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I'm thinking we should vote off Danex this round. Seeing as we failed to do so in the last game, of course :P. I'm also now wondering how an old grouch can possibly convince people that he's not a member of the Heritage Faction while simultaneously deriding all of the ostentation of the Glory Faction.

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8 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I'm thinking we should vote off Danex this round. Seeing as we failed to do so in the last game, of course :P. I'm also now wondering how an old grouch can possibly convince people that he's not a member of the Heritage Faction while simultaneously deriding all of the ostentation of the Glory Faction.

He’s just very averse to the idea of heritage dictating what people do. However, he thinks the glory faction are just as power hungry as the Heritage faction, and so he hates them all but mostly Heritage so he’s forced to become a member of the glory faction or learn forgery.

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2 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

"Ah, so it's a case of mistaken identity then, mate? Fine by me."

Ill sighed, inwardly shaking her head. These people of the rose empire were so boring Where was the meaningful discussion? “Apologies, [insert honorific]. I meant no insult. Thank you for contributing to the discussion.” She smiled graciously, adjusting her long pale blue skirt slightly. “In other matters, I propose we attempt to call on people to explain their loyalty to our faction. And if we disagree, it’s majority rules. If they seem disloyal, we throw them out. That, or we kill them.” Her smile carefully towned down, showing sadness and grief. “I want us all to live. But if we cant, it may as well be the traitors who leave this realm.”

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Anylasis of the Rules:

  • Combined 48 hour cycles.
  • There will be an execution each cycle, with no vote minimum. Tied votes will be decided by RNG.
  • PMs are open. They must be 1-1 and include both the GM and IM.
  • Each player is allotted one action per cycle.

Nothing unusual here, the only real thing of note is that PMs are open. Go wild.

Factions:

The Glory Faction:

  • Standard village faction.
  • The Glory Faction wins when all members of the Heritage Faction, and the Soul Forger, are dead.

The Heritage Faction:

  • Standard eliminator faction.
  • Has a kill each cycle, which counts as an action.
  • The Heritage Faction wins when they outnumber the Glory Faction, and the Soul Forger is dead.

Nothing unusual, both need to kill the soul forger.

The Soul Forger:

  • Neutral faction and role.
  • The Soul Forger wins when all members of the Glory Faction and the Heritage Faction are dead.

An SK, which seems to normally be quite rare in SE, so we'll see how it goes.

Soul Forger:

  • The Soul Forger has a Soulstamp, three Essence Marks, and the Engraved Plates to finish each of the Essence Marks.
  • The Soul Forger starts with either the Grand or the Urchin already complete.

This means that they either get an automatic double life or vote. I would guess double life as that is far more beneficial to a SK, but I would like to see other people's thoughts. 

  • The Soul Forger may submit an action to complete a Mark and unlock its ability, which takes two cycles (but only one action). Only one Essence Mark may be created at a time, and the Urchin only once.

This means a Forger could theoretically cancel their action to make a different Mark, but i doubt that will gain any use. If they start with the Urchin, that likely means they get two extra lives. @Matrim's Dice, is that true? In that hypothetical scenario of course. 

  • Essence Marks:
    • The Urchin:
      • The Soul Forger will passively survive a single attack.

Already talked about a little, could be very strong is good for their survival.

    • The Grand:
      • The Soul Forger may use an action to double their vote for the cycle.
      • Gains a piece of art.

Not super useful, but there are scenarios. 

    • The Warrior:
      • The Soul Forger may kill one player each cycle.

Very useful, likely instrumental to their success

  • The Essence Mark creation does not count towards the single action allotted per cycle.

That's a big buff and could be very helpful to them.

  • The Soul Forger will only be included with a player count of 13 or more.

We have them, so this is mute.

Faction-Specific Roles:

Emperor:

  • Each cycle, the Emperor can redirect someone’s action randomly to a new target.
  • Starts with a piece of art.

Pretty standard action redirecter, although it is random.

Head Arbiter of the Glory Faction:

  • Each cycle, the Head Arbiter of the Glory Faction may move the vote of any player. This action cannot change a no-vote to a vote, nor a vote to a no-vote.
  • Starts with a piece of art.

Vote mover. Nothing super special, just that it can't add or take away votes.

Head Arbiter of the Heritage Faction:

  • Each cycle, the Head Arbiter of the Heritage Faction may cancel any player’s vote.
  • Starts with a piece of art.

Vote canceler, once again, nothing special.

It is worth noting that all of these start with a piece of art.

Non-Faction Specific Roles:

Bloodsealer:

  • The Bloodsealer can use an action to create a Skeletal. They can then use another action (in a future cycle) to use the Skeletal, roleblocking a player’s action. If they are unsuccessful (i.e. their target took no action) the Skeletal is retained.

Decent role, I would say that this is definitely more useful for the village. The retaining of the Skeletal is definitely useful for them. Also, I would like to start a petition for renaming skeletal roleblocking to skeleifying a person.

Striker:

  • Strikers have access to a kill they may use three times per game.

Decently strong vigilante. Fire wisely. 

Rememberer:

  • Each cycle Rememberers have a 50% chance to receive an order to Forge a piece of art, which they may turn into any of the three types.
  • The Rememberer cannot use these pieces, but can send them to other players. This does not use an action.
  • If the Rememberer receives art from another source, they are free to use it. Passing art from other sources requires an action.

Not sure about this role, but I would certainly appreciate any art you create!

Art:

All art is passable between players. This requires an action.

  • Vase:
    • Can be used to attempt to roleblock a player’s action.

Not super powerful. We'll see how many of these there will be.

  • Painting:
    • Can be used to attempt to protect against a single attack.

Useful, but not the end all be all.

  • Scepter:
    • Can be used to attempt to kill a single player.

Pretty powerful, there are going to be a lot of kills flying around this game.

OoA:

  1. Skeletal Usage/Vase
  2. Emperor
  3. Head Arbiters/Grand
  4. Rememberer
  5. Execution
  6. Painting
  7. Eliminator kill/Striker/Warrior/Scepter
  8. Skeletal Creation
  9. Art passing

Nothing special that I can see.

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....dang it. 
Serial Killer, I have my eyes on you! 
Fair warning about my activity level: don't expect me to be super active, I'm still juggling school and whatnot. But I'll try to get on at least once a day. I have to get some homework done right now, so I'll take a look at the rules later. 

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11 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

We have them, so this is mute.

It's spelled moot. Mute is silent, unable to talk, etc.

13 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

I would like to start a petition for renaming skeletal roleblocking to skeleifying a person.

*agrees with many much yessnessess*


I'm sad now. I got a sad role. And am on a sad team. *feels sad*

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15 minutes ago, Tani said:

It's spelled moot. Mute is silent, unable to talk, etc.

*agrees with many much yessnessess*


I'm sad now. I got a sad role. And am on a sad team. *feels sad*

Tani. Stating that they’re a villager and appealing for sympathy for doing so raises my hackles enough for a D1 lynch vote.

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10 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Tani. Stating that they’re a villager and appealing for sympathy for doing so raises my hackles enough for a D1 lynch vote.

Although I sort of agree with this, they did also do the same thing last game and were NKd and flipped village. First time I’ve seen anyone bring this up, though, and it’s an interesting point.

Edited by ashwastaken
‘Was NKd as village’ to ‘were NKd and flipped village’ just for clarity
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5 minutes ago, ashwastaken said:

Although I sort of agree with this, they did also do the same thing last game and were NKd and flipped village. First time I’ve seen anyone bring this up, though, and it’s an interesting point.

That’s good to know, and probably means it’s not alignment indicative, although I’d like to hear from @Tani themselves before I retract my vote.

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58 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

If they start with the Urchin, that likely means they get two extra lives. @Matrim's Dice, is that true? In that hypothetical scenario of course.

Starting with the Urchin would count as the single Urchin use they get. Poor wording on my part.

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  • Elandera locked and unpinned this topic

Rules analysis:

Emperor: 
With the plentiful ways that all of us will be able to be harming one another, a redirect action, however random, will be very influential.

Head Arbiter of the Glory Faction:
And lo, the Vote manipulation began. By putting another vote on someone we have determined to be an elim, we have a useful tool for us to be able to protect a lynch from being manipulated by the ever vile...

Head Arbiter of the Heritage Faction:
Booooooooo. A way for votes to be removed while we're trying to lynch an eliminator. Though it will be telling, if a vote disappears, so keep your eye out!

Soul Forger:
*sigh* As much as I would love for the SK to be the village's friend, I am aware that their commiting murder will likely cause us a lot of pain in the long run. But luckily enough, we get at least 2 cycle reprieve from murder after murder after murder. Or at least..that would be the goal..but alas...

Rememberer:
We have to deal with remembers, who will, every cycle, have a 50% chance to give any player the ability to commit murder. And there's no confirmation that they'll even give that ability to a village. Yes, I understand that a rememberer can make things other than scepters, I'll go over the art later. But for now, I do not want to have to deal with an upwards of four deaths in a single game. Okay? There better not be any more ways to commit murde-

Striker:
...you kidding me? More ways to commit murder? Gah! Strikers, my friends, no? Don't. At least not today, don't kill anyone. Apart from no information at all, and the odds not being in your favor at all, I don't want to die, and with scepters, and forgers, and now you? I'm scared........ah storms one of you could be in the Elims, it's possible, isn't it.

Bloodsealer:
Finally! Roleblocks. I'm even more happy about at least one of these existing than the emperor. First of all, you know if your target took an action or not. Second of all, you prevent this game from going....too crazy!

Let's see...anything else to discuss? Ah, the Art. I hope no one here touches the scepters, murder = bad. Vases are great! Roleblock everyone! Literally. If we roleblock everyone forever, things will go well. And paintings. I'm good with paintings. Less so than the vases, because they'll have a lot less versatility. But if you think you are going to die, and you don't know who, I guess maybe a painting would be helpful. I'm pretty sure paintings aren't passive either, so..yeah.

Anyways, last thing, if you want to talk to me in PMs, then you PM me. I'm not touching those on my own.


Sha Lou yawned, looking around the stuffy room of grands. Of which...she was a part of, she supposed. Strange. It'd been months now, wearing the robes, guiding the emperor, not really caring about the history. Just living life and eating good food. Glancing around, she watched as a couple of clumsy people stumbled into each other, tripping over the uselessly flamboyant robes and tumbling to the floor. Sha actually snorted at the sight, these noble, glorious guides of all of politics, making a general mess of things. Almost poetic, she supposed. "Ey!" Sha shouted, pointing at some random person she'd never seen before ( @Mage Mage ). "You, eh...person! Yeh, who'r ya!" Her job done for the day, she yawned again, slumped back in her seat to hide from everyone else, and got ready for a boring day.

 
Edited by Ed Venture
What happened with the formatting??
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5 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

That’s good to know, and probably means it’s not alignment indicative, although I’d like to hear from @Tani themselves before I retract my vote.

orlok, you're playing this game? Nice to see ya, haven't played with you since well before 2 years ago. 
I finished my coding project (cheers and huzzahs!) so now I should be more clear in the next 24 hours or so to take a look at the rules and get my bearings. 

Ok I skimmed the rules and I have a question. Does the emperor know who they redirect to? @Matrim's Dice

Edited by Steeldancer
Rule question
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30 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Ok I skimmed the rules and I have a question. Does the emperor know who they redirect to? @Matrim's Dice

They are not told who they redirect to, nor who the action's original target was. Just if they were successful in redirecting.

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6 hours ago, The Unknown Order said:

Not sure about this role, but I would certainly appreciate any art you create!

Rememberers are a less powerful Striker, especially since there will probably be few enough cycles for Strikers to use their abilities at every opportunity. I would not count on there being enough Rememberers for the Emperor and Glory Arbiter to keep each other safe if they claimed. I would expect the elims to have some way to roleblock/kill in addition to their normal kill.

2 hours ago, Ed Venture said:

I'm scared........ah storms one of you could be in the Elims, it's possible, isn't it.

Village ways of killing will be more accurate than nonvillage ways, and the game will likely be short enough that hoarding kill powers will be unhelpful.

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5 hours ago, Ed Venture said:

Sha Lou yawned, looking around the stuffy room of grands. Of which...she was a part of, she supposed. Strange. It'd been months now, wearing the robes, guiding the emperor, not really caring about the history. Just living life and eating good food. Glancing around, she watched as a couple of clumsy people stumbled into each other, tripping over the uselessly flamboyant robes and tumbling to the floor. Sha actually snorted at the sight, these noble, glorious guides of all of politics, making a general mess of things. Almost poetic, she supposed. "Ey!" Sha shouted, pointing at some random person she'd never seen before ( @Mage Mage ). "You, eh...person! Yeh, who'r ya!" Her job done for the day, she yawned again, slumped back in her seat to hide from everyone else, and got ready for a boring day.

  Reveal hidden contents
  Reveal hidden contents
 

“Me?” Gaivon said, looking up from the ledgers he was pouring over. Glory faction finances were doing fine, but the effects of the Heritage faction’s plotting could certainly be seen, “I’m the administrator of finance. Who are you? Your accent doesn’t sound from around here?”

Ed Venture *return poke*

Edited by Mage
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11 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

I'm thinking we should vote off Danex this round. Seeing as we failed to do so in the last game, of course

Man, Mat makes me vanilla village, you hit me with a stab vote, y'all really just want to get back at me for 81 don'tcha? :P

well, I see your stab vote, and I'll raise you the newly invented mega-ultra-better-than-a normal-stab-vote Sword vote.
a poke vote is a vote on a random person D1
a stab vote is a poke vote on a person that lasts the entirety of D1
sword vote is a stab vote that lasts entire games via multiple D1s

therefore
TJ
:P

Edited by Danex
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15 hours ago, ashwastaken said:

Oooh wow. Second game. I’m not nervous. duh.

Ialmai looked around, unsteady. She wasn’t sure wether or not something could kill honorspren other than broken oaths, but the people around her didn’t know what honorspren really were, and if anything could kill her it would be the investiture that they were so hap-hazardly throwing around. She kept on walking, keeping her head up as though she were the queen of this place, although all she really wanted to do was hide in a corner with her head down. What had she gotten into? She should have just stayed on Roshar, even with those terrible red spren and the terrible broken oaths that had killed her siblings. She’d escaped, but now she was probably going to die anyways. 

She turned to the first person she saw, folding her arms. “Lai (TJ),” she said, nodding her head “do you mind telling all of us why you aren’t a part of the heritage faction? Of course, you shouldn’t be. All the heritage faction does is spread lies about our past and squander power they don’t deserve. Now they spread lies about who they are. So just tell me, why wouldn’t you be one of them?” She unfolded her arms, smiling as though she hadn’t a fear in the world. “Don’t worry though. I do trust you. I just need some genuine discussion going on here. Speaking of which, how many of the heritage faction do you reckon are here?”

@|TJ| , I poke you!

 

haha welcome to ‘ash attempts to rp’ this time we have ‘let’s try not to get lynched agin’ also my rp charecter is named Ialmai, Ill for short, and she’s an honorspren who escaped roshar and started to wander the cosmere.

Formatted for clarity.

I'm (obviously) not TJ, but in the absence of his response thought I'd engage with your discussion prompt.

I'm unfamiliar with the new meta on this site, and so don't know current thinking on best practice for distribution with low player numbers. That said, we used to say 20-25%, or the square root of player numbers as a good rule of thumb for elim numbers. These give 2.6, 3.25, and 3.6 respectively. I think, as such, three eliminators is not unlikely.

I recall QFs and MRs traditionally have a much higher eliminator win rate than LGs, which I always attributed to a lack of time for analysis - I would be inclined to suggest that lower player numbers will only heighten this trend. Were I GMing, I'd be looking at either a lower end eliminator team numbers wise, or a higher prevalence of protection items across the village to lengthen the game.

This is exacerbated by the Soul Forger:

Quote
  • The Soul Forger has a Soulstamp, three Essence Marks, and the Engraved Plates to finish each of the Essence Marks.
  • The Soul Forger starts with either the Grand or the Urchin already complete.
  • The Soul Forger may submit an action to complete a Mark and unlock its ability, which takes two cycles (but only one action). Only one Essence Mark may be created at a time, and the Urchin only once.
    • Essence Marks:
      • The Warrior:
        • The Soul Forger may kill one player each cycle.
      • The Grand:
        • The Soul Forger may use an action to double their vote for the cycle.
        • Gains a piece of art.
      • The Urchin:
        • The Soul Forger will passively survive a single attack.
  • The Essence Mark creation does not count towards the single action allotted per cycle.
  • The Soul Forger will only be included with a player count of 13 or more.

 If my reading of the rules is correct, we will start seeing at least two kills a cycle from cycle 3 onwards - I can see no reason why the Soul Forger would do anything other than begin creation of the Warrior essence mark immediately. 

That said, I think the Soul Forger is greatly incentivised to take out eliminators, rather than villagers. If we mislynch this cycle and next, with two unprotected eliminator kills, we could be looking at 5 villagers to three eliminators and a serial killer going into cycle three - and the eliminators have vote manipulation. 

14 hours ago, The Unknown Order said:

Anylasis of the Rules:

  Reveal hidden contents
  • Combined 48 hour cycles.
  • There will be an execution each cycle, with no vote minimum. Tied votes will be decided by RNG.
  • PMs are open. They must be 1-1 and include both the GM and IM.
  • Each player is allotted one action per cycle.

Nothing unusual here, the only real thing of note is that PMs are open. Go wild.

Factions:

  Reveal hidden contents

The Glory Faction:

  • Standard village faction.
  • The Glory Faction wins when all members of the Heritage Faction, and the Soul Forger, are dead.

The Heritage Faction:

  • Standard eliminator faction.
  • Has a kill each cycle, which counts as an action.
  • The Heritage Faction wins when they outnumber the Glory Faction, and the Soul Forger is dead.

Nothing unusual, both need to kill the soul forger.

The Soul Forger:

  • Neutral faction and role.
  • The Soul Forger wins when all members of the Glory Faction and the Heritage Faction are dead.

An SK, which seems to normally be quite rare in SE, so we'll see how it goes.

Soul Forger:

  Reveal hidden contents
  • The Soul Forger has a Soulstamp, three Essence Marks, and the Engraved Plates to finish each of the Essence Marks.
  • The Soul Forger starts with either the Grand or the Urchin already complete.

This means that they either get an automatic double life or vote. I would guess double life as that is far more beneficial to a SK, but I would like to see other people's thoughts. 

  • The Soul Forger may submit an action to complete a Mark and unlock its ability, which takes two cycles (but only one action). Only one Essence Mark may be created at a time, and the Urchin only once.

This means a Forger could theoretically cancel their action to make a different Mark, but i doubt that will gain any use. If they start with the Urchin, that likely means they get two extra lives. @Matrim's Dice, is that true? In that hypothetical scenario of course. 

  • Essence Marks:
    • The Urchin:
      • The Soul Forger will passively survive a single attack.

Already talked about a little, could be very strong is good for their survival.

    • The Grand:
      • The Soul Forger may use an action to double their vote for the cycle.
      • Gains a piece of art.

Not super useful, but there are scenarios. 

    • The Warrior:
      • The Soul Forger may kill one player each cycle.

Very useful, likely instrumental to their success

  • The Essence Mark creation does not count towards the single action allotted per cycle.

That's a big buff and could be very helpful to them.

  • The Soul Forger will only be included with a player count of 13 or more.

We have them, so this is mute.

Faction-Specific Roles:

  Reveal hidden contents

Emperor:

  • Each cycle, the Emperor can redirect someone’s action randomly to a new target.
  • Starts with a piece of art.

Pretty standard action redirecter, although it is random.

Head Arbiter of the Glory Faction:

  • Each cycle, the Head Arbiter of the Glory Faction may move the vote of any player. This action cannot change a no-vote to a vote, nor a vote to a no-vote.
  • Starts with a piece of art.

Vote mover. Nothing super special, just that it can't add or take away votes.

Head Arbiter of the Heritage Faction:

  • Each cycle, the Head Arbiter of the Heritage Faction may cancel any player’s vote.
  • Starts with a piece of art.

Vote canceler, once again, nothing special.

It is worth noting that all of these start with a piece of art.

Non-Faction Specific Roles:

  Reveal hidden contents

Bloodsealer:

  • The Bloodsealer can use an action to create a Skeletal. They can then use another action (in a future cycle) to use the Skeletal, roleblocking a player’s action. If they are unsuccessful (i.e. their target took no action) the Skeletal is retained.

Decent role, I would say that this is definitely more useful for the village. The retaining of the Skeletal is definitely useful for them. Also, I would like to start a petition for renaming skeletal roleblocking to skeleifying a person.

Striker:

  • Strikers have access to a kill they may use three times per game.

Decently strong vigilante. Fire wisely. 

Rememberer:

  • Each cycle Rememberers have a 50% chance to receive an order to Forge a piece of art, which they may turn into any of the three types.
  • The Rememberer cannot use these pieces, but can send them to other players. This does not use an action.
  • If the Rememberer receives art from another source, they are free to use it. Passing art from other sources requires an action.

Not sure about this role, but I would certainly appreciate any art you create!

Art:

  Reveal hidden contents

All art is passable between players. This requires an action.

  • Vase:
    • Can be used to attempt to roleblock a player’s action.

Not super powerful. We'll see how many of these there will be.

  • Painting:
    • Can be used to attempt to protect against a single attack.

Useful, but not the end all be all.

  • Scepter:
    • Can be used to attempt to kill a single player.

Pretty powerful, there are going to be a lot of kills flying around this game.

OoA:

  Reveal hidden contents
  1. Skeletal Usage/Vase
  2. Emperor
  3. Head Arbiters/Grand
  4. Rememberer
  5. Execution
  6. Painting
  7. Eliminator kill/Striker/Warrior/Scepter
  8. Skeletal Creation
  9. Art passing

Nothing special that I can see.

This hasn't multiquoted properly, so I'll break down the parts I want to comment on with quotes myself (Unknown Order's comments in bold)

Quote
  • Combined 48 hour cycles.
  • There will be an execution each cycle, with no vote minimum. Tied votes will be decided by RNG.
  • PMs are open. They must be 1-1 and include both the GM and IM.
  • Each player is allotted one action per cycle.

Nothing unusual here, the only real thing of note is that PMs are open. Go wild.

Quote

The Glory Faction:

  • Standard village faction.
  • The Glory Faction wins when all members of the Heritage Faction, and the Soul Forger, are dead.

The Heritage Faction:

  • Standard eliminator faction.
  • Has a kill each cycle, which counts as an action.
  • The Heritage Faction wins when they outnumber the Glory Faction, and the Soul Forger is dead.

Nothing unusual, both need to kill the soul forger.

The Soul Forger:

  • Neutral faction and role.
  • The Soul Forger wins when all members of the Glory Faction and the Heritage Faction are dead.

An SK, which seems to normally be quite rare in SE, so we'll see how it goes.

Not an awful lot said in the analysis thus far. Of interest to me, however, is the absence of comments on lynch thresholds and ties. The rules are explicit that the eliminators have a vote canceller, which (until they're killed) means that tied lynches ought only to result in a village death.  

Quote
  • The Soul Forger has a Soulstamp, three Essence Marks, and the Engraved Plates to finish each of the Essence Marks.
  • The Soul Forger starts with either the Grand or the Urchin already complete.

This means that they either get an automatic double life or vote. I would guess double life as that is far more beneficial to a SK, but I would like to see other people's thoughts. 

  • The Soul Forger may submit an action to complete a Mark and unlock its ability, which takes two cycles (but only one action). Only one Essence Mark may be created at a time, and the Urchin only once.

This means a Forger could theoretically cancel their action to make a different Mark, but i doubt that will gain any use. If they start with the Urchin, that likely means they get two extra lives. @Matrim's Dice, is that true? In that hypothetical scenario of course. 

  • Essence Marks:
    • The Urchin:
      • The Soul Forger will passively survive a single attack.

Already talked about a little, could be very strong is good for their survival.

    • The Grand:
      • The Soul Forger may use an action to double their vote for the cycle.
      • Gains a piece of art.

Not super useful, but there are scenarios. 

    • The Warrior:
      • The Soul Forger may kill one player each cycle.

Very useful, likely instrumental to their success

  • The Essence Mark creation does not count towards the single action allotted per cycle.

That's a big buff and could be very helpful to them.

  • The Soul Forger will only be included with a player count of 13 or more.

We have them, so this is mute.

Fairly surface level analysis here. The assertion that the Serial Killer would start with a double life is interesting, though. @The Unknown Order you rightly identify that this would make them stronger, which you argue as a reason for them to start with it. I'd be curious to hear why you think strengthening the Soul Forger is necessary, and your thoughts on the implications for game balance?

Quote

Emperor:

  • Each cycle, the Emperor can redirect someone’s action randomly to a new target.
  • Starts with a piece of art.

Pretty standard action redirecter, although it is random.

Head Arbiter of the Glory Faction:

  • Each cycle, the Head Arbiter of the Glory Faction may move the vote of any player. This action cannot change a no-vote to a vote, nor a vote to a no-vote.
  • Starts with a piece of art.

Vote mover. Nothing super special, just that it can't add or take away votes.

Head Arbiter of the Heritage Faction:

  • Each cycle, the Head Arbiter of the Heritage Faction may cancel any player’s vote.
  • Starts with a piece of art.

Vote canceler, once again, nothing special.

It is worth noting that all of these start with a piece of art.

It interests me that you consistently use language saying things are standard, even when you go on to acknowledge they're not - "although it is random". To me, it reads that you're trying to give the impression of analysing, without doing so.

You further also downplay the importance of the vote canceller for the eliminators. I don't think we should underestimate this for a moment, given it ensures the village lose every tie, and lylo can appear a cycle earlier.

I'm not going to quote the rest of your post - I think there's enough so far for me to retract on Tani and vote on The Unknown Order.

11 hours ago, Tani said:

@Orlok Tsubodai Lately I've just been really wanting to be Elim. And I said so in last game's dead doc.

Also, I like your username. It has a fun feel to it.

That may well be the case, but announcing to the thread your disappointment feels performative to me, and so raises my suspicions.

10 hours ago, Ed Venture said:

Rules analysis:

Emperor: 
With the plentiful ways that all of us will be able to be harming one another, a redirect action, however random, will be very influential.

Head Arbiter of the Glory Faction:
And lo, the Vote manipulation began. By putting another vote on someone we have determined to be an elim, we have a useful tool for us to be able to protect a lynch from being manipulated by the ever vile...

Head Arbiter of the Heritage Faction:
Booooooooo. A way for votes to be removed while we're trying to lynch an eliminator. Though it will be telling, if a vote disappears, so keep your eye out!

Soul Forger:
*sigh* As much as I would love for the SK to be the village's friend, I am aware that their commiting murder will likely cause us a lot of pain in the long run. But luckily enough, we get at least 2 cycle reprieve from murder after murder after murder. Or at least..that would be the goal..but alas...

Rememberer:
We have to deal with remembers, who will, every cycle, have a 50% chance to give any player the ability to commit murder. And there's no confirmation that they'll even give that ability to a village. Yes, I understand that a rememberer can make things other than scepters, I'll go over the art later. But for now, I do not want to have to deal with an upwards of four deaths in a single game. Okay? There better not be any more ways to commit murde-

Striker:
...you kidding me? More ways to commit murder? Gah! Strikers, my friends, no? Don't. At least not today, don't kill anyone. Apart from no information at all, and the odds not being in your favor at all, I don't want to die, and with scepters, and forgers, and now you? I'm scared........ah storms one of you could be in the Elims, it's possible, isn't it.

Bloodsealer:
Finally! Roleblocks. I'm even more happy about at least one of these existing than the emperor. First of all, you know if your target took an action or not. Second of all, you prevent this game from going....too crazy!

Let's see...anything else to discuss? Ah, the Art. I hope no one here touches the scepters, murder = bad. Vases are great! Roleblock everyone! Literally. If we roleblock everyone forever, things will go well. And paintings. I'm good with paintings. Less so than the vases, because they'll have a lot less versatility. But if you think you are going to die, and you don't know who, I guess maybe a painting would be helpful. I'm pretty sure paintings aren't passive either, so..yeah.

Anyways, last thing, if you want to talk to me in PMs, then you PM me. I'm not touching those on my own.


Sha Lou yawned, looking around the stuffy room of grands. Of which...she was a part of, she supposed. Strange. It'd been months now, wearing the robes, guiding the emperor, not really caring about the history. Just living life and eating good food. Glancing around, she watched as a couple of clumsy people stumbled into each other, tripping over the uselessly flamboyant robes and tumbling to the floor. Sha actually snorted at the sight, these noble, glorious guides of all of politics, making a general mess of things. Almost poetic, she supposed. "Ey!" Sha shouted, pointing at some random person she'd never seen before ( @Mage Mage ). "You, eh...person! Yeh, who'r ya!" Her job done for the day, she yawned again, slumped back in her seat to hide from everyone else, and got ready for a boring day.

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Similarly to my thoughts on Tani, elements of this feel performative, although I like that the analysis focuses more on implications than that of The Unknown Order.

I would question, though, your reluctance to see vigilante kills used. Historically, vigilante kills are more accurate than the lynch, and we need eliminator deaths if we want to win.

8 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

orlok, you're playing this game? Nice to see ya, haven't played with you since well before 2 years ago. 
I finished my coding project (cheers and huzzahs!) so now I should be more clear in the next 24 hours or so to take a look at the rules and get my bearings. 

Ok I skimmed the rules and I have a question. Does the emperor know who they redirect to? @Matrim's Dice

It's been a while since I played properly , and I think you went on a mission at some point didn't you? 

7 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Rememberers are a less powerful Striker, especially since there will probably be few enough cycles for Strikers to use their abilities at every opportunity. I would not count on there being enough Rememberers for the Emperor and Glory Arbiter to keep each other safe if they claimed. I would expect the elims to have some way to roleblock/kill in addition to their normal kill.

Village ways of killing will be more accurate than nonvillage ways, and the game will likely be short enough that hoarding kill powers will be unhelpful.

I would be very, very surprised if the eliminators had a way to kill in addition to their normal kill. If we have 9-3-1, or even 10-2-1, we're not many cycles from an early LyLo, given the eliminator vote cancelling potential.

Edit: Vote Count:

TJ - (1): Ashwastaken
Danex - (1): Araris
Tani - (0): Orlok <1>
Mage - (1): Ed Venture
Ed Venture - (1): Mage
TJ - (1): Danex
The Unknown Order - (1): Orlok <2>

Edited by Orlok Tsubodai
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22 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

I'm unfamiliar with the new meta on this site, and so don't know current thinking on best practice for distribution with low player numbers. That said, we used to say 20-25%, or the square root of player numbers as a good rule of thumb for elim numbers. These give 2.6, 3.25, and 3.6 respectively. I think, as such, three eliminators is not unlikely.

I am too, so it's nice to see a pretty constructive post on elim percentage. 3 makes sense, but 2 could work if Matrim counted the Soul Forger as an elim.

23 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

I recall QFs and MRs traditionally have a much higher eliminator win rate than LGs, which I always attributed to a lack of time for analysis - I would be inclined to suggest that lower player numbers will only heighten this trend.

Yeah I read through a couple games, and it seems like elims have been winning a lot more recently.

 

annnnd 

4 hours ago, Danex said:

therefore
TJ
:P

I don’t want someone who hasn’t posted to die C1, so TJ.

 

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10 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Fairly surface level analysis here. The assertion that the Serial Killer would start with a double life is interesting, though. @The Unknown Order you rightly identify that this would make them stronger, which you argue as a reason for them to start with it. I'd be curious to hear why you think strengthening the Soul Forger is necessary, and your thoughts on the implications for game balance?

Because SKs are always quite weak. I've found that in the place where o started playing Social Deduction, Town of Salem, that the SK role had defense against mafia, other SKs, and vigilantes, but not werewolves, pirates, the jailor, or the lynch. So fairly protected. I also disagree with your earlier analysis slightly, I agree they would go for Warrior, unless they are fairly trusted and therefore are under danger of the elim kill, in which case they would go for Urchin.

18 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

It interests me that you consistently use language saying things are standard, even when you go on to acknowledge they're not - "although it is random". To me, it reads that you're trying to give the impression of analysing, without doing so.

You further also downplay the importance of the vote canceller for the eliminators. I don't think we should underestimate this for a moment, given it ensures the village lose every tie, and lylo can appear a cycle earlier.

I'm not going to quote the rest of your post - I think there's enough so far for me to retract on Tani and vote on The Unknown Order.

Well, they are standard. Standard roles, sometimes with a twist. If you had actually gone on to the next part, you would have seen me deviate from this pattern because those roles are not standard.

You overplay the soother in my opinion, although I didn't look into it that much in my original post. The elims having vote manipulation is customary, although not guaranteed. They also don't automatically make village lose a tie, since there is a guaranteed village rioter, a roleblocking role, and a roleblocking item, which should be fairly common. So the chances of the rioter canceling it out or the it getting roleblocked are decently high.

And that's omission to prove a point.

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