Why do Shards need mortals to work for them?

[Trusk'our he/him]

Why would a Shard such as Ruin or Odium need humans, singers, or other beings working for them? Wouldn't that just take up precious investiture that could be used by the shard to defeat their opposing shard? If Odium really wanted to be the only shard out there, as seems to be his goal, why doesn't he just target the other shards, kill them, and ignore the mortals who really can't do much to him if he chooses not to interact with them?

[cometaryorbit]

All Shards are - at least originally - equal in power. And direct conflict between two Shards at least can be fatal to both (as seen in Hero of Ages - though this result might be due to Ruin and Preservation being directly opposed).

Ruin and Preservation made a deal which allowed Ruin to eventually destroy Scadrial; Preservation broke that deal, stole some of Ruin's power, and imprisoned Ruin in the Well. So Ruin (since he was imprisoned) needed a human agent to free him at the Well of Ascension, and then again to find the atium that contained his stolen power (since he was blinded by the 'light' of metal, just as Kelsier was in Mistborn: Secret History). Preservation needed someone to take up his power so that they could kill Ati/Ruin - Leras/Preservation was too thoroughly shaped by his Shard, and couldn't destroy someone else, even to preserve a whole world.

Odium's case is less clear, since that story isn't finished. But given that Odium has attacked two planets with two Shards - Sel (Devotion + Dominion) and Roshar (Honor + Cultivation) it does seem clear that a direct contest of power wouldn't work in his favor.

[Chinkoln he/him]

Brandon has confirmed that Odium has been weakened by his previous encounters with Shards. Between killing Ambition, Devotion, Dominon, and Honor, he isn’t strong enough anymore. He would need to have a preexisting upper hand before he could engage in another battle.

When he killed before, he did have an upper hand which allowed him to win, but not without cost. When fighting Ambition, Mercy was there to help him. He pitted Devotion and Dominion against each other, then stepped back and let them do it. With Honor however he just went straight in, and so even though the nature of his Shard let him win, he was very badly damaged and bound by Honor.

[Trusk'our he/him]

4 hours ago, Chinkoln said:

Brandon has confirmed that Odium has been weakened by his previous encounters with Shards. Between killing Ambition, Devotion, Dominon, and Honor, he isn’t strong enough anymore. He would need to have a preexisting upper hand before he could engage in another battle.

When he killed before, he did have an upper hand which allowed him to win, but not without cost. When fighting Ambition, Mercy was there to help him. He pitted Devotion and Dominion against each other, then stepped back and let them do it. With Honor however he just went straight in, and so even though the nature of his Shard let him win, he was very badly damaged and bound by Honor.

That doesn't explain why he would need mortals to do his dirty work for him, as they certainly wouldn't be able to hurt a shard badly enough to become a major advantage for him. I don't count the use of Nightblood because he didn't know of its existence until very recently. 

[Zapata]

2 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

That doesn't explain why he would need mortals to do his dirty work for him, as they certainly wouldn't be able to hurt a shard badly enough to become a major advantage for him. I don't count the use of Nightblood because he didn't know of its existence until very recently. 

He still needs to make the remnants of Honor (Dalinar/Stormfather) release him from Braize, though. He can influence Roshar, but currently he cannot do too much with it himself. As for why he wants Roshar to be his army, that is probably because he is weakened by his encounters with the other Shards. If he can make the other Shards focus on protecting their physical planets from powerful invaders, then he can try to surprise the Shards with a direct attack rather than engaging in a drawn-out fight he is not sure to win.

[cometaryorbit]

8 hours ago, Chinkoln said:

When he killed before, he did have an upper hand which allowed him to win, but not without cost. When fighting Ambition, Mercy was there to help him. He pitted Devotion and Dominion against each other, then stepped back and let them do it.

Wait, is either of those confirmed? I thought we didn't know which side Mercy fought on (helping Ambition, helping Odium, or trying to stop the fight/protect mortals without directly helping either side) or what exactly was done on Sel (the Devotion/Dominion fighting thing I think is a very plausible theory but unconfirmed).

[Trusk'our he/him]

11 hours ago, Zapata said:

He still needs to make the remnants of Honor (Dalinar/Stormfather) release him from Braize, though. He can influence Roshar, but currently he cannot do too much with it himself. As for why he wants Roshar to be his army, that is probably because he is weakened by his encounters with the other Shards. If he can make the other Shards focus on protecting their physical planets from powerful invaders, then he can try to surprise the Shards with a direct attack rather than engaging in a drawn-out fight he is not sure to win.

Ah, that would make a lot of sense.

[apepi]

I don't think Odium likes to use much of his investiture unlike other shards that we have seen before, he always seems to convert/corrupt other shard's investiture than actually use his own. Like the only use of his power alone has been what, his own metal? I am not sure we have seen anything that has not been spliced with another's investiture somehow.

 

On 12/28/2021 at 6:45 AM, Chinkoln said:

Brandon has confirmed that Odium has been weakened by his previous encounters with Shards. Between killing Ambition, Devotion, Dominon, and Honor, he isn’t strong enough anymore. He would need to have a preexisting upper hand before he could engage in another battle.

When he killed before, he did have an upper hand which allowed him to win, but not without cost. When fighting Ambition, Mercy was there to help him. He pitted Devotion and Dominion against each other, then stepped back and let them do it. With Honor however he just went straight in, and so even though the nature of his Shard let him win, he was
I feel like Honor somehow broke some deal, which caused him to die/be easily killed.very badly damaged and bound by Honor.

I feel like it wasn't just going straight in killing Honor, I feel like Honor broke a deal which caused him to be weak.