Trusk'our he/him Posted April 10, 2023 Posted April 10, 2023 Forgery can only allow something reasonable to be changed about someone's past to create a different present version of oneself. Hemalurgy can take pieces of people's Spiritwebs, their Connection and Identity, and staple it on to someone else. So, could you take a part of someone's Spiritweb, give yourself the spike, and then use a Soulstamp on yourself that would have worked on the other person? For example, could a Scadrien Hemalurgist spike something out of Moonlight, give themselves the spike, then take her Elantrian-making Soulstamp and use it one themselves?
Duxredux he/him Posted April 11, 2023 Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) @Trusk'our, my guess is that using Hemalurgy will only partially improve the viability of Forgery. Only a portion of the soul is transferred with Hemalurgy and the existing Identity of the Hemalurgist will conflict with the Forgery. It may get close like how Gaotona could be changed in completely implausible ways (like remembering a brother when he never had one) by stamps crafted for Ashravan based on the familiarity principle, but if it took at all I expect to have a greatly diminished duration. How dissimilar the Hemalurgist to the target would probably also increase interference, such as the Sel to Sel vs. Sel to Scadrian vs. Sel human to Parshendi. Even if the Essence Mark only took for 1 to 15 minutes for Shai's 26-hour Marks, if you had someone standing by with the stamp you might be able to pull off some impressive stunts. If you could remember what you were doing after getting stamped that is. Edited April 11, 2023 by Duxredux Added thought 1
therunner he/him Posted April 11, 2023 Posted April 11, 2023 Probably not, Hemalurgy takes only relatively small portions of the spiritweb, with some left over Identity and Connection. However, even when you spike yourself, you still remain yourself with all of your Identity and Connections, with the Hemalurgic bit allowing you only small things (e.g. use metalminds of donor Feruchemist), and not much else (e.g. you won't suddenly be able to speak Terris, or start acting a bit like that person). And since Forgery is extremely reliant on precise knowledge of the object/person you want to stamp (see Emperor's soul and how long it takes to prepare soulstamp for a person), I don't think you could use the stamp on yourself, the spiritweb is too different. Basically, unless you somehow replace your entire spiritweb (at which point you would cease to be you) you would not be able to use such Soulstamp. However, there are now Universal soulstamps (though seemingly only for objects at the moment), so if there is a sliding scale of 'universality' of soulstamp, then perhaps some soulstamps that were intended for specific person, but high enough on universality scale could be used by someone with a spike.
alder24 Posted April 11, 2023 Posted April 11, 2023 13 hours ago, Trusk'our said: Forgery can only allow something reasonable to be changed about someone's past to create a different present version of oneself. Hemalurgy can take pieces of people's Spiritwebs, their Connection and Identity, and staple it on to someone else. So, could you take a part of someone's Spiritweb, give yourself the spike, and then use a Soulstamp on yourself that would have worked on the other person? For example, could a Scadrien Hemalurgist spike something out of Moonlight, give themselves the spike, then take her Elantrian-making Soulstamp and use it one themselves? I don't think so, like therunner said, your identity and connections are still the same. You only get a small piece of someone's soul, the best that could happen is give you a few minutes with his Soulstapms, but they won't work. Like with Gaotona, who tested Soulstamps for the emperor because he knew him well and had strong connection to him, the closer the stamps get to true emperor, the longer they stayed on Gaotona, but still at best they lasted only few minutes, similar thing would happen here - you get only few minutes with his Soulstamps. But it would work the other way around, if you spiked someone who uses a Soulstamp in that moment. Like if Moonlight uses her Soulstamp and becomes an Elantrian, you can spike Elantrianees out of her and give it to yourself instead via spike. Forger working with Hemalurgist can achieve so much more. You have a Misting as a donor? Forger will make a Soulstamp making him into full Mistborn and you can spike what you want out of him. Spoiler Questioner If you Stamp yourself, to have another, overwritten spiritweb, and you get Spiked-- *laughter* What would happen? Brandon Sanderson We actually worked this out. *laughter* Questioner Well, you'd die, or very close to it, but would it revert when the Stamp reverts? Brandon Sanderson So what’s probably going to happen here is that you’re going to rip off the Investiture you’ve put on your soul, and your own soul will have less damage. Now, the spike is only gonna get the-- the spike, you're like "What will it do?" It will do what you've been overwritten with, but again remember, becoming an Allomancer takes so much energy, and things like-- But it is theoretically possible in the cosmere to rewrite yourself "You're an allomancer", someone spikes you to get this. The Investiture doesn't care that it was fake on you, you have managed to get that Investiture to work. Uhh, this is really tough. And really, like, you need Connection, and you need, like, the right kind of Investiture, but then it rips off and yes you have made a spike that makes you an Allomancer, even though the person was a Forger. So yes, okay? But this is the kind of stuff that is like the thought experiments for physicists in the cosmere as opposed to, y'know-- Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) 1
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