Mid-Range Game 67: 'Twas the Night Before SA5

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

37 minutes ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

? No it does not ?

EDIT: what even is your con goal like you are trying to hide behind it and I don't think it's going to help you

It was to post the phrase 'Cohesion and tension' or vice versa three times. What doesn't make sense here? Is your convention goal just completely and utterly different than posting something?

[Kasimir he/him]

3 hours ago, Winnie the Pookla said:

I saw something about Kas and just want to mention that exeing Kas D1 is never a good idea. If he's village we want the elims to worry about Brandon protecting him, and if he's elim it will become patently clear (perhaps not to me, but definitely to others) well before the game ends. And if it doesn't, then that means Kas has become more comfortable with elimming, which I'll gladly trade for a loss.

"ABANG

...Wow you really are holding a grudge from that time I shot you in the face aren't you. C'mon you murdered me with the utmost vengeance! Aren't we square now???"

(Getting to everything else in a bit, I need the painkillers to kick in first, apologies.)

[Aeoryi she/her]

8 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

It was to post the phrase 'Cohesion and tension' or vice versa three times. What doesn't make sense here? Is your convention goal just completely and utterly different than posting something?

To a degree, yes

[Ravenclawjedi42]

10 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Why?

Just because it’s a role that can and will kill us, and as the game goes on it gets worse and worse to die.

3 hours ago, Winnie the Pookla said:

I'm still content to leave my vote on Archer; his stirring up noise doesn't say anything about his alignment, and doing a "reaction test" like that is an easy way to get village points.

 

I agree with this statement about Archer. We don’t know his alignment currently, and I’m happy to keep voting for him.

2 hours ago, neil the beguiled said:

for past participle/ravenclaw: can you detail more how their indecisiveness makes your read more neutral here, especially while calling out kas/devo for their caution? i dislike their response the most tbqh

Wait, sorry, are you asking about Archer?

[Aeoryi she/her]

4 minutes ago, Ookla thePresentParticiple said:

Just because it’s a role that can and will kill us, and as the game goes on it gets worse and worse to die.

I agree with this statement about Archer. We don’t know his alignment currently, and I’m happy to keep voting for him.

Wait, sorry, are you asking about Archer?

Have you considered the SK killing an Elim?

When will you ever learn his alignment? It's not that he needs to be flipped, it's that he doesn't need to be flipped as badly as someone likes say Devo.

[Ravenclawjedi42]

11 minutes ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Have you considered the SK killing an Elim?

When will you ever learn his alignment? It's not that he needs to be flipped, it's that he doesn't need to be flipped as badly as someone likes say Devo.

I know there is a possibility of them killing elims, but statistically speaking they are more likely to kill a villager instead.

And…you’re kind of right. I guess instead of Archer (Ookla the Paradigm) I’ll vote Devotary of Spontaneity, because I’m a bit more curious about her.

[Kasimir he/him]

So, a few thoughts:

-I'll do my own lookover of the responses closer to my afternoon, or at least after the painkillers are a bit more effective. Just kind of still need a break right now. Neil - thanks, yes, I do want to factor it in, though I'd note I'd still take your primary response to be pre-reveal.

-Part of my reason for waiting is that I do want @Amanuensis to chime in if at all possible because I value his thoughts especially on these sorts of things as it's directly in his wheelhouse.

3 hours ago, neil the beguiled said:

i mean. im gonna state that i fully dont know anypony here's meta but in general im decent at reading into those sorts of claims? dgmw ive met my fair share of people who fly with audacity there but meh- i ahve a bit more  though, but lemme get to that later in this message ^^ (

-Oh, absolutely fair, I just didn't want to come across as inadvertently talking you out of the read because I think it makes sense to me, I just worry all the same. Admittedly I should probably have been more careful with framing it because I realised it was coming through as some form of "STAHP NO" and I wanted to convey a more "I think this is too fast, but I don't feel that strongly about it to push, you do you, I'd just warn there's a really big error-bar, and leave it to you."

3 hours ago, neil the beguiled said:

ah yeah that makes a lot of sense. i'd generally feel more swayed to see reaction testing as v indicative rather than anything else, but the elims needing to weed out the sk makes that harder to gauge as well (er, i suppose sk could also want reactions but. what a sk wants reactions for is a lot more nuanced than an e or a t.

-Fair. I think that's why I find the read intuitive, yes. I will say that E!Archer does this too, but I think there's a clear valence difference between how E!Archer and V!Archer carries this out. I'm going to withhold a read on Archer for just a little more as there's one or two interactions I want to watch play out before tipping my hand which I think will help me further get a tighter lock on this valence difference.

3 hours ago, neil the beguiled said:

i dont like the hedge in this fwiw. i can get not trusting a persons reasoning for a claimed reaction test, but you can also reap the rewards of said reaction test. consider a t/sk!archer as opposed to a e!archer world. if you assume archer is uninformed, then you should be looking for the informed in response to his reaction test, or whos trying to push sus onto him. if you think archer is informed, who is defending him? i think theres a lot you can get out of things like this even if you dont know what alignment archer is by the responses to him. 

-cf. Ravenclaw, which also feeds into the @ of Archer - don't disagree. The meta issue IMO is more Ravenclaw choosing to vote Archer and arguing Archer's motives are probaby Evil - I agree it's backing up Araris but they're not hiding behind Araris's reasoning, which I felt was crucially what their E!self did in the game I'm using as a comparator (LG98a.)  Given this line of reasoning was raised in LG98b to later argue for them being Village, I definitely won't rule out metascrewing happening here. 

11 hours ago, Ookla thePresentParticiple said:

Yes. I can see how that would be very confusing considering how I believe both. If you are a Serial Killer, yes you are less important to kill than the elims, but we should still exe you sooner rather than later. And if you aren't--which is quite likely--than your motive is...interesting. It definitely changes things to learn that you had claimed SK many times before in games like this one, but I'm still not certain. Devo brings up an interesting point in saying that the convention game could be involved, I'm not sure how I feel about it, though. And it could have been trying to find our reactions, but I never seem to really trust those.

So basically I don't have many opinions thus far.

I agree it's hedgy, but that's the point I think - I'd've expected E!them to have backed down, or to have just said these made some good points and sheeped (this is using the LG98a baseline, so I agree it's a meta argument.) That's more what I mean by placatory - consensus position at the moment isn't exeing the SK sooner rather than later. After you and I both were disabused of the SK wincon confusion by Aeo and acknowledged the Elims were the bigger problem here, and JNV explicitly said the SK isn't our problem, they're cleaving against consensus here by sticking to their guns. They also hit against it early on by pushing on Archer for it, when everyone was just ignoring Archer.

But FWIW, I don't disagree with pressure on Ravenclaw rather than Archer and I giving them an early pass because clarity is always good and pressure brings clarity. And I'll probably also re-read LG98a and b just to refresh myself on the nuances of Ravenclaw's play if I want to push this further.

3 hours ago, neil the beguiled said:

for devo: this i understand most actually- i think as v! youd be more compelled to find an AI reasoning than convention reasoning.

-I'm...confused about how you understand this the most (therefore agreeing with Archer), but the bolded bits don't, and you also have Devo as a prospective vote and I'm not sure if I just need more painkillers or I'm missing something.

-While we are on the list of Drek I Do Not Understand, I don't understand how these two things go together:

11 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Archer

Claim neutral = probably a IKYK a

10 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

4. They must be a villager. But in what world does v! archer claim? It's just bad for the village overall

5. They must be the Sanderson, trying to hide behind the protection of the neutral being non-parity.

That's why I didn't want to explain this in thread. I didn't want to put a potential v! Sanderson!you in thread.

-Actually while we're at it, let's add to the Wall of Shame:

10 hours ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

I didn’t get a SK counter-claim, but I think this has run its course.

Why for the love of Honor would you expect a freakin SK counterclaim what the actual hell.

-Tbh:

10 hours ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

My working theory was they’re the real SK (chaos = neutral). Refusal to engage with and believe my claim followed by obsession with the topic points that way. That theory can hold the vote on me as being neutral pettiness (if you’re going to vote someone, vote the guy claiming your job). Otherwise it’s a weird (opportunistic) turn that I'm inclined to suspect. 

I don't disagree but am not as sold on SK!Aeo per se. Part of it has to do with the posts I'm questioning uh...one or two comment bars above this, whichever, I'm not really being chronological now I'm just going through the thread and whacking anything that catches my attention ngl. I'm not sure I feel Aeo is the SK but she's definitely in my pool. 

I'm trying to suppress it insofar as I think I've contributed to her ML in three games now, and I don't know if her chaos is adding to my persistent E!lean. As I said, it's a button I'm trying very hard to keep unpushed this game because it has been distorting my judgement.

I do have other reasons for the read, FWIW, but they're largely vibe-based.

3 hours ago, neil the beguiled said:

its odd to be tl so easily here. 

-FWIW I think active players often get v-read here to some degree. I am willing to understand that, or at least put you somewhere in null+s first, but don't feel confident ascribing anything too strong with unknown error bars. IDK. Some games I'm more reckless about the error bars, this game I feel a bit more conservative, which might be the result of the last three games or so.

I will say the ease of the read is a bit ??? to me too though, in context.

I don't know. Coming back to this comment bar, on reflection, yes, there are probably games in which I would have ascribed you a very hesitant light Village and moved on with the knowledge I would probably revise it going forward. I guess I really just am in a more risk-conservative mood rn.

2 hours ago, JNV said:

I dont know why you feel the need to preface your list of player metas with how youre not trying to bring up player metas like youve been talking about metas for the last few pages you dont need to hide from it

-TFW I am now forced to either: a. sus JNV, b. question who this is and what they've done to Holy Ruin, Destroyer of Worlds and Elims  c. ask @STINK to stop hacking JNV's account and just sign up like u should have all along smh  

3 hours ago, neil the beguiled said:

is there anybody you think i should take a look at to sort specifically that i havent?

-I'm curious if you've any specific thoughts on Raven ( @Ookla of Ravens - apologies for the ping, but I think tagging can help Neil sort identities out a bit easier.)

46 minutes ago, Ookla thePresentParticiple said:

Just because it’s a role that can and will kill us, and as the game goes on it gets worse and worse to die.

-Does the fact we can win without interacting with it factor into your judgement call at all here? Moreover, in that world, aren't you losing one cycle of pressure on Elims, effectively costing the Village tempo? What's your assessment of that?

-Right, Neil asked about FNG at one point - yeah basically. It's basically the one where you pitch your range differently so players underestimate you, and you can get away with it a bit because you're new (to the forum) which is the mistake Aeo's making here when- actually yeah let me get at that as well before I forget.

9 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

I don't count Neil as a new player (I still say don't c1 nk them) but I like the contributions they've been giving so I'm tentatively reading them as v

Do you particularly expect the Elims or SK to listen to you? Like what's the point of this. Sart's not playing.

But yes:

3 hours ago, neil the beguiled said:

ive not acc played on a bunch of forums ^^ just 2, im new to forum mafia actually xD! but ive played chat mafia for longer and thats where im more experienced. tho what does FNG mean? i assume it stands for forum new guy? 

Correction taken! Have been playing a bit on Discord as well and it's a pretty different environment from forum, for sure. Would be curious sometime to ask about how you find it v. forum, but don't want to throw the thread into a massive digression rn.

FNG maybe not the best word here then since I was referring to it on the straight level, but Archer basically expecting you to believe it IMO requires you to be drastically inexperienced and I don't think that's the correct read here and am questioning why he even though it was the remotely correct projection. I think anyone who's played enough mafia meets enough liars to lose faith in all of humanity  Well, no, I suppose, enough to doubt or at least have more 'tainted' reactions to reaction tests, even if they're pure alignment-wise.

That should be it I think. I probably got ninjaed way too many times when writing this up >> Please tell me one of those times was Aman...

Edited to add:

3 hours ago, neil the beguiled said:

i dont rlly get anything else thoug, i assume its some meta of other games?

Ah my bad - not meta, just substantiation of a situation in which I think outlier analysis helped to find an Elim in response to a reaction test rather than working on preconceived baseline responses. I do think it's worth having a projected baseline just to compare and set your own expectations. I just also think that also doing outlier analysis works a bit better rather than just picking up baseline deviations because your baseline can be pretty far off.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Kasimir

[Ravenclawjedi42]

6 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

-Does the fact we can win without interacting with it factor into your judgement call at all here? Moreover, in that world, aren't you losing one cycle of pressure on Elims, effectively costing the Village tempo? What's your assessment of that?

To your first point: not initially. I just think that non-village roles that can murder are generally bad to have.

To your second point: I’m sure this has been mentioned in this thread before, but I missed it in my quick skims and didn’t think of it. Yeah, that’s something important to think about. I’ll sleep on it (when I finally get off the Shard).

[Aeoryi she/her]

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

So, a few thoughts:

-I'll do my own lookover of the responses closer to my afternoon, or at least after the painkillers are a bit more effective. Just kind of still need a break right now. Neil - thanks, yes, I do want to factor it in, though I'd note I'd still take your primary response to be pre-reveal.

-Part of my reason for waiting is that I do want @Amanuensis to chime in if at all possible because I value his thoughts especially on these sorts of things as it's directly in his wheelhouse.

-Oh, absolutely fair, I just didn't want to come across as inadvertently talking you out of the read because I think it makes sense to me, I just worry all the same. Admittedly I should probably have been more careful with framing it because I realised it was coming through as some form of "STAHP NO" and I wanted to convey a more "I think this is too fast, but I don't feel that strongly about it to push, you do you, I'd just warn there's a really big error-bar, and leave it to you."

-Fair. I think that's why I find the read intuitive, yes. I will say that E!Archer does this too, but I think there's a clear valence difference between how E!Archer and V!Archer carries this out. I'm going to withhold a read on Archer for just a little more as there's one or two interactions I want to watch play out before tipping my hand which I think will help me further get a tighter lock on this valence difference.

-cf. Ravenclaw, which also feeds into the @ of Archer - don't disagree. The meta issue IMO is more Ravenclaw choosing to vote Archer and arguing Archer's motives are probaby Evil - I agree it's backing up Araris but they're not hiding behind Araris's reasoning, which I felt was crucially what their E!self did in the game I'm using as a comparator (LG98a.)  Given this line of reasoning was raised in LG98b to later argue for them being Village, I definitely won't rule out metascrewing happening here. 

I agree it's hedgy, but that's the point I think - I'd've expected E!them to have backed down, or to have just said these made some good points and sheeped (this is using the LG98a baseline, so I agree it's a meta argument.) That's more what I mean by placatory - consensus position at the moment isn't exeing the SK sooner rather than later. After you and I both were disabused of the SK wincon confusion by Aeo and acknowledged the Elims were the bigger problem here, and JNV explicitly said the SK isn't our problem, they're cleaving against consensus here by sticking to their guns. They also hit against it early on by pushing on Archer for it, when everyone was just ignoring Archer.

But FWIW, I don't disagree with pressure on Ravenclaw rather than Archer and I giving them an early pass because clarity is always good and pressure brings clarity. And I'll probably also re-read LG98a and b just to refresh myself on the nuances of Ravenclaw's play if I want to push this further.

-I'm...confused about how you understand this the most (therefore agreeing with Archer), but the bolded bits don't, and you also have Devo as a prospective vote and I'm not sure if I just need more painkillers or I'm missing something.

-While we are on the list of Drek I Do Not Understand, I don't understand how these two things go together:

-Actually while we're at it, let's add to the Wall of Shame:

Why for the love of Honor would you expect a freakin SK counterclaim what the actual hell.

-Tbh:

I don't disagree but am not as sold on SK!Aeo per se. Part of it has to do with the posts I'm questioning uh...one or two comment bars above this, whichever, I'm not really being chronological now I'm just going through the thread and whacking anything that catches my attention ngl. I'm not sure I feel Aeo is the SK but she's definitely in my pool. 

I'm trying to suppress it insofar as I think I've contributed to her ML in three games now, and I don't know if her chaos is adding to my persistent E!lean. As I said, it's a button I'm trying very hard to keep unpushed this game because it has been distorting my judgement.

I do have other reasons for the read, FWIW, but they're largely vibe-based.

-FWIW I think active players often get v-read here to some degree. I am willing to understand that, or at least put you somewhere in null+s first, but don't feel confident ascribing anything too strong with unknown error bars. IDK. Some games I'm more reckless about the error bars, this game I feel a bit more conservative, which might be the result of the last three games or so.

I will say the ease of the read is a bit ??? to me too though, in context.

I don't know. Coming back to this comment bar, on reflection, yes, there are probably games in which I would have ascribed you a very hesitant light Village and moved on with the knowledge I would probably revise it going forward. I guess I really just am in a more risk-conservative mood rn.

-TFW I am now forced to either: a. sus JNV, b. question who this is and what they've done to Holy Ruin, Destroyer of Worlds and Elims  c. ask @STINK to stop hacking JNV's account and just sign up like u should have all along smh  

-I'm curious if you've any specific thoughts on Raven ( @Ookla of Ravens - apologies for the ping, but I think tagging can help Neil sort identities out a bit easier.)

-Does the fact we can win without interacting with it factor into your judgement call at all here? Moreover, in that world, aren't you losing one cycle of pressure on Elims, effectively costing the Village tempo? What's your assessment of that?

-Right, Neil asked about FNG at one point - yeah basically. It's basically the one where you pitch your range differently so players underestimate you, and you can get away with it a bit because you're new (to the forum) which is the mistake Aeo's making here when- actually yeah let me get at that as well before I forget.

Do you particularly expect the Elims or SK to listen to you? Like what's the point of this. Sart's not playing.

But yes:

Correction taken! Have been playing a bit on Discord as well and it's a pretty different environment from forum, for sure. Would be curious sometime to ask about how you find it v. forum, but don't want to throw the thread into a massive digression rn.

FNG maybe not the best word here then since I was referring to it on the straight level, but Archer basically expecting you to believe it IMO requires you to be drastically inexperienced and I don't think that's the correct read here and am questioning why he even though it was the remotely correct projection. I think anyone who's played enough mafia meets enough liars to lose faith in all of humanity  Well, no, I suppose, enough to doubt or at least have more 'tainted' reactions to reaction tests, even if they're pure alignment-wise.

That should be it I think. I probably got ninjaed way too many times when writing this up >> Please tell me one of those times was Aman...

Edited to add:

Ah my bad - not meta, just substantiation of a situation in which I think outlier analysis helped to find an Elim in response to a reaction test rather than working on preconceived baseline responses. I do think it's worth having a projected baseline just to compare and set your own expectations. I just also think that also doing outlier analysis works a bit better rather than just picking up baseline deviations because your baseline can be pretty far off.

Oh yeah that was probably because I decided why not. There was probably some reasoning behind it but there was also school at that time so yeah

and yes I did make that tunneling with Aeoryi post long before I voted on Archer. I would rather not explain why.

and yeah you have mislynched me for chaosplay before but tbh understandable but three games in a row is a big no no, so I prefer going back to my pre-elim days when I didn't always tunnel on every player and didn't ever get NK'd or lynched because I was always like 2 PMs away from flipping on my strongest V!read but ykik yeah yeah

Don't worry, I've told all the elims not to NK Neil in the doc so they won't. After all, we all know who the NK kill magnet is

Also, I would explain my whole chaosplay thing to you in a PM but never in thread and you would understand why if you knew so ykik shrugs

EDIT

.I think @Kasimir you should consider what happened last MR, where I had a good C1* and a good C2** but then like, flunked out by C4. Maybe this is good enough to convince you that a talkative player as an elim is way easier to tell later on (did i nearly c1 archer but stopped myself right before rollover for this reason? You never know) so like please let me live

Also if I was SK that would be cool but I probably have similar tells (going inactive to a WiM) but they'd probably occur faster because I've already said this but the SK is kinda screwed like how are you ever going to get your two v one e one you and then get the e to NK the villager and the villager to NK the Elim and all that and then it gets into your brain and you realize just about how bad the SK is to be that's why I would just troll as the SK but I do have a slight history of game throwing pretend that I don't but like aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Okay anyways I want to do reads but at the same time don't do I'm basically feeling the same way I do when I play elim wow no constant stress of being the first lurcher to claim in thread c1 ever wow no stress of self-voting and getting hammer c1 wow no stress of having vehemently defended a Elim okay this is getting out of hand but like reads are annoying to do whether I do them or not is probably up to how I feel at like 8 pm so anyways bye now for now I multiquote 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Ookla the Resolute

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

6 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Also, Kas never gets NK'D C1. He always gets pocketed (and tbh, it isn't too hard to pocket him sorry Kas)

While neither of those points is incorrect, they're not really related. I mean, never say never, and pocketing isn't really an early game/c1 thing. Like, I've certainly tried to kill Kas c1 as an elim. Not sure it's worked due to teammates being less fearful of the Mecha(nalysis) Kaszilla.

6 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Also, if Kas is still alive in any cycle greater than like, 5-6 that's probably an Elim tell. (Kas will probably be C1'D anyways)

TKN: they bring up some infrequent somewhat good points but like the archer thingy

I'd actually strongly argue against that. For one, if Kas is still alive c5, then you'll know if he's E, because there will be a pinch-hitter in his spot. Plus, on elim teams in the past, people are reluctant to kill Kas because he gets close enough to the truth that they're worried people will just follow his logic to the correct target. That's actually why I prefer to kill Kas early.

The Archer thingy?

[Aeoryi she/her]

I'm so sorry I cannot think today what am I doing 

EDIT

I'm like barely awake but like if I don't do my iso now it'll never get done ahhhhg sleep suspension it is then

Edited December 13, 2023 by Ookla the Resolute

[Aeoryi she/her]

EDIT probably:

this is 1-2

Spoiler

On 12/11/2023 at 3:14 PM, neil the beguiled said:

  neil the eel

Banter

On 12/11/2023 at 3:19 PM, Ookla the Paradigm said:

"Hey guys, someone at this convention taught me a verbal order that causes the voice assistant on your phone to break. I started on the Apple one, but it works on androids and other types too!
"What I'm saying is I've become a Siri et al. killer.
"Seriously. Last time I was in this position I got C2ed because I didn't claim so I'm just cutting to the chase here."

Rp

On 12/11/2023 at 3:20 PM, neil the beguiled said:

  planning a bucket strat early hmmyes

I searched up bucket strat idk what this means

On 12/11/2023 at 3:24 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Aeoryi (Ookla the Resolute)

Okay now that I got that outa my system

 

EDIT?

@Ookla the Destined are PMs Open?

Me

On 12/11/2023 at 3:29 PM, neil the beguiled said:

  oh right thats how yall vote here? whats up with the self vote? is it some sort of meme meow?

  edit: im slowly watching my post count go up and its so amusing to me. sorry i love hyperposting :D. this will only end horribly

Question

On 12/11/2023 at 3:37 PM, neil the beguiled said:

OH lol. here let me help you out then smile :3

Aeoryi (Ookla the Resolute)

Vote Aeo

Aeo is winning by 2 votes rn

On 12/11/2023 at 3:34 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

I did it in QF69- it happened recently, and got D1 hammered (votes were locked in)

It's a thing I do I guess

EDIT:

ere be th link if u wanna read

Hre

Me

On 12/11/2023 at 3:38 PM, Amanuensis said:

RIP Elan  Maybe we can persuade Brandon to finish the Gamer Files in her memory.

Aman banter

On 12/11/2023 at 3:39 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Oh yeah forgot to ask u do u have any previous mafia forum experience?

They went for the inactives

Question/me

On 12/11/2023 at 3:41 PM, neil the beguiled said:

o/ aman

 

sadge no reaction :[

yeah, ive played on MU and a bit on flight rising, but i mostly play chat mafia ^^ stick invited me to play a game here and i wanted to check it out so here i am!!!!

 

Answer/niel/nai

On 12/11/2023 at 3:45 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Okay hi!

Yeah I signed up for 1 MU game so far but haven't done much on MU, more stuff here on SE

Me

On 12/11/2023 at 3:48 PM, Amanuensis said:

Hi Neil nice to meet you. Hope Stick didn't smack talk us too much.

Nai aman

On 12/11/2023 at 3:49 PM, neil the beguiled said:

i know :curtain: (im one of the game hosts of that mountainous game LOL). nice to see ya o/. im kinda itching to post and poke around but i feel like at this stage its kinda meh to do so and i think id get like. carried away with myself (soemthing something chat player on a forum something something hyperposting).

@ aman

lol no worries, stick mentioned you repped here for champs at one point but thats abt it. also said its a lot quieter here? im kinda expecting it to be more like the FR forums in comparison to anything else ive played :3 but im excited to be here (even if ive never brandoned a sanderson in my life)

 

Answering non-existent question slight v lean

On 12/11/2023 at 3:54 PM, neil the beguiled said:

yeaaaaaah. for sure (btw im just afraid of the quote button dont mind me.) fr is like... a lot more chill than MU as well (10ppp helps lol) and theres a lot less tryharding there as well, which is why i think that experience better correlates. but also i dont know how many dragons are on this site xD

Idk what "how many dragons" means 

On 12/11/2023 at 3:52 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Apparently (according to Mat, our GM) MU is more aggressive and hardcore than SE in general.

Then again, I had to wait a month for a game to be open to sign up (on MU)

Aeoryi banter

On 12/11/2023 at 4:02 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

What's a dragon?

Wait why is multi quoting like this oh no

On 12/11/2023 at 4:03 PM, Ookla the Paradigm said:

Trying to give yourself a nickname? :P. Hi, I'm Archer, by the way. The Ookla thing is temporary. 

 

"It's true! I murdered a box of corn flakes today. I am a cereal killer!" 

Archer's obvious serial killer claim

On 12/11/2023 at 4:07 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Bolded mine

I mean...

X to doubt

On 12/11/2023 at 4:11 PM, Ookla the Destined said:

PMs are closed.

Gm

On 12/11/2023 at 4:18 PM, Winnie the Pookla said:

Welcome! 

 

Here’s to hoping we can be village bros this game. And if not then that we can have an epic showdown.

Gonna start off with a vote on Archer for the murder of cereal.

Araris votes archer for his SK claim

On 12/11/2023 at 4:19 PM, Ookla the Paradigm said:

I'm sorry was I being too subtle

"I AM THE REASON SEASON 5 OF THE PODCAST DEVELOPED BY THIS AMERICAN LIFE AND THE NEW YORK TIMES WAS CANCELLED. I AM THE SERIAL KILLER."

SK claim x2 (and you wonder why we don't believe you huh?)

On 12/11/2023 at 4:19 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Okay Mr medium man.

Tbh when was the last time a sk won

Aeoryi banter 

On 12/11/2023 at 4:20 PM, Ookla thePresentParticiple said:

“Personally, all of this is madness. SE…in real life? Was she really dead? This can’t end well…I don’t want to die!” Ravenclawjedi42, quite young, says without looking up from The Way of Kings. They plan to reread the entire series before the realease of Knights of Wind and Truth, to be quite certain to remember everything that had happened thus far in the series.

“And what of Archer claiming Serial Killer? I do not trust such a thing, as his announcement seemed like it had been recorded before we were all informed of our roles, like a large font size that I recognize as being pasted from another source, seeming like he was falsely claiming his role?

“Though, I cannot see his motive in doing so, which adds points to… him being evil. Perhaps not such a good thing, then. I’ll put my vote on him for now, as I don’t understand why Archer would falsely claim to be a Serial Killer.”

“True, it is better to keep Serial Killers alive than elims, but I personally am wary of any group that can kill me.

“Everyone can critique my reasoning here, it is perhaps not the best that it could have been and I am in a hurry to finish this chapter so I do not have much time.

“Neil, welcome to the game.” Ravenclawjedi42 goes back to reading their book.

Does not trust Archer's SK claim, votes him for it

On 12/11/2023 at 4:45 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

The Wandering Wizard

(Ookla the ravenness)

 

Idk what was I thinking Aeoryi poke votes wiZ

On 12/11/2023 at 4:49 PM, Ashbringer said:

Pretty sure Devo's run in MR56 was the last time. Unless you count LG95, but Autonomy wasn't really a Serial Killer. (Well... he wasn't supposed to be, at least...)

Ash coming in hot with that clarification 

On 12/11/2023 at 4:50 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

What even counts as an SK?

Philosophy children philosophy 

On 12/11/2023 at 4:54 PM, Ashbringer said:

Murder?

Generally speaking: solo faction, has an NK, and can't win with any other factions (or anyone else, usually). But there's usually some other thing that goes along with it, because only-NK SKs usually have a rough time competing with coordinated efforts to find them.

Ash answer question nai

On 12/11/2023 at 4:56 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

MR 49 had two Elim factions that were closer to a carved Red neutral team than a true Elim team.

Idk I consider that a sk

More philosophy (Aeoryi banter)

On 12/11/2023 at 5:01 PM, Ookla the Raveness said:

What?

(Response to poke vote) banter

On 12/11/2023 at 5:01 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

I saw u in the doc

For the love of ruin what was I on

On 12/11/2023 at 5:02 PM, Ookla the Raveness said:

I was in a non shard doc, but as far as I know you're not in any doc that I'm in

^ I think I know what it is but it isn't game relevant ^ Nai

On 12/11/2023 at 5:03 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

The last time I played with you was like MR65 and you were Elim there

Wait, if this is sharder's irl then do the elims use an actual physical document

Aeoryi banter

On 12/11/2023 at 5:05 PM, Ookla the Raveness said:

Hehe true, that is true

Nah man, they just gotta use that secret room

Wiz banter

On 12/11/2023 at 5:06 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

The bathroom?

16 players means 4 elims, right? Or 3 + SK? 

I don't know which one is more likely.

Probably 3 since so many deaths 

Aeoryi banter + theoretical size of Elim team

On 12/11/2023 at 5:11 PM, Ookla the Raveness said:

Well they could have one like the evil bank in....what is it...what is the name........oh

Despicable me

Idk I'm terrible at distros so yall are lucky I haven't run a game yet

I'm inclined to agree with your assessment though. 

Wiz theoretical Elim team size + banter

On 12/11/2023 at 5:15 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Want to stage an e/v interaction?

Aeoryi being weird again

On 12/11/2023 at 5:31 PM, Ookla of Ravens said:

ahem- im sorry i took a nap. whats going on, my gamers?

Raven banter

On 12/11/2023 at 5:32 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Wiz went back to the Elim secret room that totally isn't the bathroom, it appears

Aeoryi being weird and banter

On 12/11/2023 at 5:33 PM, Ookla of Ravens said:

i was having a very nice nap, shush.

Raven banter

On 12/11/2023 at 5:33 PM, Ookla the Raveness said:

Nah was a family thing I had to go do.

If you want an e/v I can go inactive and flip red

Wiz banter 

On 12/11/2023 at 5:35 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

No no, I meant an In-thread interaction to distance and all that fun stuff

Aeoryi being weird

On 12/11/2023 at 5:37 PM, Ookla the Raveness said:

That is the interaction

I vote you and go kapoofo and they never suspect you

Wiz banter

On 12/11/2023 at 5:38 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

I'm pretty sure more people suspect me than you. Do you want to be the villager and I make an opportunity seeking train proposal on you for going inactive?

Aeoryi being weird yet again

On 12/11/2023 at 5:39 PM, Ookla the Raveness said:

The inactivity isn't usually a choice...well it is but I lose energy and the will to make time for the game so that's usually an easy way to tell if I'm evil

Banter + Elim tsll

On 12/11/2023 at 5:39 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Okay

What's your neutral tell?

Question

On 12/11/2023 at 5:41 PM, Ookla the Raveness said:

I dunno, it's been a while and never really been neutral so

Best would be when I was Hoid in Ash's Shard game which was similar to my evil tell...though I'm trying to break those tells but this game won't help cuz I'm not evil 

Banter blah blah same as Elim tell

On 12/11/2023 at 5:41 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

I think the doc says otherwise:p

Unless ur SK?

Aeoryi being weird even more

On 12/11/2023 at 5:41 PM, neil the beguiled said:

  think like a lizard but big ^^

  im ngl i was rlly confused for a moment bc i didnt realize archer from earlier was the same person who claimed SK b4 TvT. was gonna question why everyone was poking for this new guy who claimed and not the first one xD. fwiw i kiiinda think that a SK claim like that leans town though? this is a person whos comfortable enough to joke. plus i kinda dont buy that sk or mafia would say that just to put all the pressure on them. i wouldnt trust a pr claim from this slot tho

  e/v?

 

anyways also howdies to everybody else who said hai o/

 

[also i learned that quotes dont bite.... still kinda scary] 

Neil first person to read archer as V for an illogical claim, banter - lean village

On 12/11/2023 at 5:42 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Eliminator (scum) and Villager (townie) interaction

Aeoryi clarifies

Wow! Nothing happened except Aeoryi being weird! Wow! 

[Kasimir he/him]

9 hours ago, Winnie the Pookla said:

I'm still content to leave my vote on Archer; his stirring up noise doesn't say anything about his alignment, and doing a "reaction test" like that is an easy way to get village points.

Nobody should believe your claim. And on D1 sticking your head out is just asking to get voted on. I think the natural variation in players is going to far outweigh any alignment distinguishers with this ploy.

I saw something about Kas and just want to mention that exeing Kas D1 is never a good idea. If he's village we want the elims to worry about Brandon protecting him, and if he's elim it will become patently clear (perhaps not to me, but definitely to others) well before the game ends. And if it doesn't, then that means Kas has become more comfortable with elimming, which I'll gladly trade for a loss.

I'm trying to understand this with regard to your views on Aman's own predilection for reaction tests. But I don't disagree that the claim wasn't particularly believable, just on the basis of the context. 

With regard to 'sticking your head out is just asking to get voted on' - does this influence your assessment of the likelihood of E!Archer here?

While I also appreciate the sentiment given my known antipathy towards/hatred towards being Evil, and definitely hope to have a chill/fun Evil game with you and Aman someday (still working on it, the offsite games are helping and I just came off a non-traumatising, chill Evil game so the jury's out on whether I can bring that attitude back to SE and fix my Village and Evil games), I'm sort of confused what motivated...this. Because I don't think I was under serious pressure or threat vote-wise, and the last time I died to anything not a NK was probably in 2018 or so. Though I guess the other site's probably trying to break that, woohoo.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Also, I would explain my whole chaosplay thing to you in a PM but never in thread and you would understand why if you knew so ykik shrugs

I am closing this browser tab if we're having a repeat of LG98b D1. I am done. I am not going to relive that ._.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

.I think @Kasimir you should consider what happened last MR, where I had a good C1* and a good C2** but then like, flunked out by C4. Maybe this is good enough to convince you that a talkative player as an elim is way easier to tell later on (did i nearly c1 archer but stopped myself right before rollover for this reason? You never know) so like please let me live

I'm not sure why you are overdefending right now. I know this is a you thing but I'm also not voting you right now. Devo has a train monopoly and I'm currently considering how I feel about that.

48 minutes ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

I'm like barely awake but like if I don't do my iso now it'll never get done ahhhhg sleep suspension it is then

Take it from AG8: doing analysis when dead tired gets you increasingly Pepe Silva trash.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Don't worry, I've told all the elims not to NK Neil in the doc so they won't. After all, we all know who the NK kill magnet is

Cool, continuing to ignore this because I'm not having a constructive response to forming a likely alignment-sensitive read.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

and yeah you have mislynched me for chaosplay before but tbh understandable but three games in a row is a big no no, so I prefer going back to my pre-elim days when I didn't always tunnel on every player and didn't ever get NK'd or lynched because I was always like 2 PMs away from flipping on my strongest V!read but ykik yeah yeah

I'd prefer not to. Part of the point is recalibrating your reads/what you take into account to how the player is, rather than asking the player to shift playstyles. I'm not asking you to not chaos, I'm asking you to not aggressively chaos at me right now because that is provoking a response neither of us will like if we're V/V.

I'll add for the record that while I know meta reads are controversial and it's been weird shifting from an environment where I am completely meta-blind to one steeped in meta, I do think they play an important function in allowing us to control for player foibles and oddities. I think that's worth preserving in an environment where we want to allow playstyle latitude.

7 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

But why does it have a post cap of 100? (Oh wait I have 53 posts on this thread lol)

If you don't like post caps, don't sign up for a light game of all things. MU doesn't allow post edits at all unlike us so you'd be busting that cap pretty fast.

And no, to clarify, I do not play on MU, our styles do not vibe at all. (Sorry Neil, not trying to uh, shoot down your other forum. I just don't vibe with that place, I'm too chill for it  )

1 hour ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Okay anyways I want to do reads but at the same time don't do I'm basically feeling the same way I do when I play elim wow no constant stress of being the first lurcher to claim in thread c1 ever wow no stress of self-voting and getting hammer c1 wow no stress of having vehemently defended a Elim okay this is getting out of hand but like reads are annoying to do whether I do them or not is probably up to how I feel at like 8 pm so anyways bye now for now I multiquote 

If you don't want to, why do them? Not everyone has to play by offering a complete set of reads, and sometimes it's more aggravating to do so. My dirty secret is some Village games I just don't feel like Villaging. It just happens that players guilt me into doing it (not deliberately), or I know I'm about to die so I force myself into one more round of analysis to try to leave as much as I can for Village/in the hopes I can leave it in a good spot. And I really shouldn't do that either, but that's probably why so many SE players feel my E!tells are fairly robust.

58 minutes ago, Ookla the Bald said:

While neither of those points is incorrect, they're not really related. I mean, never say never, and pocketing isn't really an early game/c1 thing. Like, I've certainly tried to kill Kas c1 as an elim. Not sure it's worked due to teammates being less fearful of the Mecha(nalysis) Kaszilla.

Mat tried to N1 me, yeah. So did Aman

Aman I forgive. He's my bro and he just wanted to end my suffering instead of making me cry trying to make myself exe him or fight him.

As Aman says, Meerkats are cute animals with dull teeth and claws, so I'm not really sure why you'd wanna C1 me! It all works out just fiiiiiiiine!

58 minutes ago, Ookla the Bald said:

I'd actually strongly argue against that. For one, if Kas is still alive c5, then you'll know if he's E, because there will be a pinch-hitter in his spot. Plus, on elim teams in the past, people are reluctant to kill Kas because he gets close enough to the truth that they're worried people will just follow his logic to the correct target. That's actually why I prefer to kill Kas early.

I actually requested a pinch-hitter in LG98, jysk. There was none available so I soldiered on. And I did get one late in LG95 as a Villager, which was Stick's wild experience of pinch-hitting into a slot and...not getting sussed  

@Ookla the Bald - I know you work better by C3, but can you offer Aeo or Devo thoughts at this juncture? If not them, thoughts on how we should proceed with regard to the SK? (I'd prefer if most people avoided this question - I do have a reason for asking, but I don't want an answer to this from most.)

So there are three sets of things I need to get done in the thread, but I'd rather not bloat this post too much. I'm avoiding giving a solid reads list largely because I don't want to redo it all over again after dealing with, to be real honest, the clusterchull on stilts that's Archer's reaction test. (I'll explain why I consider it a clusterchull when I get to it.)

I can say I've got negative leans on the set of: <Aeo, Devo, JNV, Ravenclaw, Aman.> I don't consider Aman a player I'm willing to D1, simpliciter, given he's returning and I don't play with him often enough. 

1. Reads
2. Archer's Clusterchull on Stilts
3. Contemporary vote analysis

They're all kind of intertwined, I know, this is more a reminder for me.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Kasimir
deleting a lot of extra space

[Aeoryi she/her]

EDIT ? 2

Yo this is what happened on pages 3-4 with special Aeoryi annotations yeah 

Spoiler

On 12/11/2023 at 5:44 PM, neil the beguiled said:

  ahhh icic. so when you flip red i can hard town raven xD?

^cannot tell if joke, I do not think this is the case

On 12/11/2023 at 5:44 PM, Ookla the Raveness said:

Welcome uhm...let's see if I can remember my pokemon  uh sandile? 

Lemme make it a proper welcome Neil

Poke vote banter 

On 12/11/2023 at 5:45 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

The neutral SK exists you can never be certain

Aeoryi being weird again I think Kas mighta had a point about this ntitai

On 12/11/2023 at 5:53 PM, neil the beguiled said:

  sandile!!!!! feeling very welcomed ^w^

  i will write down  aeoryi/raven not e/e regardless, and become bamboozled when you flip SK then :3

ive not played with a sk in a while though, im kinda hoping that sk will end up getting taken care of regardless by the eliminators here. are they common here? how do most ppl revolve around SK knowledge?

 

Mild interaction read, says unfamiliar with SK, 

On 12/11/2023 at 6:04 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

No. There hasn't been a serial killer role for ages. 

The current thoughts around sks are "if you get it gl"

EDIT: btw there are 3 people named "Raven" here:

1. (The person you are referring to) @Ookla the Raveness - Wiz/The Wandering Wizard

2. @Ookla of Ravens - TheRavenHasLanded- often just called Raven

3. @Ookla thePresentParticiple - Ravenclawjedi42- often called Raven as well

 

Aeoryi answer/clarify

On 12/11/2023 at 6:05 PM, Ookla the Raveness said:

Krookodile!!!!

Anyways I only ever played with a hidden serial killer faction. Steel's LG...don't remember the number 

Lets see...hmmm it was ah! LG 87: Choose your own many war

Anyways I don't like serial killers

Dunno how I'd win if I was one

I know! I'd go inactive cuz it's like being evil :P

Nightowl? Whoooo???? (Hehe sorry tis my weird way of saying Steel's LG had one)

Wiz doesn't like SK's but keeps archer around. Huh. 

Banter.

On 12/11/2023 at 6:08 PM, Ookla the Bald said:

*sighs* I thought we were done with that?

Aeoryi (Resolute) has a bit of a history of self-voting and semi-often dying for it. And yes, voting in red is the typical way that we vote. If you want to unvote, just put your original vote in Green. Bold is encouraged but bot necessary. 

Can't say I trust self-meta-reads, but that makes me a bit of a hypocrite, since I make them a lot. So, noted. 

TKN coming in with that piece of context but yes I am past that point

On 12/11/2023 at 6:08 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Okay.

Also, just realized the SK cannot be Elim killed. Must be Lynchkilled

Rules stuff 

On 12/11/2023 at 6:11 PM, Ookla the Raveness said:

It's just what I've noticed so far in recent games. If I go inactive kill me

Hehe sorry feeling a bit hyper tonight

I forgot about that

Banter 

On 12/11/2023 at 6:11 PM, Kasimir said:

Oh hey! I didn't know FR had mafia. My ex was into it so I played for a while but I think I mostly hung out with the Arcane folks and went ham on coatls and imperials.

SK's a delicate balance IMO. We want the SK dead at some point (if we let it get to lategame, we lose if we don't get them out) but early on I think I'm more interested in looking for Elims. Medium-term versus short-term problems IMO.

Just get an IM who is good at distros, or co-GM with someone better, that's how I do it  Also why LG74 used Fifth's Tricks distro.

I'd take MR56 as prima facie reason not to townlean claims from Archer fwiw. I think it's well within his range. 

Aman wb bro

Banter Aman vote from Kas and talks about distro

On 12/11/2023 at 6:14 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

It all would've been insane if it was e!mat that game. And if I doubled my vote.

Lucky coin was wrong.

I also self voted in LG97 (this one still gives me nightmares) and that worked somehow but idk we still lost

 

Aeoryi being annoying yet again banter

On 12/11/2023 at 6:14 PM, Kasimir said:

Edited to add:

Bold is pretty damn necessary if you want the GM not to suffer counting votes in a hyperactive thread...

Oh, @neil the beguiled - Just to be aware, we have a thing about clearly demarcating edits, but you can edit your posts as long as you don't change the content, just add to it. If Stick hasn't linked you to rules and etiquette yet, probably check it out.

The really important thing for you since you mentioned being a hyperposter is that posts now automerge if you try to post within fifteen minutes, and if no one else has posted. Just be careful of it  

Edited to add 2:

And you shouldn't be editing old posts anyway (though admittedly I do to maintain post justification), just the most recent one. ...This prospective merge aged badly.

Rules stuff

On 12/11/2023 at 6:20 PM, neil the beguiled said:

:noted: idm leaving my vote there for now at least tho. just better hope i dont forget by the end of the day xD. 

felt w self meta tho, though introspection on that is ~decent points

 

  top ten things i did NOT read. whoops

oh yeah theres a dedicated community there ^^ its kinda chill and lowkey, n theres also apparently some rp maf? it vibes. ironically i think arcane is the main flight that plays maf xD

mmm alright. i guess general scumhunting in general is the best way to play then...?

wrt to archer; if you dont think i should tl archer for that, how do *you* read archer then? (i will use context clues to assume archer openclaimed a scum role in the game youre referencing). do you disagree with the people voting him or think theres a scum possibility there?

 

dw stick told me abt that owob. ive kinda opted to sit back though in terms of posting 9and doing quotewalling now apparently xD bc of it. and dw i found the rules and etiquette page ^^. 

Rules stuff banter

On 12/11/2023 at 6:29 PM, Kasimir said:

I'm not sure why there's a question there - if it's NAI for Archer, then he's null, simpliciter, which means I'm open to voting him, but would rather apply pressure elsewhere. I have some further thoughts on the issue I don't want to get into now but will be willing to be more forthcoming later on in the cycle.

Oof RIP. Might check them out sometime but I deleted my account and stuff after the break-up. Might ask one of my Arcanist friends about it though!

YMMV. I just don't feel SK is an immediate priority. I'm just also warning Ravenclaw that we can't afford to ignore the SK either. In the MR someone linked, Village struggled for a while because I think they weren't killing an openwolfing Elim, but also because they had left it so long they needed to take out the SK. (Honestly even then I'm abstracting away a lot of the messiness but it's ~unnecessary drama you don't need to know.) I don't recall the precise number (ha, Mat, take that!) but it was something like a Joe game with Bleeder. MR42 I thiiiiiink?

We can absolutely do both and should do both in terms of PoE/tracking, but my priority is hitting an Elim if we can.

Cheers!  

Wallpost, lean v for this ngl pretty good points but it is Kas so lime

On 12/11/2023 at 6:34 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

It would be at this time that I would do a reads list but not everyone has posted so yeah it would be too hollow and would probably get me Exe'd like last time

 

Aeoryi trying not to sound Elim 101

On 12/11/2023 at 6:39 PM, neil the beguiled said:

ah okay. i will... sit back and let you cook for a moment then, ill keep an eye on that then. [i have some other thoughts but ill hold off for now and let u cook^^]

yeah fair enough!!! all the ppl ive met through it have been chill, theyre all a lot of fun ^w^

mmm typically in chat games ive played with killer (sk) people just kinda flailed around. i think in geenral the approach should just be to find scum as a whole, rather than specifically look for eliminators or sk? though sk could potentially kill elims here for us. a lot of waffling to say, lets find scum but if possible, find eliminators over sks?

though id hate if there was just the last scum left being a sk wrt associatives, i put a lot of stock into them so an independant party isnt great. weh. idrt this hypothetical helps much when theres no flips yet anyways

cheers!!!

 

 

Insights into sk, seems in line with the disbelief of the SK earlier so v lean

On 12/11/2023 at 6:40 PM, Ookla thePresentParticiple said:

I feel the same way, but as I don’t have any great leads now, I’ll vote for the possible Serial Killer.

^"possible" implies that you doubt it, and based on a previous post, you don't doubt it enough to not vote on it.

Strange logic.

On 12/11/2023 at 6:42 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Technically, the elims and the village still can win if the SK is still alive, since they do not count for either teams wincon. 

The elims actually have less of a reason to NK the SK, mainly because they can't, and the SK helps them greatly reach their wincon

Clarify + where the SK belongs balance wise

On 12/11/2023 at 6:44 PM, Kasimir said:

Appreciated, feel free to @ me later on if I forget. I'm more comfortable talking about it, say, past the 12 hour mark or so?

Here's the issue: since the SK is kill-proof here, the SK is not going to exactly be too scared to look Village and hunt Elims because that keeps them looking Villagery and they don't need to fear the NK. The fact a Village Lurcher exists means they have some cover for surviving the NK if they look Villagery. So I do in fact think that that Elim hunting here potentially points to the wrong PoE for the SK. I think they are two distinct pools/profiles, which is why I emphasise looking for both. No connections and TMI for the SK either. In short, it's possible for the SK to look fairly Villagery, though I'd agree they're not likely to go extreme Villagery since it'd bait the kill issue.

Yeah.

Edited to add:

Wait. We are not required to kill the SK?

I need to check this because what the hell, I swear every game I've played with an SK requires us to get them out.

Kas needs to read the syllabus x1

On 12/11/2023 at 6:45 PM, neil the beguiled said:

honestly ive been kinda wanting to throw out some reads myself so it'd make me feel a lot less awkward if you did ;n;

okay wait i rlly need to read then-  kriller on my homesite needs to be within the final 2 alive and can't joint win idt . holdup-

Wants to throw out some reads

Seems slightly performative but then again they are newish

On 12/11/2023 at 6:45 PM, Ookla the Destined said:

Twas  

I forgot the context 

On 12/11/2023 at 6:46 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

yeah.

 

Aeoryi banter

On 12/11/2023 at 6:49 PM, Kasimir said:

YEP. I s2g that's the normal freakin' set-up. Well not F2 last one standing.

Located and shared for collective sanity.

We don't need them out, but they need to be last one standing.

Kas believe in rules yeah stuff

On 12/11/2023 at 6:51 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

That's why the SK should claim now, since their wincon is near impossible to achieve 

Aeoryi being crazy x1

On 12/11/2023 at 6:53 PM, neil the beguiled said:

 

o7

hmmm. ok i didnt think about that. i think anything else that i want to say on this matter isnt rlly pro-town to disclose but i am nodding sagely along.

 

:wowee: associatives my. beloved

 

anyways i didnt think sk could win jointly (and i double checked and idt it... can?) but im gonna be oiff thread a bit, might read through but ill smell yall later

 

Neil banter

On 12/11/2023 at 6:54 PM, JNV said:

Its been like three hours and were already at three pages I know Dragonsteel 2024s exciting but wow anyway um honestly even if Archers telling the truth they dont count against our wincon unless they win and like at that point were all dead so yeah not the highest priority right now anyway as it turns out leaving a half done post to go eat dinner means the only thing you say gets pre empted by like everyone else in the game so yeah 

Anyway the JNV thats definitely at Dragonsteel right now is selling quokka charms like the nice ones they look like this first come first serve get them while supplies last

  Reveal hidden contents

 

You do realize the situation where the SK wins needs the others to have like a decent amount of uncertainty about hwo they are or else it comes down to the villgaer to decide who between SK and elim wins right

JNV banter + mild thought on sk

On 12/11/2023 at 6:57 PM, Kasimir said:

No. It isn't. It means they need to balance the Elims against the Village, which actually makes their play less pro-Village than I'd anticipated.

I think my current line of thought on the issue is: probably good to track, we don't want to be doing last minute SK hunt if things get close or when they start playing anti-Village, but absolutely focus on the Elims right here and now.

I don't think it matters sorry  I was working on the assumption we needed them out since that's standard. Since we don't, and since their PtV is pretty much playing Elims v. Village much harder than I thought (as either of us can win without them), I am not as concerned about the PoE blend issue than I was.

It can't. But we don't need them dead and we can win before them, so they have to deliberately block us from doing so. Good times /s

o7

Yeah I'm not reading every Kas wallpost ever I'd rather die so like this is Kas banter by Kas standard

On 12/11/2023 at 6:58 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Allow me to play it backwards

Let's say it is a 

2v : 1sk : 1e situation

A villager gets exe'd: elims win

A Elim getting Exe'd means village wins

SK being Exe'd means elims win probably 

Well the village wins when elims are dead. Ideally, the elims die and we don't have to worry about SK.

But SK will have different kill MO so watch out for that

Aeoryi flawed logic x1

On 12/11/2023 at 7:01 PM, Ookla the Raveness said:

I'll buy one!!! What do they cost?

Raven Banter

On 12/11/2023 at 7:04 PM, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Archer's probably claiming SK for the convention game because he did it 3 times. It's worth it to sacrifice Brandon (by them claiming) for the SK if the game is close and late, but SK isn't the priority since they don't know alignments more than a villager.

Easier for an elim to win a convention game, but think villagers more likely to care/less likely to risk suspicion. So Archer going for it without caring for the votes leans v.

Devo brings up convention game. I fail to see how this is TMI and if it is, then the claims surrounding it are a bit... Off the charts

On 12/11/2023 at 7:14 PM, Kasimir said:

Why is doing anything thrice remotely convention game indicative? Are you his opponent?

Kasmir doubt

On 12/11/2023 at 7:19 PM, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Not his opponent, but I have to do something thrice.

Devo dangling

On 12/11/2023 at 7:19 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

Because Devo is the sk

Aeoryi being weird x2

On 12/11/2023 at 7:34 PM, Ookla of Ravens said:

So, you saying that devo is a vsco girl? SKSKSKSKSK

Raven being weird x1

On 12/11/2023 at 7:35 PM, Ookla the Resolute said:

SK stands for 

Aerial killer

EDIT?

The amount of NAI in this thread reeks of refrigerator mold

ED2T:

willing to lynch:

Archer (the paradigm)

Araris (Winnie the pookla)

Aeoryi (the resolute)

JNV

TKN (the bald)

Ravenclawjedi42 (thepresentparticiple)

TheRavenHasLanded (Of ravens)

People I forgot

Not willing to lynch:

Kas

Neil

Labyrinth/Alpha/Ookla929

Wiz (the ravenness)

Devo 

Cash (the Rich)

Aman 

Ash

Coffee at 

Aeoryi being weird x3 + shallow reads list that she said she wanted to avoid like a few posts ago

On 12/11/2023 at 9:04 PM, Kasimir said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Kind of feel Wiz is in V!meta but not confident of that call due to getting confounded in LG95. 

Tentative ok with a weak meta-based V read of JNV. Going to highlight again that one doesn't bet the farm on it until after C3.

Slight potential E on Devo but based on one prong of a theory. Let's see how this goes.

Kas banter + instigates a Devo vote 

On 12/11/2023 at 9:06 PM, Ookla the Paradigm said:

@Ookla thePresentParticiple could you clarify if you think I'm lying or if you're conflating neutral and evil?

I don't understand this point.

Also, I told you I'm n, why are you leaning v 

Archer SK claim x3. That took... 5 hours to claim SK? And it was already debunked (sorta) by Neil? Why are you still attached to this my guy 

On 12/11/2023 at 9:14 PM, Kasimir said:

Is there a reason you think this is worth asking of Devo but not Neil?

Forgotten context but probably Kas banter

On 12/11/2023 at 9:16 PM, Ookla the Paradigm said:

I was asking Devo to clarify their post anyway, so I threw it in as a lil bonus. No one believes I'm a serial killer (except maybe PastParticple). 

Yeah I wonder why

Okay but Araris does so like dude are you trynna instigate a Ravenclawjedi42 train here or what

On 12/11/2023 at 9:19 PM, Kasimir said:

I dunno bro, maybe this is what you get for lying aggressively enough times to have a rep for it  

Kas doubt

On 12/11/2023 at 9:22 PM, Ookla the Bald said:

 Thanks for proving the point though. Very much highly encouraged, not technically required in most games run buy anyone other than Kas.

I believe you, you said it thrice, and if you know anything about the fey, they can't lie if you ask them thrice. You're just a bit of an (un)Conventional Serial Killer.

TKN with the most confusing post of all time. TKN being weird x1

On 12/11/2023 at 10:28 PM, Kasimir said:

Ah, but did you say you believe him thrice?

---

So apparently the guy with the boardgame was Araris, which should've been pretty clear since he had no soul. Kasim wondered if he was still holding a grudge about getting shot in the face C1 but he figured it was probably something he was better off not bringing up. And anyway, hadn't it been forever ago?

Yeah right. And Wilson (she didn't seem to be in this lot) was going to forgive him for teaching the filthiest crap to her phone's autocorrect.

He circulated among the group of SEers. Pretty much no one had heard of his WildKarrde handle anymore, which, he figured. Times had changed, somehow in the blink of an eye, he wasn't an undergrad anymore, and no one really looked up old games anyway. Hael wasn't at Dragonsteel and the last he'd heard from Doctor, well.

He tried to avoid that brief sense of loss, and turned instead to notice someone who was peddling an astonishing variety of quokka merch.

What, thought Kasim, in the world.

Kas banter 

On 12/11/2023 at 11:02 PM, neil the beguiled said:

mildly amusing to see your own name among the people you'd be okay condemning xD

i think atm i feel ~decent with you/aman/kas and maybe bald being off my vote list but im struggling to put some other names to users (theres too many gosh darn ravens xD). i dont think i remember much abt half the ppl in your unwilling to vote list; can you offer me a bit as to why some of them are in there ?

 

lol all good. theres just a bit of like. speculation i have in my brain but i dont rlly wanna put it into the thread bc id rather not start doing like. kill speculation itt xD. not my job at all

i would love a quokka... theyre so cute zomg...

i think wrt archers claim i still just... i dont know. i dont think it comes from an eliminator at least, and i wanna say its villagery though...? but mmm. lame answer but ig itd be better to see more from them /shrug

 

unrelated but Kas whats up with the bolded stuff mreow?

 

Neil still doubts Archer claim yeah makes sense yeah 

On 12/11/2023 at 11:09 PM, Kasimir said:

Tell me about it...I just realised your Raven/Aeo not E/E read was referring to Wiz and Aeo >> (I'd concur with it.)

Yeah agreed. We've established where the SK is wrt Village wincon so IMO needn't do too much work for them right now. Probably worth hanging on to if the situation gets more desperate but that's a later problem.

I mean, if you want to, you want to, right? I feel like my whole point of engaging you and arguing it's within Archer's range is...

IDK how to put it. I guess I'd put it like this: I can see the intuitive pull of the V read and I understand why you're making it. I probably would too but for reasons I'm not mentioning, and the fact that I just got off a LG with Archer pulling a WGG, so am freshly-reminded he has a very high risk appetite and the error-bars for a risk/attitude read tend to be bigger for Archer.

I don't think the game hangs on you reading Archer right C1 and it'd be kinda weird if it did. I guess my tldr; is if you feel strongly enough about it, it's probably worth listening to/holding your view because a bunch of people disagreeing is what makes the Village work. I bring it up because I think it's just worth putting it out there that this in particular is worth revising if you get other evidence going forward in future cycles because big error-bar.

If I talk about it, someone will probably snipe me

Edited to add:

Neil, what's the basis for your Aman read?

Kas banter

18 hours ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

im still new, and havent gotten an elim role yet. so that might help the thoughts on me, idk.

Slight fng + banter

17 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Elims can have teammates run cover for them to win their game without being noticed by their opponent and have a better chance of being able to guess other groups, but they'll be less willing to risk suspicion being thrown on them by pursuing a convention goal, whereas villagers like I was guessing you were (claiming x3 for a convention game) would be more willing to risk themselves to win a prize since it's less harmful for them to die, even Brandon is more likely to sacrifice themselves than an elim.

Devo logic+ banter

17 hours ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

why would pursuing a convention game goal be suspicious? if anything, i would call it a rather conventional strategy.

Raven being weird x2

16 hours ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

That confused me for a while too, but I think it's based on them hard-assuming that my convention game wincon is to claim serial killer. I think it's still a stretch to assign a read based on that, but it's also a bad assumption to make and I think villagers are more prone to those. 

Until proven wrong, I'm using this as your village tell

Idk what's going on here but imma flag this post as minorly sus and move on

16 hours ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

i have been told.

Raven banter yeah 

16 hours ago, Kasimir said:

This is weird to me. I'd expect an Elim to be more confident about making a bad assumption because it's easier to just backmask their way to the right conclusion.

Edited to add:

That is, specifically, I think the degree of confidence in your being a Villager is too damned high, and more suggestive of TMI.

Tunneling ?

 

[Kasimir he/him]

Oh yeah, the dirty Village secret thing - I promised myself to be really chill in Archer's QF so actually I was awake for the EoD. I sort of knew I should do reads or stuff just in case I got NKed but really wasn't in the mood for it so went back to sleep and gave thoroughly zero crems. Can recommend. Felt so good  

[Aeoryi she/her]

3 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I'm trying to understand this with regard to your views on Aman's own predilection for reaction tests. But I don't disagree that the claim wasn't particularly believable, just on the basis of the context. 

With regard to 'sticking your head out is just asking to get voted on' - does this influence your assessment of the likelihood of E!Archer here?

While I also appreciate the sentiment given my known antipathy towards/hatred towards being Evil, and definitely hope to have a chill/fun Evil game with you and Aman someday (still working on it, the offsite games are helping and I just came off a non-traumatising, chill Evil game so the jury's out on whether I can bring that attitude back to SE and fix my Village and Evil games), I'm sort of confused what motivated...this. Because I don't think I was under serious pressure or threat vote-wise, and the last time I died to anything not a NK was probably in 2018 or so. Though I guess the other site's probably trying to break that, woohoo.

I am closing this browser tab if we're having a repeat of LG98b D1. I am done. I am not going to relive that ._.

I'm not sure why you are overdefending right now. I know this is a you thing but I'm also not voting you right now. Devo has a train monopoly and I'm currently considering how I feel about that.

Take it from AG8: doing analysis when dead tired gets you increasingly Pepe Silva trash.

Cool, continuing to ignore this because I'm not having a constructive response to forming a likely alignment-sensitive read.

I'd prefer not to. Part of the point is recalibrating your reads/what you take into account to how the player is, rather than asking the player to shift playstyles. I'm not asking you to not chaos, I'm asking you to not aggressively chaos at me right now because that is provoking a response neither of us will like if we're V/V.

I'll add for the record that while I know meta reads are controversial and it's been weird shifting from an environment where I am completely meta-blind to one steeped in meta, I do think they play an important function in allowing us to control for player foibles and oddities. I think that's worth preserving in an environment where we want to allow playstyle latitude.

If you don't like post caps, don't sign up for a light game of all things. MU doesn't allow post edits at all unlike us so you'd be busting that cap pretty fast.

And no, to clarify, I do not play on MU, our styles do not vibe at all. (Sorry Neil, not trying to uh, shoot down your other forum. I just don't vibe with that place, I'm too chill for it  )

If you don't want to, why do them? Not everyone has to play by offering a complete set of reads, and sometimes it's more aggravating to do so. My dirty secret is some Village games I just don't feel like Villaging. It just happens that players guilt me into doing it (not deliberately), or I know I'm about to die so I force myself into one more round of analysis to try to leave as much as I can for Village/in the hopes I can leave it in a good spot. And I really shouldn't do that either, but that's probably why so many SE players feel my E!tells are fairly robust.

Mat tried to N1 me, yeah. So did Aman

Aman I forgive. He's my bro and he just wanted to end my suffering instead of making me cry trying to make myself exe him or fight him.

As Aman says, Meerkats are cute animals with dull teeth and claws, so I'm not really sure why you'd wanna C1 me! It all works out just fiiiiiiiine!

I actually requested a pinch-hitter in LG98, jysk. There was none available so I soldiered on. And I did get one late in LG95 as a Villager, which was Stick's wild experience of pinch-hitting into a slot and...not getting sussed  

@Ookla the Bald - I know you work better by C3, but can you offer Aeo or Devo thoughts at this juncture? If not them, thoughts on how we should proceed with regard to the SK? (I'd prefer if most people avoided this question - I do have a reason for asking, but I don't want an answer to this from most.)

So there are three sets of things I need to get done in the thread, but I'd rather not bloat this post too much. I'm avoiding giving a solid reads list largely because I don't want to redo it all over again after dealing with, to be real honest, the clusterchull on stilts that's Archer's reaction test. (I'll explain why I consider it a clusterchull when I get to it.)

I can say I've got negative leans on the set of: <Aeo, Devo, JNV, Ravenclaw, Aman.> I don't consider Aman a player I'm willing to D1, simpliciter, given he's returning and I don't play with him often enough. 

1. Reads
2. Archer's Clusterchull on Stilts
3. Contemporary vote analysis

They're all kind of intertwined, I know, this is more a reminder for me.

Oh yeah btw by the chaosplay point I mean explicitly WHY I do it, not what it means game-wise. I would rather not say why in thread because it relates to IRL stuff

Oh yeah and I swear by the word of wyrm that I will not ever d1 claim lurcher ever again I was probably singlehandedly the person that lost us the game.

Also, apparently light games are new player friendly (and where on earth is the quote button) but still

I realllllllyyyyyy wish I could explain chaos and why I do it to you but no that can be left for another time maybe

If I don't want to give reads, then why give them? 

Because I don't tend to live very long normally and I would like to live i won't lie.

But yes, forcing reads isn't going to help, but I do have a science fair thing coming up tomorrow at rollover so like it's not going to help me with my stress if I have to be worrying about doing reads later it's just going to bite me and I don't want that

Also, I am curious at where your negative read on me is coming from. I know that I always have a thing for being misread for anything but still like

Man I need to tear myself away from this screen before I write another insensitive thing oh my preservation it is late

[Kasimir he/him]

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Also, I am curious at where your negative read on me is coming from. I know that I always have a thing for being misread for anything but still like

I felt you were overcredencing some of your reads, actually, and I'm wary of overcredencing in players who don't typically overcredence often in their Village games. But I've also actually shifted it, believe it or not. I do think E!you can lay it on very thick when appealing to emotion - that raised my hackles in the MR66 PM before you did the openwolf claim. That being said, I did get a good tonal read off some of your earlier posts, enough to just kind of want to shrug and go on someone else this cycle.

That and the JNV vibes Keep Bugging Me. Will Not Stop. I don't understand why everything from their second post onwards is bugging me and I think I'm probably going to spend more of my energy this cycle working out why.

[Aeoryi she/her]

EDIT ?

1. My stance on the archer claim now that I think about it:

Spoiler

What if it wasn't intentional? e!archer could've been trying to do something but then realized it was stupid as so claimed it was a reaction test. Why? 

It would explain some things.

2. My annotations of pages 5-6 (they aren't even reads anymore)

Spoiler

16 hours ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

E!Devo though? I feel like they'd consciously avoid being wrong when evil. So running with limited information is a bold look for them

^I agree with this. For some reason I thought it contradicted with something from earlier but like..

16 hours ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

is that typically how e!devo would play? man, this is killing me.

Raven's first game related thoughts.

16 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I feel like she does have a bit of a tendency with results TBH - granted I'm working off MR56 here and that's a little more different because Calamity but I was remembering when we were 'does not compute' with Devo's susses and how she got there.

My MR66 read of her was based on pretty different stuff so I don't think I can comment on this too hard.

Kas banter

16 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

MR66 read was only based on what I did imo

And we nearly had a D2 Elim lynch I'm so glad that didn't happen

Also, here's a link to the Devo SK game:

IDk how did Devo even win this but like still it is possible.

 

Aeoryi being banter

16 hours ago, Kasimir said:

It wasn't, actually, but you're free to think what you want.

-

Right, I don't really believe too much is gained by waiting at this point. 

@neil the beguiled - As promised: my additional thoughts were that I considered it was quite likely a reaction test, but struggled to determine if the POV was a Villager seeking Elims on the basis of assumptions about Elim behaviour, or an Elim seeking to flush out the SK, since Elims really gain from us focusing on the SK as compared to Elim hunting. Also targeting possibilities there since the Elims really don't want to waste their kill on the SK, and it helps them work out who the Lurcher might be protecting.

Some of this was based on my initial assumptions on the SK's wincon and becomes a bit different in the current landscape but also depends on Archer's own assumptions of the SK. I didn't feel the point in highlighting it or being too on the nose about it because Archer's yelled at me enough times about letting him do him without getting in his way, and I've just come off a game where a player kept getting between me and the player I was trying to apply pressure to, so I just could not get a decent reaction/response at all.

Having been annoyed by it, it didn't feel right to do it to Archer.

Do I V!read Archer? Well, it depends on what he does with this. I can see a case for V!Archer, I'm just not willing to commit to it without seeing what he's going to do with the results. Part of why I questioned his Devo read and his asking Devo but not you - it's clear Archer is asking pretty much everyone who had a concrete reaction. (It's true he doesn't ask Araris, either, but Araris is gonna Araris.)

Kas existing

16 hours ago, Ookla thePresentParticiple said:

Yes. I can see how that would be very confusing considering how I believe both. If you are a Serial Killer, yes you are less important to kill than the elims, but we should still exe you sooner rather than later. And if you aren't--which is quite likely--than your motive is...interesting. It definitely changes things to learn that you had claimed SK many times before in games like this one, but I'm still not certain. Devo brings up an interesting point in saying that the convention game could be involved, I'm not sure how I feel about it, though. And it could have been trying to find our reactions, but I never seem to really trust those.

So basically I don't have many opinions thus far.

Strange post by Raven flag and move on

15 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Archer

Claim neutral = probably a IKYK a

Aeoryi being weird x4

15 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Why?

 

---

There was only so long Kasim could perambulate through the crowd of SE players. He'd never had much of a good memory for faces and while he dutifully tucked the dizzing array of names and faces away in his mind, he was pretty sure he'd have it all forgotten by the evening.

So many handles he didn't remotely know. He really didn't belong at all, did he? It wasn't his time anymore. His time and come and gone: no one seemed to know Aonar or Twei (memories of hours sank into Aonar's diagrams in House Morinthe) and getting murdered by Araris in some space game he barely remembered, though quite frankly, he'd probably deserved it after getting drunk and shooting Araris in the face. 

Hael and Doctor wasn't around, and no one knew Jain either. What did you gain from this, Kasim wondered. What was the point of all of this?

He made his way to the edge of the circle. Just to get some space from people.

There was a commotion going on at the end of the hall. Nervous gasps, and chattering. Sobs.

Something told Kasim it was going to be ugly.

He reached the end of the hall, poking his way through the crowd and stared at the dead woman, the note taped to her chest.

Kasim really, really hoped someone was going to call the police.

There was SE. But this was real life. You had to do the legwork: forensics, interview connections, trace Elandera's last moments. Right?

Somehow, though, he had a sinking feeling that some of the SE people weren't going to be reasonable about this.

Kas banter

15 hours ago, Ookla the Raveness said:

It'll be back to normal in like a week

Do we know if survivals are announced?

Wiz banter

15 hours ago, Kasimir said:

My presumption is that it'd be announced, since that's standard practice. @Ookla the Destined?

Kas banter 

15 hours ago, Ookla the Raveness said:

Standard yes but there's also the serial killer who would survive so either it gets announced and the player could be the serial killer or a villager...or an Elim cuz they wgg with a pocketed Brandon Sanderson...which is kayana in all worlds.

Wiz banter 

15 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I do think that's the point of the Lurcher - giving a shield to the SK.

Edited to add:

To be clear, from a game-design perspective. Hence the Lurcher preceding the SK on stretch goals.

Kas banter he's right imo about game design

15 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Kinda sus question ngl

 

Aeoryi being weird x5

15 hours ago, Ookla the Raveness said:

Yeah that's pretty brilliant!

Why do you think so?

Wiz confused

15 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

You could've asked that on our doc so that proves youra sk

Aeoryi being weird x6

15 hours ago, Kasimir said:

How exactly by the way do you expect an Elim to WGG in a game without PMs?

Edited to add:

Oh ffs I forgot this game is a MR I could've held off until Rollovet god I'm so sorry Archer my brain kept going 'yeah rollover is in a couple hours let's do this' my bad nvm.

Kas banter 

15 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

They ask in thread or in their doc

Aeoryi being weird x7

15 hours ago, Kasimir said:

This question was meant for Wiz, thank you.

Edited to add:

Gonna be blunt, Aeo, I feel you're laying it thick on the chaosplay right now and it's not helping my read of you. I'd rather not tunnel on you if you're Village this time, so I'd really ask you go chaos someone else and let me just do me because I really do not want to kneejerk vote you.

Kas is not liking the Aeoryi being weird stacks accumulating, and honestly I don't either.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Wait

@Ookla the Destined Is Brandon Sanderson a garunteed village role

Aeoryi banter

15 hours ago, Ookla the Destined said:

Yes.

Gm

15 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Trolling is in the spirit of SE...

But fine

 

Aeoryi being weird x8

15 hours ago, Kasimir said:

It may be, but right now it's flipping the 'chaos = Evil' button in my brain and if you're Village, it's a button I'd rather not have flipped for the third time, seeing as it's made me sus you pointlessly in I think three games by now.

Kas banter he has a point it's just pointless

15 hours ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

I didn’t get a SK counter-claim, but I think this has run its course. Obviously it was a lie (sorry, TKN. Should have made me hold an iron horseshoe). Reaction recap, loosely ordered from n>v>e!:

-Ashbringer: no comment.

-JNV: no comment.

-Raveness: no comment.

I couldn’t have made my claim more unmissable, but Ash and JNV fit the profile of people who did. Curious why Raveness didn’t comment on it. E!me would feel compelled to respond to the test, even knowing it was a test, so my instinctive read for ignoring it is village.

-Araris: stab votes me for claiming SK.

-Kas: calls it a NAI reaction test

These reactions are within their metas. It was very funny watching Kas try not to ruin the test but then commenting on it anyway. Araris’ is less organic, but it’s NAI for him.

-Neil: village read for “joking”.

The innocent new guy play is to believe the SK claim, not disbelieve it and ascribe a village read for it. Caveated by them being known by fellow players. 

-Ookla the Past Participle: Playing both sides, I’m either neutral or I’m evil.

Technically, this is the most scummy response. But it also reads as genuinely indecisive, and that overrides my suspicion.

-Devo: village read based on assumed fakeclaim because of convention game

They pinged my gut last night. I had to read between the lines to figure out what Devo was thinking. But I’ve decided that that’s a villagey look for them because e!they is intentional enough with their wording to avoid misunderstandings. An unforced error from e!they would be surprising, as would a weird take on a straightforward test.

-Ookla the Bald: believes neutral claim

Really?

-Ookla the Resolute: Doesn’t believe it for a second. You can tell because they ask Raveness what their neutral tell is, Raveness if they’re the SK.

My working theory was they’re the real SK (chaos = neutral). Refusal to engage with and believe my claim followed by obsession with the topic points that way. That theory can hold the vote on me as being neutral pettiness (if you’re going to vote someone, vote the guy claiming your job). Otherwise it’s a weird (opportunistic) turn that I'm inclined to suspect. 

 

My theorized elim reaction was that they wouldn’t 1/ believe my claim AND 2/ advocate for my death. No sense killing off your first-half ally. I don’t think enough people took me seriously for that to come into play. If I were to call people out for being cautious, Kas, Devo, and the no comments tripped that wire.

Ookla the Bald

I'm not doing analysis on this post again archer banter

14 hours ago, Ookla the Raveness said:

Huh? I could have also just asked in my GM PM instead of the thread amd gotten an answer. 

I don't

Like I said it was a kayana world

Wiz banter

14 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Why would n!aeo make a train vote on you if your my current cover?

Idk

I'm also pretty sure I didn't realize you claimed neutral until after I logged off the shard, In which my thought process was:

1. Archer is claiming neutral? Wait what?

2. Why would the SK claim neutral? That's just a recipe for disaster, and you've just made it impossible to win.

3. Why would an Elim claim neutral? It just gets them voted out eventually and gives them attention and a watch on them. It's not a position you want to be in as an Elim.

4. They must be a villager. But in what world does v! archer claim? It's just bad for the village overall

5. They must be the Sanderson, trying to hide behind the protection of the neutral being non-parity.

That's why I didn't want to explain this in thread. I didn't want to put a potential v! Sanderson!you in thread.

Also, if I was the SK.. *rubs hands*

Lemme go ask mat who is the Sanderson for a moment

...

That didn't work 

Aeoryi being weird x9 and having bad logic

14 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I TRIED OKAY I TRIED

Kas banter

14 hours ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

i have been immediately been written off lol. you know what, i appreciate that. 

 

 

Raven ran sprints. god, this is stressful. think, think, think, we could fix this... but how? we need to get rid of the crazy people. like, make them go away.. because they are scary. but i also dont wanna end someone's experience too early- that would be mean. dammit, i cant- i hate this. 

He slows down, then walks to cool down. "Look, i- this is too much, im not sure if this should be done, because if we are wrong it would be devastating."

Raven banter

14 hours ago, Ookla the Rich said:

Cash wanders the halls, overwhelmed by the fact he is here at the convention. He was also overwhelmed by the fact that he misread the start time…. Arriving 18 hours late was not a good look. He was already late, so he thought “Let’s grab some food before showing up”. 
 

Yeah I have no reads so far.  I’m gonna let this play out for the next few hours before voting. 

Cash banter also somewhat hedgy but wdik

14 hours ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

If it's not Ookla the Bald, I'm going to riot 

How did you miss me claiming neutral, I did it IN ALL CAPS

"A platypus?"

Archer banter

14 hours ago, Ookla the Rich said:

*puts on a fedora*

Banter

14 hours ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

"PLAYER who's a platypus!" 

BANTER

14 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Welcome to tunneling with Aeoryi! Today's subject of stretch logic and poor reasoning is Archer/Ookla the Paradigm!

I'm inclined to believe archer, but also I feel like e!/n!archer could do something like this. 

Example:

WGG Gambit from last LG (LG98b) - there was literally no reason to do it except to claim self-protect lurcher and damn me with the "One of the Lurchers is Lying Lynch them both" so like ...

And e!archer has claimed fake roles:

Examples:

LG92- claimed "Rules ignorer" which supposedly could be immune to all night actions if they asked about the rules in thread during the day. Actual: "Gambit god" which made them role-block all night actions targeting them.

MR56- Claimed "Medium" which could ask 3 true or false questions to any dead player and had a one-oof revival. Actual: "Incinerator" which could surpress alignment flips for either NKs or Lynches

- -

But what has Archer done this game?

1. Made an (im0) obscure neutral claim that didn't make sense when backwards logicked

2. Expected more people to interact with that claim.

INTERMISSION:

You said you were a cereal killer, not a Serial killer, last I checked, and I noted it, but passed it off as it was probably a joke.

3. But also acknowledged that the claim wasn't very good. So yeah.

Verdict: Yeah he's probably village

Archer

Ravenclawjedi42 

I'm going to go look at them probably eventually expect that at some point

 

@Ookla the Rich I see u viewing the page

I think cash has played a game before? (Ash's honorblade game) I'll go check after this gimme a sec

 

EDIT:

Here's where he claimed I think:

^^^

You expect people to believe this clear-cut claim

Aeoryi makes no sense v2

14 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I'd note here that Ravenclaw's E!meta (cf. LG98a v. LG98b) tends to be pretty placatory/deferring to majority opinion. I think Ravenclaw sticking to a pretty different position here is a good look for them.

Plays on MU and a bunch of other fora. Really wouldn't take FNG as his baseline here.

Disagree with this one, but it's why I voted Devo and referenced to a prong of a theory. Feel Devo is over-credencing and feel that emerges from potential TMI. Part of it I admit is that it feels way more clean than my own thought process: I kept going back and forth trying to work out if you were E or V. The V call here feels like it has less fog-of-war than it should. I agree there's LG84 where I also sussed/tunnelled Devo for it, but there, Devo and I both had clean non-fog-of-war inferences, and that's not my experience here.

I wonder, honestly. I feel the lesson Aman taught was that the correct response is to bury yourself in the crowd or be a late responder - kneejerks are just bad for Elims.

Was TKN not being sarcastic? It read pretty sarcastic to me.

Kas banter

14 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Devo is pretty crafty when Elim I wouldn't expect them to TMI themselves that easily but I agree that the logic comes from a place where there are not a one digit number of dimensional planes but like 

Devo actually confuses me now that I think about it

EDIT: 

Also, newer, inexperienced elims might go to the doc or immediately respond- I can tell you I would've immediately responded no matter what alignment.

I don't count Neil as a new player (I still say don't c1 nk them) but I like the contributions they've been giving so I'm tentatively reading them as v

Aeoryi banter 

14 hours ago, Ookla the Bald said:

Do you honestly think I believed that? Especially when my logic for doing so was "the Fey can't answer with a lie if you ask them thrice."

I did appreciate the puns though, specifically Siri et al killer. Very creative.

I figure it's pretty NAI, especially if it's related to the convention game. Though I do think it being a fake Convention game would be village leaning, but I doubt there's any way to prove that.

?

13 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Thank you for asking this, was just about to. Break is over though so I haven't caught up on pages 5 and beyond

Are you hungry, Devo? Cause I'm hungry

Aman hungry for more

13 hours ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

thank you for saying that lol. you have eliminated someone for my convention game. 

Raven banter

13 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

I'm pretty sure I've already won my CG a long time ago but I could be wrong.

Aeoryi banter

13 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I gotchu ThreadPMBro

Kas banter

13 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

EDIT(?)

Also, I asked mat who was the Sanderson and it got PAFO'D 

Aeoryi BANTER 

13 hours ago, Coffeecat said:

Know what? I expected this; how can you get a bunch of SErs in a room and have them not kill each other.

I don't expect I will be murdered soon, I am just so un-talkative that I probably will get forgotten even by the killer.

Look, I'm just gonna sit on a corner and reread TWOK for the 7th time.

Love being here in my first con but I'm broke now.

Meh what did I expect, I probably won't even get to ask Brandon anything will I.

Even though I didn't think of anything to ask him but still.

 

Banter

13 hours ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

i mean, if anything, the cons are that you have lost money, but the pros are that you are at cons.

Banter I know your cgwc now Raven thanks

13 hours ago, Ookla the Rich said:

Yeah I was in the honorblade game about a year ago. Village and started with an honorblade, got lynched while holding it. 

Cash banter

13 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I think the point isn't newer, inexperienced Elims per se - it's Archer treating the compulsion to immediately respond as the likely projected Elim response that doesn't feel quite right to me. But I'm also more or less of the view that outlier analysis is more helpful for identifying Elims in response to a reaction test - cf. TKN in the last AG. The difficulty is identifying the right set of outliers.

FWIW it's why I asked Araris the question I did about Spiked #2 - Tani's overjustification didn't feel right for what was supposed to be a fairly kneejerk thought process and while she was buried within a particular strata of responses, her response was still quite distinctive.

Will I run my own analysis on Archer's reaction test - probably, yeah, but not right now as I need to refresh my mind before coming back to this game. Since there's way more time to EoC than I was expecting, I'm willing to not rush this.

Edited to add: To precisify - when I say it doesn't feel quite right, I'm being literal here. I don't think it's the correct response to project. I don't regard it as being negatively indicative.

Kas banter

12 hours ago, JNV said:

Ten dollars each and tips welcome first twenty purchases come with a free quokka sticker from this pack I found in my bag come buy a quokka friend today great prices high value

  Reveal hidden contents

Hey I did comment on it I said it doesnt matter either way cause SK doesnt count against our wincon and honestly I kinda wrote it off cause its you but I also didnt want to say that cause of that last time we misvoted you cause you were trying to be less gambity

JNV gets village points for this

12 hours ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

"sir, do you even have a license?"

Banter

12 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I'll also add, FWIW, as I'm tired of relitigating this point as it's come up several times and not just wrt my Devo read:

I think it's pretty obvious that I don't share my full thought process in the thread because the thread doesn't need me doing a full infodump there, even if I do use it as a thought scratch table. I also think that sometimes raw thoughts are unhelpful because players can misunderstand your uncertainties, or even worse, it misleads Village after you're dead when you're really playing with rough working rather than solid thoughts. GM PMs take some of that load, as do PMs with other players. I also on occasion just incoherently ramble to Wyrm, Drake, and Stick.

I also sometimes just don't have it written down, and get there because of iteration, i.e. by articulating variants of the same thought multiple times and slowly drawing mental connections or shifts.

You can buy that I did in fact have this thought process, or that I didn't, I really don't care. But I'd like if we stop assuming that the only thoughts I have are the ones visible in the thread. I don't always articulate everything that's going on in my head when I vote or do things or express suspicions because, astonishingly, I have a filter and know it's not always helpful. I stand by my comments about outlier analysis being more helpful wrt reaction tests, even if it's damned hard to finangle.

Hey @JNV, I'm curious: what is the current state of your reads rn?

Kas banter

12 hours ago, Ookla the Bald said:

I just want to say, and to confirm those words for anyone doubting, Kas talks everywhere. He talks in docs, PMs, and the thread just from what I've seen, and I'm pretty sure, based off of a lot of comments over time, that he talks in many other places as well.

Suffice it to say, Kas doesn't (well, can't for very long) put in enough effort when E to get those leaps, and they're very within his V!MO.

TKN clarify

12 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

I just read LG74 and learned who wyrm is

Banter

 

[Kasimir he/him]

10 minutes ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

If I don't want to give reads, then why give them? 

Because I don't tend to live very long normally and I would like to live i won't lie.

Aeo, with all due respect, please get rest. I don't think people exeing you or not exeing you is going to hinge on you giving reads at this point, and one of the players who did get ??? over you, Neil, has explicitly stated he doesn't want to push you this cycle so you're fine. I for one regret ignoring that good tonal read in late D2 of LG98b but also am coming off having MLed you three games in a row so the read bar to actually push and exe you this cycle was always going to be higher in my head. Sure maybe you're E, that can be a later cycle problem, I'm cool with that.

Like look. Pareto principle right. Do you expect tired reads to significantly/materially contribute to the Village or that a significant chunk of players here - apart from, IDK, Neil, Archer, Aman if not busy, Araris - will go over that reads list and engage with it, or be significantly informed by it? On the flip side, do you think that it's proportionally in terms of effort-reward ratio in terms of how much it can contribute to you not getting exed?

Pragmatically, assuming you're V, there's a good chance you say something in exhaustion that just looks even more sus or gets taken the Wrong Way, which is even more counterproductive.

Also like people need to stop it with the Orlok 'i gotta give reads/get contemporary to get back in the game later on though' like...just don't? Just show up, Christ, it's a lot better to have you here and now than slogging to slowly do it bit by bit.

[Aeoryi she/her]

14 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I felt you were overcredencing some of your reads, actually, and I'm wary of overcredencing in players who don't typically overcredence often in their Village games. But I've also actually shifted it, believe it or not. I do think E!you can lay it on very thick when appealing to emotion - that raised my hackles in the MR66 PM before you did the openwolf claim. That being said, I did get a good tonal read off some of your earlier posts, enough to just kind of want to shrug and go on someone else this cycle.

That and the JNV vibes Keep Bugging Me. Will Not Stop. I don't understand why everything from their second post onwards is bugging me and I think I'm probably going to spend more of my energy this cycle working out why.

Idk I just get very irritable as Elim. EDIT: and in general

The pressure is real when you know it will be a close game

4 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Aeo, with all due respect, please get rest. I don't think people exeing you or not exeing you is going to hinge on you giving reads at this point, and one of the players who did get ??? over you, Neil, has explicitly stated he doesn't want to push you this cycle so you're fine. I for one regret ignoring that good tonal read in late D2 of LG98b but also am coming off having MLed you three games in a row so the read bar to actually push and exe you this cycle was always going to be higher in my head. Sure maybe you're E, that can be a later cycle problem, I'm cool with that.

Like look. Pareto principle right. Do you expect tired reads to significantly/materially contribute to the Village or that a significant chunk of players here - apart from, IDK, Neil, Archer, Aman if not busy, Araris - will go over that reads list and engage with it, or be significantly informed by it? On the flip side, do you think that it's proportionally in terms of effort-reward ratio in terms of how much it can contribute to you not getting exed?

Pragmatically, assuming you're V, there's a good chance you say something in exhaustion that just looks even more sus or gets taken the Wrong Way, which is even more counterproductive.

Also like people need to stop it with the Orlok 'i gotta give reads/get contemporary to get back in the game later on though' like...just don't? Just show up, Christ, it's a lot better to have you here and now than slogging to slowly do it bit by bit.

*Sigh*

Yeah I probably will. It is just a game, after all. Some times I have trouble remembering that 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Ookla the Resolute

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Yeah I probably will. It is just a game, after all. Some times I have trouble remembering that 

Same, tbf. But the offsite community is helpful for that. Not saying SE is toxic, but playing in a super chill environment where I don't feel players are expecting anything from me at all and where I don't feel obligated to give Village everything/not let my teammates down has been very helpful for restoring perspective.

It's just a game. It's okay to check out. Sleep matters more for your sanity, ability to analyse, and health, Village will take care of itself, and you reaaaaally aren't near being exed right now.

[Amanuensis he/him]

13 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Aman: yeah he needs to post more 

Don’t remind me. I’m hungry. Still

12 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

It was to post the phrase 'Cohesion and tension' or vice versa three times. What doesn't make sense here? Is your convention goal just completely and utterly different than posting something?

I wonder who’s the other person that needs to say I’m hungry three times, then.

@Ookla the Destined does that count? XD

 

Kas Thread PM. Do not open unless you are Kas or the GM / IM. Violation of this will result in death.

Spoiler

 

10 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Why for the love of Honor would you expect a freakin SK counterclaim what the actual hell.

I considered doing it tbh, but have since decided to claim Brandon

ED1T:

Whoops accidentally leaked my very fatal PM to Kas. For your sake, don’t look again.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Amanuensis

[Ookla de los Cuervos he/him]

ha! im pretty reasonable. 

AEO DANG YOU-

Its too early to get anyone for now. 

[Coffeecat she/her]

Oh dear I hope no one thinks I'm suspicious because of my shyness...

 

Oh dear there it is. Look I think it's too early to tell who is what, and also I don't know anyone here. There have been a few weird things going on, and I think it's best to wait before I form an opinion.

 

[Amanuensis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Coffeecat said:

Oh dear I hope no one thinks I'm suspicious because of my shyness...

 

Oh dear there it is. Look I think it's too early to tell who is what, and also I don't know anyone here. There have been a few weird things going on, and I think it's best to wait before I form an opinion.

Tbh you were on my list of slots to pressure, alongside Ash, Alpha, and Cash.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Amanuensis