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Venli's Oath


Player22

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Sorry if this has already been brought up but the last couple lines from RoW chapter 115 ends with "...a distant femalen voice said in her mind... your words are now accepted". 

 

The "femalen" part is what got my attention on this reread.

Who is it that accepted her oath? Kind of feels like Eshonai but I have no idea. I can't keep up with all the lore.

 

And I apologize if this has been answered or theorized about before but just looking for WoBs or digging through the arcanum kind of ruins the magic for me.

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7 hours ago, Player22 said:

That's what I assumed on my first read but the "femalen" part caught my attention on the second. Might be looking into it too much.

That just means Cultivation is not currently in mateform, which makes sense for a widow.

Edited by mathiau
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We see that Odium can appear as a singer or human to different people, so if it's Cultivation, it could just be her appearing as a femalen (besides, she's neither human nor singer but appears as a human to Dalinar anyway).

The more interesting part of the quote to me has been this part:

Quote

A distant sensation struck her, a femalen voice, so very far away—but thrumming with the pure rhythm of Roshar.

Not just a pure tone, the pure rhythm. No idea what it might imply, but it's interesting to me.

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On 06/10/2021 at 6:04 PM, Player22 said:

That's what I assumed on my first read but the "femalen" part caught my attention on the second. Might be looking into it too much.

Within listener culture they refer to genders as malen and femalen, so to her perception it was a feminine voice that she assumed as femalen

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/8/2021 at 2:33 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

We see that Odium can appear as a singer or human to different people, so if it's Cultivation, it could just be her appearing as a femalen (besides, she's neither human nor singer but appears as a human to Dalinar anyway).

The more interesting part of the quote to me has been this part:

Not just a pure tone, the pure rhythm. No idea what it might imply, but it's interesting to me.

Sorry to bump this thread so much later, but I'm currently mid-obsession over the pure tones/pure rhythm(s) of Roshar.

Thank you for pointing this out! 

Prior to RoW, I feel like there wasn't a ton of obvious foreshadowing about these pure tones. However, I'm getting lucky during my rereads and am finding some tiny clues.

Thanks again!

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On 10/9/2021 at 0:03 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Not just a pure tone, the pure rhythm. No idea what it might imply, but it's interesting to me.

The pure Rhythm i thought simply implies that it was one of the three Pure Rhythms of Roshar, that she heard Cultivations Rhythm or something.

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On 9.10.2021 at 3:07 AM, LordFlea said:

Within listener culture they refer to genders as malen and femalen, so to her perception it was a feminine voice that she assumed as femalen

Indeed. It would be strange if the changes between, for example, war form and nimble form were without difference in the voices. It is just natural to assume that a genetically female Singer's voice would be described as femalen, as she would be unlikely to be in mate form.

4 hours ago, Aon Tia said:

The pure Rhythm i thought simply implies that it was one of the three Pure Rhythms of Roshar, that she heard Cultivations Rhythm or something.

Wait, I was always under the impression that there were three pure tones of Roshar with each corresponding to a Shard. And while there is no such thing as a "tone of war", it being a harmonic, the rhythms combine. So there should be the "Rhythm of Roshar" as a combination of the three Shardic rhythms, but not a pure tone.

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19 hours ago, Aon Tia said:

The pure Rhythm i thought simply implies that it was one of the three Pure Rhythms of Roshar, that she heard Cultivations Rhythm or something.

The odd thing is that it says the pure rhythm, as if it's the sole one, not a pure rhythm like you'd expect if it meant one of three.

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14 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

The odd thing is that it says the pure rhythm, as if it's the sole one, not a pure rhythm like you'd expect if it meant one of three.

Why? There is a Rhythm of War. stemming from Odium's and Honor's rhythm, but it is a distinct single rhythm. As three Shards are invested on Roshar, they should form a common rhythm, which one may call Rhythm of Roshar.

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1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Why? There is a Rhythm of War. stemming from Odium's and Honor's rhythm, but it is a distinct single rhythm. As three Shards are invested on Roshar, they should form a common rhythm, which one may call Rhythm of Roshar.

I don't think either the Rhythm of War, or of the Tower, were ever descibed as 'Pure'

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1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Why? There is a Rhythm of War. stemming from Odium's and Honor's rhythm, but it is a distinct single rhythm. As three Shards are invested on Roshar, they should form a common rhythm, which one may call Rhythm of Roshar.

Sure, but that would still raise the question of why the voice is speaking to that combined rhythm, if so. 

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On 10/31/2021 at 4:25 AM, Oltux72 said:

Presumably because Ishar has implanted the pact that enforces the Radiant oaths into Roshar.

Why would Venli be the only one to hear the voice, if so? Even Eshonai doesn't. (Setting aside the question of whether Ishar did anything magic with the oaths, which I still don't believe.)

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1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Why would Venli be the only one to hear the voice, if so? Even Eshonai doesn't.

Venli is the only Singer to have sworn a second ideal. Others at least sense something. How else would the Stormfather know that something has been accepted.

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

(Setting aside the question of whether Ishar did anything magic with the oaths, which I still don't believe.)

How else would you explain "Ishar's Knights"?

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1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

Venli is the only Singer to have sworn a second ideal.

Why would it only be a singer that would hear this voice, and only on the Second Ideal? (And Eshonai does say somethat that sounds pretty much exactly like the Second Ideal of her order.)

Quote

Others at least sense something

Most of the time they actually don't, some (but not all) of Kal's Ideals and Lopen's Ideals get the SF, Bondsmiths get their spren, and Venli's Second gets the femalen voice. I believe that's about it, besides Shallan falling into Shadesmar that one time. 

5 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

How else would the Stormfather know that something has been accepted.

Dude's the closest thing left to the Shard of Honor (including not-quite-but-sort-of omnipresence), and a spren of Connection as well. Him being able to sense that the bond deepened makes sense to me, especially with the Radiant spren being largely of Honor (along with Cultivation, of course). 

7 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

How else would you explain "Ishar's Knights"?

Him establishing the organization. As we see in Nohadon's vision, there's nothing about Surgebinders inherently making them helpful and preservative, and they can have the exact opposite effect. And as we see with the Skybreakers, the Ideals don't stop them from straight up going over to Odium, even. But an organization that polices things and keeps a steady presence can, so it makes more sense to me for that to be what Ishar established (especially as he had to threaten them into it, which wouldn't make sense for the Ideals, but would make sense for a voluntary organization). 

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