Long Game 81: Lasting Integrity?

[danex]

Just now, Araris Valerian said:

Exactly.

*confused*
"Not much point voting out someone who is going to die by default anyways."
but
when I voted him-
he wasnt-
wha??

[Araris Valerian]

How would you argue that your vote last turn was helpful to the village?

[Mat]

12 minutes ago, Danex said:

*asks*

your last read of me was mild vil iirc, so I'm curious to know what changed.

What changed was you being fairly hesitant to vote Mage either cycle

[danex]

4 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

How would you argue that your vote last turn was helpful to the village?

I would say that it was a poke vote on TJ to try and provoke discussion

and then I just wasn't online to change it

so not necessarily helpful, but definitely not malicious

Edited October 25, 2021 by Danex

[Araris Valerian]

1 minute ago, Danex said:

so not necessarily helpful, but definitely not malicious

That's kind of the elim mindset in a nutshell. 

Also, I would pretty strongly disagree that poke votes promote any discussion except about how poke votes fail to promote discussion, but that's besides the point.

[danex]

Just now, Araris Valerian said:

Also, I would pretty strongly disagree that poke votes promote any discussion except about how poke votes fail to promote discussion, but that's besides the point.

This coming from the Stab vote man himself? 

4 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

What changed was you being fairly hesitant to vote Mage either cycle

D1 i got offline before there were any votes on mage

and now I'm still making up my mind

also wow you are incredibly confident Mage is gonna flip elim aren't you

[Araris Valerian]

Just now, Danex said:

This coming from the Stab vote man himself? 

Yeah. I invented the things so that we wouldn't have to deal with poke votes anymore.

[Mat]

1 minute ago, Danex said:

also wow you are incredibly confident Mage is gonna flip elim aren't you

More than I should be, yes :P.

Just now, Araris Valerian said:

Yeah. I invented the things so that we wouldn't have to deal with poke votes anymore.

You have said before that you don't stab to promote discussion, you stab because you want to kill the person you're voting on  

[Araris Valerian]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

You have said before that you don't stab to promote discussion, you stab because you want to kill the person you're voting on

I certainly stab people when I am trying to kill them. I'm not sure I recall saying that I'm not trying to promote discussion though. Regardless, discussion comes from engaging with players in a way that gets them to give nuanced responses. Which poke voting most certainly doesn't, and stab voting can if employed correctly and with follow-up posts. Ultimately, I think a real threat of death (toward anyone, not just the player you are wanting to hear from) is what you need to get the kind of engagement that is most worth analyzing.

[danex]

mmk
I've reread D1 a few times
and I think I'm gonna go Mage
because my read of Mat is fairly solid vil
and he's probably better at this game then me
so if he's that unreasonably confident in the mage exe
I think i'm semi-confortable in going along with it

even if he's he's wrong and mage is vil
at least we'll have votes to analyze
and not wasted a cycle

second takeaway of my rereads
mat/araris definitely either v/v or e/e

Just now, Araris Valerian said:

Ultimately, I think a real threat of death (toward anyone, not just the player you are wanting to hear from) is what you need to get the kind of engagement that is most worth analyzing.

technically I did that by accident by not being online to move it
so does that make it better? =P

[Mat]

7 minutes ago, Danex said:

mmk
I've reread D1 a few times
and I think I'm gonna go Mage
because my read of Mat is fairly solid vil
and he's probably better at this game then me
so if he's that unreasonably confident in the mage exe
I think i'm semi-confortable in going along with it

fwiw I do not think this is a good reason to vote anyone, anytime :P. But you do you, and I would like to see an exe today.

7 minutes ago, Danex said:

second takeaway of my rereads
mat/araris definitely either v/v or e/e

...I cannot help but see this in accordance with Mage/Dannex/Araris as my elimmest reads lol

How did you come to this conclusion?

[danex]

4 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

How did you come to this conclusion?

Your interactions on page 3.

4 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

fwiw I do not think this is a good reason to vote anyone, anytime :P. But you do you, and I would like to see an exe today.

don't flatter yourself, it isn't the only reason =P
I too would like some sort of exe

Edited October 25, 2021 by Danex

[Mat]

4 minutes ago, Danex said:

Your interactions on page 3.

Ok sure

What about that specifically pinged you as us being aligned? I mean if we're v/v then we don't know that and if we're e/e then we couldn't have communicated in the doc. Everyone was on an equal non-communicative playing field at that point.

[Araris Valerian]

12 minutes ago, Danex said:

technically I did that by accident by not being online to move it
so does that make it better? =P

I think an elim is more likely to forget than a villager.

[danex]

Just now, Araris Valerian said:

I think an elim is more likely to forget than a villager.

uh ok
wouldn't an elim just intentionally not move? isn't that your whole point? why would an elim be more forgetful?
is araris not making much sense today or is it just me

4 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I mean if we're v/v then we don't know that and if we're e/e then we couldn't have communicated in the doc. Everyone was on an equal non-communicative playing field at that point.

oh true
k, nvm, disregard that assertion
i mean, I still sorta believe it to be true
but now it's just a gut read

[Araris Valerian]

Just now, Danex said:

uh ok
wouldn't an elim just intentionally not move? isn't that your whole point? why would an elim be more forgetful?
is araris not making much sense today or is it just me

Yes to the first two. I'll let everyone else judge on the last one. But I think we as people are more likely to forget things that aren't very important to us. So an elim that is happy to let things fall out as they may would be more likely to forget to check on things than a villager whose stake in the game depends on it.

[Mage]

If my math is correct (it probably isn't), then one of the elims is voting for me. I think there are 7 votes for me and 10 of us. Assuming I am vil (I believe this but you might not.) then that leaves only two people not voting me. With three eliminators one of them is voting me. You could argue that they jumped on the mage bandwagon to avoid suspicion, but then that would incriminate the person who most recently voted for me. Or someone who voted earlier when they saw it as inevitable. By this (most likely flawed) logic, I am not an eliminator.

Granted this is based on the assumption that I am not an eliminator which makes it circular reasoning.

And to win we probably need a kill today and there isn't really anyone else that everyone could get behind.

But do consider my logic. If at all possible I would rather not die.

[Mat]

1 minute ago, Araris Valerian said:

Yes to the first two. I'll let everyone else judge on the last one. But I think we as people are more likely to forget things that aren't very important to us. So an elim that is happy to let things fall out as they may would be more likely to forget to check on things than a villager whose stake in the game depends on it.

Depends on the person, I think. As elim, I'm personally more aware of my votes because I want to make sure they end up in the optimal spot. As a D1 villager it's a lot more 'lol whatever' for me  

1 minute ago, Mage said:

If my math is correct (it probably isn't), then one of the elims is voting for me. I think there are 7 votes for me and 10 of us. Assuming I am vil (I believe this but you might not.) then that leaves only two people not voting me. With three eliminators one of them is voting me. You could argue that they jumped on the mage bandwagon to avoid suspicion, but then that would incriminate the person who most recently voted for me. Or someone who voted earlier when they saw it as inevitable. By this (most likely flawed) logic, I am not an eliminator.

Granted this is based on the assumption that I am not an eliminator which makes it circular reasoning.

The math is correct if you're village, but I think there's an elim voting you regardless :P. But yeah that is circular reasoning which isn't that helpful.

[Mage]

5 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

The math is correct if you're village, but I think there's an elim voting you regardless :P. But yeah that is circular reasoning which isn't that helpful.

*extended sigh* yeah. I'm grasping at any logical argument that will spare my life. They are rather few and far between.

[The Unknown Ajah]

3 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Reads (Ordered):

• Mat
• TUO

If you want explanations for any of those, you just gotta ask  

I'm asking. 

[Mat]

Just now, The Unknown Order said:

I'm asking. 

Why I village read myself? Well, my GM PM is a big part of that

There was also me not knowing the elims couldn't communicate D1 until D2, that's pretty villagery

You're there by default, I guess? Like you'd be lightest village or Null+, technically. Everyone else is either more elimmy, more villagery, or more inactive.

[Azmine_king]

6 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Reads (Ordered):

• Mat
• ashwastaken
• Archer
• TUO
• Lahilt
• TJ
• Az
• Araris
• Danex
• Mage

If you want explanations for any of those, you just gotta ask  

Lahilt and I

 

6 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

So TUO, Tani, and Azmine all failed to consolidate, and all gave various reasons for not doing so. However, the fact remains that none of them placed their initial vote with intent to kill anyways, so the lack of consolidation doesn't really mean a whole lot. Unfortunately, I've played enough with Tani and TUO to know that they would probably do that as either villagers or elims. Not really sure about Azmine.

TJ is probably going to get booted by the filter. That makes me feel a little funny about Danex and Lahilt. Not much point voting out someone who is going to die by default anyways.

I'm going to give Mat some credit for sticking to his guns last cycle. Nothing doing on Archer or Ash unless Mage flips elim.

I'll vote Mage, since I honestly found them suspicious during C1 (and hence my vote then). If Mage flips elim, I'd probably pin one of Archer/Ash as elim. And Danex/Lahilt/Azmine as the other. I'll hold off on what I think of Mage flipping village, since we'll also get another NK before needing to vote again in that instance.

Woah there, that's placing a whole lot of significance on some crappy D1 votes

[Araris Valerian]

8 minutes ago, Azmine_king said:

Woah there, that's placing a whole lot of significance on some crappy D1 votes

Direct me towards a different cycle with better information and I'll be happy to try again.

[Mat]

29 minutes ago, Azmine_king said:

Lahilt and I

I guess I shoulda just explained from the start huh

You’re a weird case since Mage is pushing you rn, but that could be any kind  of IKYK. I guess you could get points for pushing Mage but idk your bussing meta. So null. Again this is all based on preflipping Mage and probably should be disregarded 

Lahilt just doesn’t have much content. They probably deserve to be lower but I like my elim reads enough to not.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Matrim's Dice

[Azmine_king]

14 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I guess I shoulda just explained from the start huh

You’re a weird case since Mage is pushing you rn, but that could be any kind  of IKYK. I guess you could get points for pushing Mage but idk your bussing meta. So null. Again this is all based on preflipping Mage and probably should be disregarded 

Lahilt just doesn’t have much content. They probably deserve to be lower but I like my elim reads enough to not.

Mmm, I don't like that explanation for either of us but mostly Lahilt

 

You only listed a negative and yet have him at an above null stance. I'm fine being null but at least there's potential town points I've gotten compared to many of those above me.