapient before he merged with Honor's Cognitive Shadow, he still was the Stormfather, more like a child as the merger changed him a lot. 

8 hours ago, feruchemicalrockband said:

There's also the greater question of why Honor would even Unmake a part of the Wind into a Sliver of Honor when it sounds like previous Bondsmiths could just bond to the Wind itself. It's not as if he would have wanted to make Bondsmiths more powerful than they were before, as he was actively stifling their surgebinding. We might be able to find answers by analyzing the strange things we've been getting about the Stormfather in this book, which ties into another (half-baked) theory I'm working on. But I'll leave that for another day.

In my opinion the previous Bondsmiths were bonded to the fundamental forces themselves, not to those ancient spren (the text said they weren't bound to spren but to forces left by gods). This made them more dangerous as they were unbound from the morality of a spren. who could limit the use of those forces. But ultimately it was Ishar's idea (not Honor's) to create Knights Radiant and he bound Surgebinders with Oath to spren, so maybe around the same time Honor and Cultivation created new large Splinters made from Old Magic spren to make a new Bondsmith order, restricted by both Oaths and spren's perception of what's right or wrong.