Implications on post Stormlight Archive events

[+Oltux72 he/him]

• The Evil is still active on Threnody - not an earthshattering relevation
• Deadeyes still exist - that is very significant. Is Ba-Ado-Mishram never recovered?
• The Knights Radiant still exist
• Sel & Nalthis survive

[therunner he/him]

Regarding Deadeyes, where did you take that from?
Implication from Scadrians that Rosharan mercenaries can carry Blade and be un-Oathed?

Another option outside of Ba-Ado-Mishram not being recovered is that even after BAM is restored, existing Deadeyes will remain deadeyes, unless healed by some further process. Perhaps the 'reverse Nahel bond' that Adolin perhaps starts is not very easy to replicate, or it can restore Deadeyes to a very limited extent.

Also, Sigzil does not seem to have killed his previous spren, which means at that point BAM must have been restored.

Edited October 2, 2023 by therunner

[+robardin he/him]

What do you mean, "deadeyes still exist"?

If you mean what happens with Aux after giving up the last of their identity/consciousness and becoming a "dead Shard", one that would appear next to Zellion after he dies, that's still NOT what we see as "deadeyes" in SA through Rhythm of War. 

Because he's still able to summon the "corpse" of Aux without waiting ten heartbeats, and to reshape it at will - including giving it an "external power source" like the sunheart sliver to give it extra Investiture to convert into "magical mass" to make that giant All-Day Dome-Shield for the remnant Beaconites.

Unlike with Mayalaran in RoW (as a window into all other "deadeyes" of the Recreance), Aux is now "burned away entirely... truly separated from the soul that had inhabited it", but still a useable pile of moldable, bonded Investiture.

[+robardin he/him]

2 minutes ago, therunner said:

Regarding Deadeyes, where did you take that from?
Implication from Scadrians that Rosharan mercenaries can carry Blade and be un-Oathed?

Another option outside of Ba-Ado-Mishram not being recovered is that even after BAM is restored, existing Deadeyes will remain deadeyes, unless healed by some further process. Perhaps the 'reverse Nahel bond' that Adolin perhaps starts is not very easy to replicate, or it can restore Deadeyes to a very limited extent.

Also, Sigzil does not seem to have killed his previous spren, which means at that point BAM must have been restored.

Ah, I see, maybe that is what the OP meant about "deadeyes still exist" - the implication that people expect a Rosharan with a Blade and gallivanting around the Cosmere to be a mercenary.

That would make sense, as having a live spren bond is supposed to make getting out of the Rosharan system very difficult. We've seen that Hoid has managed it by the time of Yumi and the Nightmare Painter, and what appears to be a full KR with livespren armor on a spaceship in Sixth of the Dusk, but the technique may well still be only known to a select few.

OTOH most or all the "deadeyes" from the Recreance being left in that state forever (more or less) seems quite possible, and whatever changes on Roshar in the wake of the Duel of Champions in SA5 or later may well have magic-system-altering implications for Rosharan Surgebinding such that one could now easily take a deadeye Blade off-world (where up to SA4 that appears not to really be possible).

[therunner he/him]

Just now, robardin said:

That would make sense, as having a live spren bond is supposed to make getting out of the Rosharan system very difficult. We've seen that Hoid has managed it by the time of Yumi and the Nightmare Painter, and what appears to be a full KR with livespren armor on a spaceship in Sixth of the Dusk, but the technique may well still be only known to a select few.

Small correction, even Deadblades are impossible to carry of Roshar as of RoW.
So existence of Rosharan mercanaries with Blade in fact implies that ability to get spren off-world is universal now, and not limited to selected group (or at least relatively easy to achieve).

[+robardin he/him]

6 minutes ago, therunner said:

Small correction, even Deadblades are impossible to carry of Roshar as of RoW.
So existence of Rosharan mercanaries with Blade in fact implies that ability to get spren off-world is universal now, and not limited to selected group (or at least relatively easy to achieve).

Yes, I referred to that as falling under the umbrella of some "whatever changes on Roshar in the wake of the Duel of Champions in SA5 or later may well have magic-system-altering implications for Rosharan Surgebinding such that one could now easily take a deadeye Blade off-world", but where "oathed" KRs going off-world may still be rare - though the Scadrians seemed to realize that's what Zellion was, or likely was, when he started "talking to nobody". So maybe both are equally possible by that point.

And I would assume that means "oathed" Shardbearers would not be mercenaries, seems like most orders wouldn't cotton to such a thing, right?

[+Oltux72 he/him]

14 minutes ago, therunner said:

Regarding Deadeyes, where did you take that from?
Implication from Scadrians that Rosharan mercenaries can carry Blade and be un-Oathed?

That and that a Thaylen carried around a book that says that dead Shardblades materialize if the Shardbearer has been killed.

In fact, all of Roshar has only about 150 or so blades. Yet, it is credible if a random Rosharan shows up that he has a dead blade? Yes, random farmers may be unlikely to do a trip off world at that time. Still this suggests to me that the number of Deadeyes has risen. Maybe somebody gathered them in Shadesmar?

9 minutes ago, therunner said:

So existence of Rosharan mercanaries with Blade in fact implies that ability to get spren off-world is universal now, and not limited to selected group (or at least relatively easy to achieve).

Yes. Nomad claimed to have traveled through the Cognitive Realm. Spren are no longer bound to their home system. And that applies to all spren, deadeye or not.

[therunner he/him]

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

That and that a Thaylen carried around a book that says that dead Shardblades materialize if the Shardbearer has been killed.

That book was explicitly called out as out-dated though.

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

In fact, all of Roshar has only about 150 or so blades. Yet, it is credible if a random Rosharan shows up that he has a dead blade? Yes, random farmers may be unlikely to do a trip off world at that time. Still this suggests to me that the number of Deadeyes has risen. Maybe somebody gathered them in Shadesmar?

There are thousands of Blades (just Windrunners and Stonewards would have left ~2000 Blades at least), most are just either lost or hidden somewhere. But with access to Shadesmar it should be easier to locate them.
 

[+robardin he/him]

38 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

That and that a Thaylen carried around a book that says that dead Shardblades materialize if the Shardbearer has been killed.

In fact, all of Roshar has only about 150 or so blades. Yet, it is credible if a random Rosharan shows up that he has a dead blade? Yes, random farmers may be unlikely to do a trip off world at that time. Still this suggests to me that the number of Deadeyes has risen. Maybe somebody gathered them in Shadesmar?

Yes. Nomad claimed to have traveled through the Cognitive Realm. Spren are no longer bound to their home system. And that applies to all spren, deadeye or not.

Actually, a worldhopping Thaylen carring an "outdated" but still spoiler-ific Worldhopper's Guide To the Cosmere, 2nd Ed., Silverlight Press isn't the most interesting thing.

It's that this Thaylen had a Scadrian entry key to the research station. But there are only Scadrians in there, I think?

If the Thaylen were part of that research group, wouldn't they have acted to save him from the Cinder King (who at that point, was not a "Cinder King" with a Master Cinderheart from a partial transformation, a technique discovered by - and granted him by - those Scadrians he hadn't met yet)?

And why would such a researcher have a book like that, anyway?

More likely, the Old Thaylen Guy was a 17th Sharder tracking down the Ghostblood-y cell of Scadrians on this planet, who saw this power-hungry guy learn about the Cosmere, and figured hey, we can get sunhearts from him more easily, and showed themselves to him. Since it's such a one-sided relationship, it would make more sense for the Scadrians to have initiated it.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

59 minutes ago, robardin said:

It's that this Thaylen had a Scadrian entry key to the research station. But there are only Scadrians in there, I think?

If the Thaylen were part of that research group, wouldn't they have acted to save him from the Cinder King (who at that point, was not a "Cinder King" with a Master Cinderheart from a partial transformation, a technique discovered by - and granted him by - those Scadrians he hadn't met yet)?

They would have saved him if they knew he was out there. He may have been a messenger. We do not know whether the Cosmere has an artificial ansible. Sending people through Shadesmar may be an option.

[AquaRegia he/him]

I hope this doesn't count as a necrotopic, as I just finished TSM yesterday and have thoughts about these interesting observations.

On 10/2/2023 at 9:14 AM, therunner said:

Regarding Deadeyes, where did you take that from?
Implication from Scadrians that Rosharan mercenaries can carry Blade and be un-Oathed?

On 10/2/2023 at 9:23 AM, robardin said:

Ah, I see, maybe that is what the OP meant about "deadeyes still exist" - the implication that people expect a Rosharan with a Blade and gallivanting around the Cosmere to be a mercenary.

I do not recall this being implied.  First, the Scadrians asked Nomad whether he had sworn Oaths; he lied and said "no", which they seemed to accept.  Only THEN did they assume he was a mercenary.  When he later revealed his Blade, they (correctly) accused him of lying about being Oathed, NOT of having a deadeye blade.  Everything about the interaction seems consistent with the Scadrians assuming two separate types of Rosharans:  Knights Radiant (tread very carefully!) and mercenaries (potentially valuable employees).  Seems to me that the implications are

1). These Scadrians are reasonably well aware of the nature of Knights Radiant

and, separately,

2). Some number of non-Radiant Rosharans have spread out into the Cosmere as mercenaries, which, given the relative dominance of Alethi-style military tradition and training highlighted all through this novel, makes a fair degree of sense.  A small, well-trained cadre of Alethi spearmen could, like the 300, be a dominant force in a culture with lesser experience in combat.

I don't think we should draw any sweeping conclusions specifically about deadeyes from TSM.

[Deathfuzz]

On 10/29/2023 at 12:59 PM, AquaRegia said:

First, the Scadrians asked Nomad whether he had sworn Oaths; he lied and said "no", which they seemed to accept.  Only THEN did they assume he was a mercenary.  When he later revealed his Blade, they (correctly) accused him of lying about being Oathed

The shard plate pieces appearing is what gave him away. They seemed fine with him having a blade but no oaths when he was let in.