Theories about Shallan

[CtrlAltDepressed]

Hello all. 

 

I had some thoughts on Shallan and wanted to put them out there in case they end up being true (highly unlikely). 

 

So I have seen the theories floating around about Radiant. That she is Chana's Honorblade and that she is Chana herself. While I fully subscribe to the Chana Davar theory (it seems basically confirmed at this point), I don't buy into any of the theories that involve Chana and Radiant. 

 

I propose an alternative. We know that Radiant is different from Veil. It seems she is not just mental illness as Veil was. There is something magical going on with Radiant. 

 

I propose that Shallan created Radiant, actually created her, from Shallan's own spiritual ideal. We know she has a weird Connection to the SR and, using Fortune, is able to draw ideals of people - who they could be or could have been. 

 

It seems obvious that Radiant would represent one of Shallan's spiritual ideals, however, im proposing that she is actually real. Shallan has been a lightweaver for a long time now, it seems plausible to me that she could have accidentally given true form to this representation. 

 

As I typed that out it seemed more ridiculous, but i'm sticking with it. For lack of better terms, I think Shallan accidentally performed an awakening on her own illusory spiritual ideal. 

 

What do you all think? Am I totally crazy?

 

[GudThymes he/him]

8 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

There is something magical going on with Radiant

Can you expand on this for my benefit? I sped through RoW and haven't done my reread yet but I don't remember thinking that Radiant was any different (mechanically) than Veil or formless.

 

I like the theory, my main question is wasn't Radiant formed pretty late for Shallan and before she had advanced far in her oaths? 

[CtrlAltDepressed]

16 hours ago, GudThymes said:

I like the theory, my main question is wasn't Radiant formed pretty late for Shallan and before she had advanced far in her oaths? 

Yes, that is what we are told. 

 

We have seen on numerous occasions that Shallan does not tell the truth. I propose that Radiant has been around longer than we have been told. 

 

There is some evidence for Radiant being different that I can remember. Firstly, Radiant is seen with shardplate. This could just be part of the illusion but could signify that Radiant is at a higher oath than Shallan. My main guess right now for this theory to work is that Radiant is the Shallan that didnt kill her first spren. She is the version of Shallan that is still faithful to the oaths she swore to Testament. This would explain why she still has access to her shardplate, and is consistent with Patterns explanation that the break between them was not clean, and not fully severed. 

 

This is mostly conjecture, I know, but it seems to make at least a little sense. 

[Kesamijr]

It’s Shallan so anything is possible lolol I could even see Radiant being the real her and Shallan being an alter or something like that. I think it’s all muddied by the fact Brandon admitted he didn’t commit fully enough to the DID as early as he should’ve, but it’s all certainly interesting

[coolsnow7]

On 8/8/2024 at 9:11 AM, CtrlAltDepressed said:

There is something magical going on with Radiant.

There’s simply nothing there to support this. And the personality emerged basically the same way and time Veil did. 

[coolsnow7]

On 8/9/2024 at 10:42 AM, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Yes, that is what we are told. 

 

We have seen on numerous occasions that Shallan does not tell the truth. I propose that Radiant has been around longer than we have been told. 

 

There is some evidence for Radiant being different that I can remember. Firstly, Radiant is seen with shardplate. This could just be part of the illusion but could signify that Radiant is at a higher oath than Shallan. My main guess right now for this theory to work is that Radiant is the Shallan that didnt kill her first spren. She is the version of Shallan that is still faithful to the oaths she swore to Testament. This would explain why she still has access to her shardplate, and is consistent with Patterns explanation that the break between them was not clean, and not fully severed. 

 

This is mostly conjecture, I know, but it seems to make at least a little sense. 

Idk man this is extremely unconvincing. This would work if we got this explanation in RoW when we found out that Shallan had bonded Testament in the first place. Like this, you’re basically saying you expect the big reveal of what Radiant is and her purpose to provide zero development of Shallan’s character. And Radiant

The irony is, if you pay attention to Radiant’s personality, she doesn’t fit the ideals of a Lightweaver - she’s not particularly creative, she’s not good at drawing like other Lightweavers (whenever Shallan has to do that stuff, she has to take over) and she’s not honest - she lied to Shallan about killing Ialai after all. What she does fit - complete with sword skills that Shallan can’t possibly have acquired - is… the Brave/Obedient ideal of the Dustbringers. So your direction actually strengthens the Shallan = Chana theory which you don’t buy.

[CtrlAltDepressed]

15 hours ago, coolsnow7 said:

There’s simply nothing there to support this. And the personality emerged basically the same way and time Veil did. 

Entirely fair. 

 

We know for sure, at the very least, that Radiant is different from Veil in that Radiant will be harder to incorporate back into Shallan. 

 

I thought there was more evidence for Radiant being different magically, but I haven't been able to find it. 

 

It was mostly assumptions on my part but I could see Radiant being partially a magical issue. We know that her brothers (particularly Nan Balat) mental illness partially stems from proximity to an unmade, so Shallan should have some of that going on too. 

 

I really don't think Radiant is purely multiple personality disorder, but I admit that is the most likely outcome. 

 

edit: relevant wobs

Spoiler

Questioner

There's a scene where you can see from the perspective of Nan Balat, Shallan's brother, where he's maiming an insect. It's described as soothing his aches. Is that in any way related to how Kaladin feels depressed and down during the Weeping even in his early childhood?

Brandon Sanderson

What's happening to Nan Balat is magically enhanced. What's happening to Kaladin is mostly just chemical depression. Be he is really too young to be diagnosed with depression during some of these events, but he's got the seeds in there. So Kaladin is not magically depressed. Kaladin is just legitimatly a person with depression. Nan Balat... What's up with him is... ah... being exaggerated by certain forces moving in on Roshar. (last bit is a bit indistinctive)

 

Spoiler

Stormlightning

You told someone that Nan Balat likes to hurt things. Like, a supernatural tendency to hurt things.

Brandon Sanderson

It's more along the lines of, "He has suffered some...enhancement of a psychological issue through supernatural effects."

Stormlightning

It's not an Unmade thing?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO! Good question! That's basically a confirmation, isn't it? *teasing laugh*

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2024 by CtrlAltDepressed

[listerfeend]

Ok, so, given the previously released chapters from WoT, with Kalak telling Shallan that she is connecting to the SR and Fortune in some way to draw people as they could be or could have been, I posit the theory that ALL of her personalities, including Formless and any others that may be lurking around, are, in fact, her own connections to herself as she could have been. This wouldn't make Radiant intrinsically different than, say, Veil, as they would both be alternate versions of Shallan. However, there could be some shenanigans going on with Radiant, as that would likely be the version of Shallan that didn't break oaths with Testament, made the 4th oath, got the armor, and all that. 

[Ailvara]

On 8/15/2024 at 9:48 PM, CtrlAltDepressed said:

What's happening to Nan Balat is magically enhanced. What's happening to Kaladin is mostly just chemical depression. Be he is really too young to be diagnosed with depression during some of these events, but he's got the seeds in there. So Kaladin is not magically depressed. Kaladin is just legitimatly a person with depression. Nan Balat... What's up with him is... ah... being exaggerated by certain forces moving in on Roshar. (last bit is a bit indistinctive)

That makes me wonder if whatever is happening to Heralds' mental health is magically enhanced too, and if that in turn can be hereditary.

We have at least one hint in the preview chapters that Radiant may be different (I think I've seen another but can't remember now):

Quote

“But…” Pattern said. “Radiant is still… separate?”

“More separate,” Shallan said.

Edited August 20, 2024 by Ailvara

[Blackwarder]

On 8/15/2024 at 8:58 AM, coolsnow7 said:

Idk man this is extremely unconvincing. This would work if we got this explanation in RoW when we found out that Shallan had bonded Testament in the first place. Like this, you’re basically saying you expect the big reveal of what Radiant is and her purpose to provide zero development of Shallan’s character. And Radiant

The irony is, if you pay attention to Radiant’s personality, she doesn’t fit the ideals of a Lightweaver - she’s not particularly creative, she’s not good at drawing like other Lightweavers (whenever Shallan has to do that stuff, she has to take over) and she’s not honest - she lied to Shallan about killing Ialai after all. What she does fit - complete with sword skills that Shallan can’t possibly have acquired - is… the Brave/Obedient ideal of the Dustbringers. So your direction actually strengthens the Shallan = Chana theory which you don’t buy.

IMHO, it also strengthens the Chana being Shalans mother theory. Radiant could be a projection of her mother. The gate keeper between Shallan and the knowledge that she brought the desolation by killing her mother.

[listerfeend]

Another thing to note on this topic is that, in real world D.I.D. cases, each "personality" is more or less difficult to "merge" anyway, at least from what I can gather from relevant media. I'm not a doctor or anything like that, but I don't think that Radiant sticking around, or being more or less difficult to incorporate into the main personality gives much weight to Radiant being something more than Veil was. 

[Ookla she/her]

1 hour ago, listerfeend said:

Another thing to note on this topic is that, in real world D.I.D. cases, each "personality" is more or less difficult to "merge" anyway, at least from what I can gather from relevant media. I'm not a doctor or anything like that, but I don't think that Radiant sticking around, or being more or less difficult to incorporate into the main personality gives much weight to Radiant being something more than Veil was. 

I think you're right. I also think that if Brandon wanted to put more emphasis on Radiant this way for writing reasons (AKA readers who don't know much about DID and would instinctively assign plot-relevance where it doesn't belong [like me, hi]), there are ways to handle it that might be a little plot-convenient, but otherwise not a huge issue.

At the same time, if the "Chana-is-Shallan's-Mom" theory is accurate, Radiant might not be any more than Veil was--both are disguising truths so Shallan can function, and even if one truth is vastly more world-impacting than the other, why would the shield-personalities function all that differently from one another? They serve the same essential purpose of disguising the past for Shallan's benefit. If that can be made clear in the text, then Radiant being harder to merge then becomes a part of Shallan's DID, allowing Brandon to stay true to how things actually work like you've said.

Finally, I also feel like I've heard (read?) someone mention Brandon saying that Radiant might not merge, and that Shallan may "hang on" (for lack of a better term) to that identity semi-permanently to permanently. (If there's a WoB for this, I'm not sure how best to go about finding it because I don't often theorize.) Whether this means Shallan won't complete her oaths or that Radiant is, indeed, something different than Veil, I have no idea.

[Elder]

On 8/19/2024 at 11:03 PM, Ailvara said:

That makes me wonder if whatever is happening to Heralds' mental health is magically enhanced too, and if that in turn can be hereditary.

We have at least one hint in the preview chapters that Radiant may be different (I think I've seen another but can't remember now):

I have a theory about a magical factor of their madness.  It has to do with their honor blades.  
1.  The Honor Blades each represent enough Investiture to make the Heralds something to the effect of a cognitive shadow, even an Avatar of Honor in his various aspects.

2.  That Investiture has Intent, but since it was given to them as swords (weapons/tools) that Intent is not going to override their own.  It was given in such a way so as to match the best aspects of themselves. It still is bonded to them.  Indeed, you could say it has become part of them, merging with the best parts of them.

3.  Whenever they “bent their oaths” and allowed the Fused through, they became less of themselves.  Their bond with their Blades - with the best aspects of themselves as well as with Honor, was weakened, Cognitive/Spiritual Dissonance introduced and reinforced in their minds.

4.  When they gave up the Honor Blades, they left the best parts of themselves in those swords, making them considerably worse.  Similar Spiritual damage to a Nalthian giving up all breath, except on a divine scale.

5.  When Nale and Ishar reclaimed their Honor Blades, they were so far removed from the best parts of themselves that the Cognitive/Dissonance aggravated, resulting in murder sprees, holy wars, etc. 

Anyway, back on topic, I’m reasonably sure Radiant is still a creation of Shallan, a lie, a coping mechanism to help her cover up how she hated her Shard Blade.  The previous lie is exposed.  She doesn’t hate Pattern. She does have issues with Testament, and believes Testament should hate her.  Radiant will be resolved when Shallan reconciles with Testament.  Hopefully that will involve Testamemt healing.

 

Edited August 21, 2024 by Elder