Brgst13

Just noticed this in Secret History

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Apparently the Ire have visited Roshar or have dealt with those who have, because they seem to have an Alerter fabrial to look for Threnodite Shades.  It does not, however, notice Kelsier.  Is it specific to Threnodite investiture?  Assuming spren cannot leave Roshar, were they able to power it with the Dor?  Did they trap a seon?  So many questions!

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27 minutes ago, Brgst13 said:

Apparently the Ire have visited Roshar or have dealt with those who have,

This is an extremely heretical question, but are we sure of source and destination here? How old is the Ire?

27 minutes ago, Brgst13 said:

because they seem to have an Alerter fabrial to look for Threnodite Shades.  It does not, however, notice Kelsier.  Is it specific to Threnodite investiture?

That assumption is almost unavoidable.

27 minutes ago, Brgst13 said:

  Assuming spren cannot leave Roshar, were they able to power it with the Dor?  Did they trap a seon?  So many questions!

They have other magotechnical items that cannot be powered by a Seon, so that is unlikely to be the case. The Dor is the simplest explanatio, as they have that pipeline running.

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1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

This is an extremely heretical question, but are we sure of source and destination here? How old is the Ire?

It is not for sure, but when you have a World hopping group who have technology that appears identical to technology from a world that they did not originate from, and no other world seems to have this technology or a magic system that is likely to produce such, it is most likely that they got the technology from that world.

In addition, Brandon has described fabrials as a Rosharan magic system.

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8 hours ago, Brgst13 said:

Apparently the Ire have visited Roshar or have dealt with those who have, because they seem to have an Alerter fabrial to look for Threnodite Shades.

I don’t think the Ire could have a fabrial. They couldn’t have gotten it to Scadrial. To get a fabrial off Roshar, you need to get a spren off Roshar, and while it’s been hinted that this is a thing people will figure out how to do in the future, it’s a plot point right now that they can’t do that yet.

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3 hours ago, RedBlue said:

I don’t think the Ire could have a fabrial. They couldn’t have gotten it to Scadrial. To get a fabrial off Roshar, you need to get a spren off Roshar, and while it’s been hinted that this is a thing people will figure out how to do in the future, it’s a plot point right now that they can’t do that yet.

WoB is that there are a few Spren on Scadrial(specifically in Shadesmar) and if anyone could get a Spren there, im willing to bet it would be the Ire.

 
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Posted (edited)

I was going to say the device could be made by Aons, we do see Aon light sources in Elantris so we know Aon devices are a thing, but the Ire doesn't seem to have discovered how to use Aons off Sel from what little we see of them in Secret History and Stormlight. They don't appear to be using any program (Investiture System) but rather source codes (Connection, Fortune, raw Investiture storage) [sorry if my computer metaphor doesn't work!] but a warning system seems a bit too complex. And Shade specific warning system? It could be based off of the original Threnodite Investiture system itself. But the device itself looks very much like a Rosharan fabrial:

Quote

a larger chamber where a small group of guards were setting up a strange device. A large yellow gemstone the size of Kelsier’s fist shone in the center, glowing even more brightly than the walls. That gem was surrounded by a lattice of golden metal holding it in place. All told, it was the size of a desk clock.

From Rysn's interlude in WoK, we know that alerter fabrials use heliodors. Seems strange though. If the Ire had really figured out how to take spren off world, would they really only concern themselves with fabrials? They would take Shardblades and Shardplates, maybe even kidnap Nahel Bond spren. I'm guessing, they somehow figured out an alternative to spren for fabrials. Investiture keyed a certain way somehow or other Cognitive entities perhaps? Seons apparently can be taken off-world, Shades as well, from the broadsheets in era 2.

Edit: there are many interesting things in Secret History upon rereads. There's those... attention redirection? wards that could even work on Shards and that it seemed like from an exchange between the Ire members that only one of them could make and is "an exacting art", a different Invested Art perhaps. There was also the interesting fact that Kelsier was still Connected to Ruin after Ascending to Preservation, which could potentially be very interesting.

Edited by Honorless
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The Ire are involved in the things on Roshar. The lighthouse keeper Riino is an Ire, and we have a WOB about it:

Quote

Questioner

Why did the Elantrians came to Roshar in the first place? Because the question came up after I reread Elantris, so...

Brandon Sanderson

Are you talking about... specifically... the old ones? Yeah, why were they on Roshar? So, those specific individuals - the Ire, as we call them - are a group of Elantrians that are not representing all Elantrians. They were there. The one you've met is there for a specific reason. The Ire are involved there. They're mostly... where you've seen them, is on Scadrial so far, but they're interested in Roshar. You are talking about the lighthouse keeper, I assume? So, the lighthouse keeper, wouldn't... would be counted, I guess, as one of the Ire and is there for a specific purpose, but it is not related to their general purpose, that they're trying to achieve.

How's that for being vague? I'm sorry.

ICon 2019 (Oct. 15, 2019)

Nevertheless, it might not be a fabrial in the strict sense, but we can be pretty sure that Rosharans would call it a fabrial either way :D

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What I find really interesting is that since Secret History takes place nearly 300 years before the Stormlight Archive starts, this Alerter technology was most likely not even inspired by fabrials on Roshar. Unless the Ire interacted with the Knights Radiant before the Recreance enough to be able to find out how the ancient fabrials such as the Regrowth and Urithiru fabrials worked and go recreate it with something AonDor powered.

This makes me wonder if such technology using gemstones and cages could be recreated with even more magic systems. Using Breath in a gemstone perhaps?

 

On 03/10/2021 at 6:36 AM, Honorless said:

Edit: there are many interesting things in Secret History upon rereads. There's those... attention redirection? wards that could even work on Shards and that it seemed like from an exchange between the Ire members that only one of them could make and is "an exacting art", a different Invested Art perhaps. There was also the interesting fact that Kelsier was still Connected to Ruin after Ascending to Preservation, which could potentially be very interesting.

These attention redirection wards fascinate me! The fact that it affects even shards is incredible! I think the fact that it's so very exacting is what allows it to affect even Shards. Something with a more broad function may not have the power to affect Shards.

Edited by AutonomousJoy
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On 11/22/2021 at 10:17 PM, AutonomousJoy said:

What I find really interesting is that since Secret History takes place nearly 300 years before the Stormlight Archive starts, this Alerter technology was most likely not even inspired by fabrials on Roshar. Unless the Ire interacted with the Knights Radiant before the Recreance enough to be able to find out how the ancient fabrials such as the Regrowth and Urithiru fabrials worked and go recreate it with something AonDor powered.

This makes me wonder if such technology using gemstones and cages could be recreated with even more magic systems. Using Breath in a gemstone perhaps?

 

These attention redirection wards fascinate me! The fact that it affects even shards is incredible! I think the fact that it's so very exacting is what allows it to affect even Shards. Something with a more broad function may not have the power to affect Shards.

i have a feeling that whatever the Shard-shielding technology those Ire people have, they stole/figure out that from Hoid, or at least interaction with Hoid made them realize it's possible, he's still the only character that can do this consistently that we know of.

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On 11/25/2021 at 9:33 AM, TrulyTragic said:

i have a feeling that whatever the Shard-shielding technology those Ire people have, they stole/figure out that from Hoid, or at least interaction with Hoid made them realize it's possible, he's still the only character that can do this consistently that we know of.

I think they could've figured it out on their own. Khriss said that they'd been researching shards and whatnot for longer than she had, and knew more than she did. And Khriss knows more than Hoid:

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Is Hoid the most knowledgeable about what's going on in the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, Khriss is the most aware by a long shot. Nazh knows a lot as well. Hoid might know more than Nazh but he is pretty in the know as well so it's close.

Words of Radiance Houston signing (March 11, 2014)

So they could've figured it out on their own.

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